Who won't settle for anything less than legal?

[JennyMominRI]

Well here is proff of what we all face everyday.

"joeyrulesall says:

I read all the new posts not by section , just by clicking new posts. I dont
care what he does privatley im just sickened that he has to pick a childrens
theme park to marry a man. I believe in protecting children from sick things ,
not stirring!"

Atleast the mods over on the wedding board cleared it up. It just makes me sick. Atleast we have friends on the other boards looking out for us!

And this is why Separate But Equal,IE. civil unions not marriage is
unnacceptable...GWB and his ilk don't get to claim marriage for the religious only,or the morally acceptable .You deserve the SAME rights as everyone else,and not a separate drinking fountain..Civil Unions give people that hate you one more thing to hold over your head and claim that they are better then you,that their relationship is somehow,better and more special than yours.

 

[Ziva]

P.s. You can see some of our ceremony pics here... and i will posting more in the "Ceremony" thread in this board tonight.

Our Ceremony

Post where the rest of the pics are

Beautiful pics, your both just gorgeous. Congrats on celebrating 7 years, hope you have many more together!

 

[SeattleRedBear]

And this is why Serperate But Equal (ie, civil unions not marriage) is unnacceptable...GWB and his ilk don't get to claim marriage for the religious only,or the morally acceptable .You deserve the SAME rights as everyone else,and not a seperate drinking fountain..Civil Unions give people that hate you one more thing to hold over your head and claim that they are better then you,that their relationship is somehow,better and more special than yours.

Jenny -- Many, many thanks for these strong and articulate words. My feelings exactly.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny -- Many, many thanks for these strong and articulate words. My feelings exactly.

Thanks . I'm not gay but I've lived with AIDS for 15 years. As such I have seen firsthand the flat out discrimination that gay people deal with on a daily basis,and it sickens me. I have seen PWA's(people with AIDS) denied their partners as they died..I have seen a couple of them lose homes etc,because they don't have any legal protections..I've seen more than a few who died alone, because their family disowned them. I really belive the AIDS epidemic in this country is in part caused by homophobia. I was infected by my husband who is bisexual..His family tells other that he got AIDS from IV drug use..They would rather have a drug abusing son than a gay/bisexual son. It will happen to you.Some day you will have the same rights as everyone else..Some day this country will look back with shame,at the way they treated gay people,in much the same way we look back at the way we treated NA's and black people.

 

[Saxton]

Jenny - you are right on the mark with your posts. Separate but equal does not exist and history has proven that fact. Separate yes, but there was never any equality or the civil rights movement wouldn't have taken on such force. I can see that if the conservatives somehow would 'allow' civil unions it would be deemed a sub-standard relationship with limited rights. But realistically I doubt that it will ever happen and true marriage is just a dream. Here's something interesting that I just read from Coretta Scott King, who I believe spoke with a quiet dignity and courage:

"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," Coretta Scott King said at the 25th anniversary luncheon for Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions."
"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people, but I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.' I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people."

And I believe that one line - "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" sums it all up. She understood what discrimination was, she experienced it first hand.

Eric - great photos!!! And I read your posts on the other thread. I posted on one about a week ago but I think that whole thread was deleted (thankfully!). It always amazes how many narrow minded people there really are.

 

[Viki]

This June Gwen and I will be "married" twenty years, but with no ceremony to mark our committment to each other. Ironically, I've presided at well over twenty marriages, gay and straight, legal and not so much. We'll wait until it's legal where we live. In the meantime we've raised two children and three dogs.

And, btw, it's true that there is nothing inherently religious about marriage - unless you are RC, in which case it is viewed as a sacrament (a ritual religious action to which there is a specific promise attached). Luther was clear that weddings are civil matters, the rules of which are dictated by the state.

 

[hematite153]

For us, marriage is predominantly a religious covenant. However, the legal component of civil marriage also has numerous implications for many. (In fact, we know a straight couple who chose to marry religiously but delay the civil filing until after it had been legalized for same-sex couples as well.)

From my perspective, the GLBT community is fighting on two fronts--religious and civil. The battle for religious marriage takes place within each religion rather than through imposition from the state. Some people feel more strongly about one than the other and tend to discount the other. However, I feel that both struggles are necessary.

We were married in our Christian church (which has been performing same-sex marriages for 13 years) in Canada. The opportunity to celebrate with our friends, family, church community and to have our commitment legally recognized feels so much like a basic human right that I feel deeply for those without these choices.

(I know that many of you have decided not to travel for marriage. However, if there are lurkers who want information you are welcome to send me a pm.)

 

[Empare]

Weddings don't have to be religious though. I am happily married to a wonderful man. I have always been more of a pagan type of person so, that's how my wedding went. I was married outside in a beautiful meadow. My family all said quotes from some of my favorite stories, including one from winnie the pooh. I am very thankful that I was able to marry the one I love. My husband's parents are VERY religious and difficult. It took them a long time to actually decide to come to the wedding! Can you believe that? They were going to miss the wedding of their only son just because we were not getting married in a church! I'm sure they would never talk to me again if they found out I was bi. I believe ALL relationships should be treated with respect and kindness.

 

[mrsdisneyfan]

I would like to make a comment on this thread and if it comes out wrong please forgive me. I am 35 years old, married and straight. I feel that gays not being able to legally marry is absurd.

I cannot image the feelings of some one who is in a loving relationship for 1 2 or 20 years and is told they cannot be in a hospital room with thier loved one. Not having any say in medical or financial matters just because you are gay. The thought of my MIL having a say over my husbands well being, God forbid anything ever happened to him, and me not being consulted makes me sick.

I fully support EQUAL rights when it comes to marriage and I mean the exact as any straight couple.

And if I hear the phrase "slippery slope" one more time when this is publicly discussed I think I may commit violence.

I just don't understand the people who are against this. The ones who quote the bible bother me the most. (I am a Christian.) What difference does it make to anybody except the ones getting married. Your life was no affected when I got married and my life is not going to be affected when you get married. So why does anybody feel threatened by this.

I hope every day that this injustice is fixed.

Again, if this seems like a big worthless ramble I apologize but I feel very strongly.

 

[ChrizJen]

Again, if this seems like a big worthless ramble I apologize but I feel very strongly.

mrsdisneyfan: Not worthless at all! It's very encouraging to know that despite what our "leaders" would have us believe, there really are straight people in our nation who support our rights! They would so like us to think that the majority of Americans are opposed to equal rights. I think that it's more the other way around in actuality. And when people like yourself speak out, it really means something!

Thanks for your comments!
-Christal

 

[airhead]

We didn't need a piece of paper to make that day important. Neither of us has any desire(or need) to "get legal". My philosophy is,if it ain't broke,don't fix it!

 

[iankh]

We didn't need a piece of paper to make that day important. Neither of us has any desire(or need) to "get legal". My philosophy is,if it ain't broke,don't fix it!

While I can certainly see your point of view, considering that I and hisselfness have been together for 19 years with out either a ceremony or a piece of paper, that piece of paper is the golden ticket to a vertibable magic kingdom of legal rights and other benefits.

 

[SteeleTig]

Ava and I are registered domestic partners in NYC, we have no desire for a ceremony that has no legal standing... but the second it becomes legal we will be first in line to be married.

 

[wallyb]

My partner Paul and I got legally "married" last summer after being together for 23 years not "Leagal"

I really wasn’t that into the idea of needing that piece of paper to justify our being a couple. After all I knew straight couples that could not of been less married and had all the trappings - religious ceremonie and all.

I think real marriage (commitment) happens in your head - and heart.
Papers don’t make it “real”. Some dude in a funny frock giving you his blessing don’t make it real.

But that said - once MA said we could married and get all the same legal rights - we decide to go for it before our governor figured a way to stop it. If Paul ever had to go into the hospital I don’t want some nurse stopping me because I’m not family.

What I did not, and still don’t understand is why we’re suppose to be fine with Civil Unions. Separate IS NOT equal.
Why would you except being less than. A marrage with a caveat.

Jenny thank for your GREAT eloquent words on this topic.

 

[majortom]

Hopefully soon if Hillary wins, or not with this newest Supreme Court Judge.

I just want to remind you that Hillary's husband not only did not veto the Defense of Marriage Act, nor let if become law without his signature (as most laws do), but signed it and then advertised that he had done so on Christian radio stations while running for re-election.

He also took an Executive Order banning gays and lesbians from serving in our military and made it a Federal Law (much harder to change).

I am not sure that Hillary will be that different.

Now back to our original topic:

I also have no interest in anything that is less than legal marriage. Howard Dean's Civil Unions in Vermont are essentially meaningless as there is no case to even force recognition of them under Full Faith and Credit.

This was an issue between me and my ex-Boy Friend. He felt that having a commitment ceremony was important and I did not (we broke up after seven years together over other issues).

/carmi

 

[majortom]

Regarding meat and dairy.This comes from a verse in the bible about not cooking a calf in his mothers milk..IT would be cruel to an animal to cook it's young in the milk that is meant to nurture it.

Your post was very accurate, with this one exception. The origin of the prohibition on mixing dairy and meat comes from a desire to separate from the pagan practices in the area. A common pagan fertility rite was to seethe a calf in its mother's milk. It was part of a number of pagan rituals that Judaism bans (homosexual temple prostitutes are another - read the verse in context and it is Leviticus is not talking about loving gay relationships).

It has always bothered me when people have tried to explain the laws of kashrut as health codes.

One way of doing this is by taking Kosher laws,which ARE moral laws and turning them into something else..Something that's no longer valid like food safety issues.. It's too bad..There was no need to change the meaning or reasoning for Kosher laws,as non-Jews were never expected to follow them in the first place.

Agreed. I will note though that among the Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noah (among only rules in the Hebrew bible that apply to non-Jews) is a law that covers animal cruelty (prohibits eating the flesh of a live animal).

/carmi

 

[iankh]

Your post was very accurate, with this one exception. The origin of the prohibition on mixing dairy and meat comes from a desire to separate from the pagan practices in the area. A common pagan fertility rite was to seethe a calf in its mother's milk. It was part of a number of pagan rituals that Judaism bans (homosexual temple prostitutes are another - read the verse in context and it is Leviticus is not talking about loving gay relationships).

It has always bothered me when people have tried to explain the laws of kashrut as health codes.



Agreed. I will note though that among the Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noah (among only rules in the Hebrew bible that apply to non-Jews) is a law that covers animal cruelty (prohibits eating the flesh of a live animal).

/carmi

This is probably OT, but all I have to say is WOW! And that's a "wow' of appreciation. I wouid have never expected to read something like this on these boards, and quite accurate too. The 7 commandments, haven't heard anyone refer to them since my days as a yeshiva boy!

 

[majortom]

This is probably OT, but all I have to say is WOW! And that's a "wow' of appreciation. I wouid have never expected to read something like this on these boards, and quite accurate too. The 7 commandments, haven't heard anyone refer to them since my days as a yeshiva boy!

Thirteen years of Solomon Schechter and six summers of Camp Ramah in Wisconsin (four as a camper, 2 as staff) and one summer of Ramah Israel Seminar, paid off.

/carmi

 

[bubie2.5]

I'm following the "Never getting married" thread in th CB. It's interesting that the "benefits" of marriage they mention are the same ones we've been told to "just get a lawyer to draft you something".link

 

[majortom]

I'm following the "Never getting married" thread in th CB. It's interesting that the "benefits" of marriage they mention are the same ones we've been told to "just get a lawyer to draft you something".link

I decided that I needed to correct a few misconceptions. Given that most of the over 1,400 benefits of marriage can be had only by marriage, I thought that some of those people needed education.

/carmi