Who do you feel should receive the 2020 dues credit- buyer or seller?

[pangyal]

Hi all!

I’d love to gauge the general feeling of the group here regarding this issue. I am obviously personally benefitting on my contracts from the credit given for the 2020 dues, and am very happy with that! However, I am unsure about what is fair when it comes to buying. We are closing on a resale Riviera contract, and one of the line items (underneath the amount for 2021 dues paid in full at time of closing) is a reimbursement of the credit amount to the sellers for the 2020 dues. There are some, but not all, 2020 points on the contract (December UY). However, this was not mentioned in any of the contract paperwork prior to today. As a seller, I would obviously like to have as much back in my bank account as possible, but as a buyer, I feel that this should have been made a part of the negotiation and initial contract.

What do you all think is fair in this situation?

And thank you !

 

[pkrieger2287]

That's a tricky one... I would definitely defer to whatever the closing company is saying. They are the experts.

 

[starry_solo]

It's negotiable

 

[CookieandOatmeal]

If you're not paying any dues on the 2020 points, I would say that the credit should go back to the owners.

 

[sethschroeder]

Contract should state the price. Not sure why people worry about the credit it's not a refund its simply a 2021 MF adjustment.

If you are paying the MF then your payment is smaller.

Redding your post I would simply go based on whoever pays the 2021 MFs in my mind.

 

[Sandisw]

I think it should have been discussed. This is a very unique situation since normally any credit would go in the capital reserves budget and neither buyer or seller would get a credit like this,

Even a tax credit is typically small that it’s not usually worried about. If the seller paid the 2020 dues and since you have not yet closed the contract, I do think it is fair for them to get it, especially if what you agreed to pay were 2021 MFs.

Since the credit did not reduce what those MFs actually are...it is really like a prepayment on the part of the current owner of that bill.

For example, I put an extra $500 on my account in 2020 to reduce what I actually had to pay for my 2021 bill for BLT when it came, I see this the same way.

Good luck!

 

[Lorana]

I can see the argument both ways. If the seller paid the 2020 dues, the argument could be made they should get the credit.

However if you had closed on this contract at the end of 2020, and paid the 2021 dues directly yourself, the credit would be yours. (As I closed a contract in early December I can say with certainty that this is true). So I see the argument for you getting the credit. I’ll note, though,
that brokers I’ve spoken to at DVCstore.com and DVCResaleMarket.com all pushback on this saying the seller should get the credit.

at the very least it’s a point of negotiation, since the seller did pay less for MFs in 2021.

 

[pangyal]

Thanks everyone! That’s exactly it, that I do see it both ways and am really not sure what to do. I’m mostly a bit annoyed that this was just included on the closing statement without anyone consulting us during the actual contract negotiations last month. I feel that the more appropriate time to determine who gets the credit would have been when we had the final contract drawn up, before it was sent to ROFR, not as an assumed charge to the buyer on the closing statement. There is no mention of it on the contract, only that the buyer starts paying the annual MFs as of 2021.

For what it’s worth, I emailed the closing agent. She had no idea what I was referring to or was concerned about. She punted me to the broker, who proceeded to tell me that “per the contract, the buyer’s first annual dues payment starts in 2021”...so not very helpful there either.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

As someone with no skin in the game (never bought or sold resale), the credit is for overpayment of 2020 dues. So, whoever paid 2020 dues is entitled to the credit / refund.

To me, you would not be paying full 2021 dues (which is what you agreed to) if you receive the credit.

 

[ziravan]

Hi all!

I’d love to gauge the general feeling of the group here regarding this issue. I am obviously personally benefitting on my contracts from the credit given for the 2020 dues, and am very happy with that! However, I am unsure about what is fair when it comes to buying. We are closing on a resale Riviera contract, and one of the line items (underneath the amount for 2021 dues paid in full at time of closing) is a reimbursement of the credit amount to the sellers for the 2020 dues. There are some, but not all, 2020 points on the contract (December UY). However, this was not mentioned in any of the contract paperwork prior to today. As a seller, I would obviously like to have as much back in my bank account as possible, but as a buyer, I feel that this should have been made a part of the negotiation and initial contract.

What do you all think is fair in this situation?

And thank you !

It’s a credit for 2020 dues. Whom ever paid those dues is entitled to the credit.

Why would someone responsible for 2021 dues get a credit for things that happened in 2020? Unless they’re the same person?

If your boss is giving out a bonus for the project your team completed 8 months ago, is the person hired 2 weeks ago entitled to one?

The hardship being addressed by the credit (reduced services, availability, etc) was experienced by the owners of the 2020 points. That said the OP said they were getting some of those points. The key question then is are they paying the dues on those points.

The frustration of it being added in is a thing - I get it. But it’s a late occurring event and they probably thought it was obvious and not a point of discussion. That’s how I would view it if I had paid the 2020 dues.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Since the credit is given due to the resort closure which was caused by COVID-19 in 2020 then whoever owned the contract during that time and paid the 2020 dues should receive credit.

Imo a current buyer wanting to receive the credit is just being greedy. Unless of course the buyer also paid 2020 dues then the buyer should receive the credit and in that case the seller is just being greedy.

in my case I sold my contract and I received the credit as a reimbursement from the buyer.

 

[pangyal]

Yes- thank you so much to both of the two posts above. You’re completely right when I look at it that way. I’ll let the closing agent know that I’m agreeable to paying it.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Hi all!

I’d love to gauge the general feeling of the group here regarding this issue. I am obviously personally benefitting on my contracts from the credit given for the 2020 dues, and am very happy with that! However, I am unsure about what is fair when it comes to buying. We are closing on a resale Riviera contract, and one of the line items (underneath the amount for 2021 dues paid in full at time of closing) is a reimbursement of the credit amount to the sellers for the 2020 dues. There are some, but not all, 2020 points on the contract (December UY). However, this was not mentioned in any of the contract paperwork prior to today. As a seller, I would obviously like to have as much back in my bank account as possible, but as a buyer, I feel that this should have been made a part of the negotiation and initial contract.

What do you all think is fair in this situation?

And thank you !

Everything is negotiable. I would tell them that if you are going to pay the 2021 MFs, then you are paying the fees that have been outlined by DVC (which is the MFs minus the "refund"). Asking for the refund just feels like nickel and dime'ing. This is something that definitely should have been discussed and it feels like they are trying to slip it in.

I guess the way I'm looking at it is you are closing in 2021. The 2021 MFs have been stipulated by DVC and paid by the seller. You should pay that amount if you are going to pay 2021 MFs to the seller. You wrote "There is no mention of it on the contract, only that the buyer starts paying the annual MFs as of 2021". Bingo!! Again, DVC released what those 2021 MFs are. Your contract says you will pay those, not those plus some "refund" that stems from last year.

 

[Lorana]

As someone with no skin in the game (never bought or sold resale), the credit is for overpayment of 2020 dues. So, whoever paid 2020 dues is entitled to the credit / refund.

Since the credit is given due to the resort closure which was caused by COVID-19 in 2020 then whoever owned the contract during that time and paid the 2020 dues should receive credit.

I don’t disagree that it’s fair for the seller to get the credit, because it IS supposed to be a refund of 2020 dues paid, just applied to 2021 MFs. But I’ll just note that this is not how Disney sees it when it comes to resale contracts. Whomever pays the 2021 dues gets the credit, regardless of whether or not they paid the 2020 dues.

Now if you bought direct, however, your credit is prorated based on the amount of 2020 dues you paid.

 

[pangyal]

While I do think that our liability should be exactly what is written in the contract; i.e., the amount charged for 2021 MFs and nothing more, I think that the “right” thing to do is to refund the sellers the credit. I’m not happy with how it was handled, and legally I don’t think it would hold up, but I’m not sure I am inclined to be a jerk about it and penalize the sellers.

 

[Bruggok]

I just purchased a resale in Dec. DVCRM took the full non-rebated 2021 dues from me, so the seller got it. Since the seller paid 2020 dues and the contract had 2020 points, I didn't fight them on it. Also their argument would have been that the seller technically paid 2021 dues and are just getting reimbursed by the buyer, hence they got the rebate.

For those who didn't already know, this demonstrates again that brokers work for the seller. Don't ever expect brokers to go to bat for you; you have to fight for what is rightfully yours per contract framework.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

While I do think that our liability should be exactly what is written in the contract; i.e., the amount charged for 2021 MFs and nothing more, I think that the “right” thing to do is to refund the sellers the credit. I’m not happy with how it was handled, and legally I don’t think it would hold up, but I’m not sure I am inclined to be a jerk about it and penalize the sellers.

Yeah, I see both sides. I am like you and always fall on the side of not wanting to be a jerk about things. Since the seller did pay the fees in 2020, I absolutely see the side where they would get the "refund". But it seems really shady that no one brought it up and just added it in. The broker works for the seller, so I understand how they would explain it away as no big deal. The broker just wants to get to closing and get it done. And of course the broker wants that "refund" in the contract because I am assuming they will get a commission from it if it's in the total sale price. Again, it feels like the seller is nickel and dime'ing you. Based on the wording of your contract, you absolutely have the right to go back to them and negotiate that if you want to.

At this point, however, I would probably just go through with the sale. It probably isn't worth the hassle. Good luck!!

 

[4luv2cdisney]

I don’t disagree that it’s fair for the seller to get the credit, because it IS supposed to be a refund of 2020 dues paid, just applied to 2021 MFs. But I’ll just note that this is not how Disney sees it when it comes to resale contracts. Whomever pays the 2021 dues gets the credit, regardless of whether or not they paid the 2020 dues.

Now if you bought direct, however, your credit is prorated based on the amount of 2020 dues you paid.

That's just the easiest thing for DVC to do. They don't care what is right or fair. It keeps them out of the resale transaction.

Plus DVC sees dues differently than the typical resale seller / buyer do. In resale, dues are often associated with points recieved. To DVC, dues are a calendar year membership.

So, yeah, I'm sure they want nothing to do with these transactions. And I'm sure these refunds could have been negotiated to/from either party, and as long as both sides are happy, it doesn't matter.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t disagree that it’s fair for the seller to get the credit, because it IS supposed to be a refund of 2020 dues paid, just applied to 2021 MFs. But I’ll just note that this is not how Disney sees it when it comes to resale contracts. Whomever pays the 2021 dues gets the credit, regardless of whether or not they paid the 2020 dues.

Now if you bought direct, however, your credit is prorated based on the amount of 2020 dues you paid.

To be fair, it’s given by Disney to the current owner of the contract after a resaleSo, if by the time the credit was issued, the current t owner was a new owner, then They got it because that is where the bill went.

For example, I sold BWV in late June. Paid the 2020 dues even though buyer got more than half the points. Buyer was responsible for paying 2021 dues forward

Because I wasn’t owner anymore, they got the credit.

I think it’s important to remember that the credit is not a reduction of 2021 dues being billed . Those were billed in full.

Of course, it is still something that a current buyer could negotiate.

In terms of direct, you always pay a prorated amount when buying and the credit meshed with that. It’s not a negotiable thing when you purchase that way like with resale.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

It's not enough money to worry about. If it bothers you, agree to it and negotiate a $300 discount somewhere else in the deal.