Which is better??

[handicap18]

I would have to agree that a better camera usually means a better quality sensor...

I know a lot of members over at Nikonians.org that own D200's ($1600 body)wish it had the clairity at 1600 that the D50 ($550 body) does.

 

[deletedpenguin]

I can't speak for Nikon, as I strictly use Canon, but that holds true with their lineup. That's the reason I bought Canon in the first place.

 

[ukcatfan]

Nikon is a good example of better models not guaranteeing better IQ. Because their top of the line is getting a little on the old side, it is not the greatest at high ISO compared to their newer cheaper models. Here is a quote from Steve's on the D2X($4,000+):

"While its exposure and auto focus system complemented each other nicely, producing consistently sharp, well-exposed images, image noise was present in shadow areas at ISO sensitivities as low as 200, and growing to a quite noticeable level at ISO 800. The D2X includes a High ISO Noise Reduction feature that can be activated in the camera's menu system; this in-camera noise processing does diminish the amount of noise, but at the expense of image detail. At ISO settings of HI-1 (ISO 1600) and HI-2 (ISO 3200), shadow noise is very high even with the use of High ISO Noise Reduction."

Now here is a quote from his review of the D40 ($500):

"I was very impressed with the lack of image noise in our test shots, even ISO 1600 looks relatively good in my opinion."

Also, the D50 and D70 have the exact same sensor, but the cheaper D50 is known to have less noise.

I am not saying that the cheaper models are better, but they are better at ISO noise it seems. You are really paying for the features when you go to higher level gear. Those features sometimes mean the difference in getting the shot or not.

Kevin

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

You looking at 100% crops of an image that was taken with the camera about half a mile or further away from the subject.

For the night shots, true ... but he also does the close-ups of the bottle and the Celestial Seasonings tea and the results are the same. There is clearly a lot more noise in the Sony than the Nikon and more (though not as much) in the Nikon than the Canon.

If MP and noise reduction can account for the differences, fine ... but clearly there IS a difference in the quality of these pics and between these cameras.

But, I guess price isn't necessarily the best guide to better quality....

 

[ukcatfan]

I can't speak for Nikon, as I strictly use Canon, but that holds true with their lineup. That's the reason I bought Canon in the first place.

We really need to wait on the 30D replacement before comparing to the XTi as they are different generation cameras. I believe everyone expects the 30D replacement to have more noise than the 30D if it sticks with the APS-C sensor and increases MPs. If it has less, it would probably only be software related and decrease detail. They might end up going with the 1.3x sensor in it though.

Kevin

 

[deletedpenguin]

We really need to wait on the 30D replacement before comparing to the XTi as they are different generation cameras. I believe everyone expects the 30D replacement to have more noise than the 30D if it sticks with the APS-C sensor and increases MPs. If it has less, it would probably only be software related and decrease detail. They might end up going with the 1.3x sensor in it though.

Kevin

I would agree that they'd need to increase sensor size on the 30d if they're going to increase the MP.

 

[ukcatfan]

For the night shots, true ... but he also does the close-ups of the bottle and the Celestial Seasonings tea and the results are the same. There is clearly a lot more noise in the Sony than the Nikon and more (though not as much) in the Nikon than the Canon.

If MP and noise reduction can account for the differences, fine ... but clearly there IS a difference in the quality of these pics and between these cameras.

I guess price isn't necessarily the best guide to better quality....

You cannot do the upgrade is better IQ comparison between companies as it will not hold up correctly. Of the typically selected DSLR brands, Canon is the best at high ISO hands down. I would say that Nikon is the second best. Lately I have been thinking Pentax is third, but we need to wait for the next Sony to be sure. I give fourth to Sony. With the smaller 4/3 sensor in the Olympus, I believe that they are always going to be last in ISO.

Given that, they are all pretty darn close and all worlds better than a p&s, so it really does not make much of a difference. Also, as Groucho said, if you shoot RAW, it becomes even less of an issue b/c you get to do your own noise reduction. I personally like Noise Ninja and Noiseware more than in camera NR or the NR built into RAW converters and normal post processing software like PS or PSP.

Kevin

 

[deletedpenguin]

I LOVE Noiseware. It has saved alot of images for me. It's made some of my P&S pics from back in the day look like they weren't taken with a P&S at all, including the picture in my sig. Here's the full rez of that photo, taken with a Canon a520 and processed with PS and Noiseware:

 

[RBennett]

Well, the more I think about it, the more I'm drawn to the Sony and the Pentax for my DSLR. One of the big reasons I have to admit is the in camera IS. Blame it on my caffeine addiction but I can't keep steady to save my life. Unless there's a Canon SLR that people think is in the running and within my price range. So I guess it comes down to, which would you prefer between the Sony and the Pentax? I saw the previous post with the thread debating the two and I haven't gotten all of the way through it, but then an even earlier post said that for almost the same amount I can get the pentax and the upgraded lens on beachcamera. So.....I think that's where I'm about to. Now keep in mind I have to keep this under $800. Thanks again for everyone's HUGE input!!!

 

[ukcatfan]

...Unless there's a Canon SLR that people think is in the running and within my price range. So I guess it comes down to, which would you prefer between the Sony and the Pentax? I saw the previous post with the thread debating the two and I haven't gotten all of the way through it, but then an even earlier post said that for almost the same amount I can get the pentax and the upgraded lens on beachcamera. So.....I think that's where I'm about to. Now keep in mind I have to keep this under $800. Thanks again for everyone's HUGE input!!!

The Canon in your range is the XT, but for IS with them or Nikon, there is no way to keep it in your price range. For the Pentax K100D, you can get two lenses and still be in budget. With the Sony, you will only get one for that price.

Kevin

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

Here's a direct link to the review for the Pentax 100D: http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/pentax/k100d-review/

Based solely on the results in this review, it looks like the Pentax takes better pics....

 

[deletedpenguin]

Worry about lenses later. Stick with the kit lens until you get a good feel for the camera.

 

[ukcatfan]

Worry about lenses later. Stick with the kit lens until you get a good feel for the camera.

Normally I would agree with this, but right now if you buy the K100D with kit lens at the same time as the DA 50-200mm, you get an extra $50 rebate making the total rebate $150. From Buydig, the total would be $747.78 before the rebate. That is a hard deal to pass up.

Kevin

 

[deletedpenguin]

Normally I would agree with this, but right now if you buy the K100D with kit lens at the same time as the DA 50-200mm, you get an extra $50 rebate making the total rebate $150. From Buydig, the total would be $747.78 before the rebate. That is a hard deal to pass up.

Kevin

That IS a pretty good deal.

 

[Master Mason]

Nikon is a good example of better models not guaranteeing better IQ. Because their top of the line is getting a little on the old side, it is not the greatest at high ISO compared to their newer cheaper models. Here is a quote from Steve's on the D2X($4,000+):

"While its exposure and auto focus system complemented each other nicely, producing consistently sharp, well-exposed images, image noise was present in shadow areas at ISO sensitivities as low as 200, and growing to a quite noticeable level at ISO 800. The D2X includes a High ISO Noise Reduction feature that can be activated in the camera's menu system; this in-camera noise processing does diminish the amount of noise, but at the expense of image detail. At ISO settings of HI-1 (ISO 1600) and HI-2 (ISO 3200), shadow noise is very high even with the use of High ISO Noise Reduction."

Now here is a quote from his review of the D40 ($500):

"I was very impressed with the lack of image noise in our test shots, even ISO 1600 looks relatively good in my opinion."

Also, the D50 and D70 have the exact same sensor, but the cheaper D50 is known to have less noise.

I am not saying that the cheaper models are better, but they are better at ISO noise it seems. You are really paying for the features when you go to higher level gear. Those features sometimes mean the difference in getting the shot or not.

Kevin

So I haven't gone and looked at comparison pictures. But in reading the words here, it sounds to me like he was disapointed in a $4K camera body and pleased with what a $400 camera body would do.

I am wondering if that is really a comparison between the 2 or a statement of quality vs cost.

 

[ukcatfan]

So I haven't gone and looked at comparison pictures. But in reading the words here, it sounds to me like he was disapointed in a $4K camera body and pleased with what a $400 camera body would do.

I am wondering if that is really a comparison between the 2 or a statement of quality vs cost.

It is really hard to tell as the reviews are something like two-three years apart. Why have they not replaced the D2X yet? It seems like they are just serving the market to Canon by not upgrading.

Kevin

 

[deletedpenguin]

Kevin, I take it you are a Nikon user?

 

[RBennett]

OK......so I just noticed something. I was looking at bestbuy and I saw that the Canon Rebel XT is within my price range, and it comes with the 18-55mm lens. Also, I noticed that according to them, it DOES have IS. And the sensor size is 22.2mm x 14.8mm. So I think this might put it in the running now with the other two. Just what I needed....ANOTHER option!!

 

[deletedpenguin]

^ If you're open to buying used, check out this forum:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php

There are always deals to be found here. I've bought multiple lenses and accesories off of here.

 

[Master Mason]

Kevin, I take it you are a Nikon user?

Actually Kevin has a Pentax....