(When) will DVC go “negative”?

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

At the moment, I feel like EPCOT is actually the weakest park... That will be especially the case once the AK re-working is done...

They've drained so much out of the experience of EPCOT that I really can't recommend it at this point...

To each their own, and I really don’t judge, plus the more of you trashing EPCOT the less crowded it is for MOI (said in the voice of Miss piggy), but we love almost every single thing about World Showcase, IG, and BCV/BCR — except the banana pants crazy bathroom layout in the villas…many doors and tiny shower was a weird choice!

 

[zavandor]

Happy to look at this with the data we have.

We don't know directly that people are DVC owners. And we don't yet have location data in the app (we're adding it later this year, for maps & walking directions). But we can ask "Do people who stay at BCV have more planned visits to EPCOT than to other parks?"

That work for you?

I think the more relevant question for the discussion would be: is it true that the average guest only does one lap of World Showcase for the whole trip?
Thanks

 

[walt34]

I think the more relevant question for the discussion would be: is it true that the average guest only does one lap of World Showcase for the whole trip?
Thanks

Yes, the discussion seems to have shifted a bit. But I believe only Disney has the actual data on this (e.g. location data from MDE)

Anecdotally, we visit Epcot more than once per trip, even if we are not staying close to IG. But when we are staying at BW or BC, Epcot regularly becomes our second park of the day. After starting in a different park in the morning, we like to finish the day at World Showcase lagoon.

Staying at a Skyliner resort is not the same for us, btw. Waiting in line for the Skyliner at park closing is not the same as walking a few steps to the resort. So for Skyliner resort trips, we visit Epcot not quite as frequently.

 

[davidhr]

I think the more relevant question for the discussion would be: is it true that the average guest only does one lap of World Showcase for the whole trip?
Thanks

From my experience taking family and friends that don’t go regularly, yes. A lot of times they can only do 2-3 parks as they also want to go to Universal. Epcot is often skipped to favor parks with more rides.

Now, the average frequent visitor is a different story. Also the Epcot attendance is helped by locals, and those spend most of their time at the showcase.

But from my experience, the average WDW visitor doesn’t spend much time at the World Showcase.

 

[eticketplease]

the more of you trashing EPCOT the less crowded it is for MOI (said in the voice of Miss piggy)

I keep seeing this in my mind and can't stop laughing!! Great start of the day on a Monday!!

 

[kanerf]

I suspect a few years out from 2042, DVC will announce what they are going to do with the closing resorts, refurb or tear-down and make various options available to owners. I just went through this with Wyndham where the got rid of a resort that I owned at and gave me the option to take the points in their Trust system or just get out of the resort all together and possibly receive some money when it gets sold off. You will notice that DVC recently created a trust, so that may be the direction they are headed in.

 

[Brian Noble]

I will bet a very large pile of mickeybars that Disney is not going to just give expiring owners new points for free. The Wyndham situation (in which I am also an owner at one of the closing resorts) is a very different kettle of fish.

 

[walt34]

My bet is that the contracts for the existing 2042 resorts (with the possible exception of OKW) will expire and Disney will give a bit of a discount to existing owners on buying new points for whatever (possibly trust-based) system they'll be running at the time.

For OKW they might come up with a different offer to resolve the mess they created previously.

 

[ark101]

My bet is that the contracts for the existing 2042 resorts (with the possible exception of OKW) will expire and Disney will give a bit of a discount to existing owners on buying new points for whatever (possibly trust-based) system they'll be running at the time.

For OKW they might come up with a different offer to resolve the mess they created previously.

I really hope so. I am one of the people with a weird distortion field around Beach Club lol. We bought resale BCV in 2023 after we couldn't get into it at 7 month mark reliably and happy we did.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

My bet is that the contracts for the existing 2042 resorts (with the possible exception of OKW) will expire and Disney will give a bit of a discount to existing owners on buying new points for whatever (possibly trust-based) system they'll be running at the time.

For OKW they might come up with a different offer to resolve the mess they created previously.

Maybe they will offer all of us the once in a lifetime opportunity to get 15 year contracts at OKW with dues at $20/pt.

I really hope so. I am one of the people with a weird distortion field around Beach Club lol. We bought resale BCV in 2023 after we couldn't get into it at 7 month mark reliably and happy we did.

Same, bought it in 2023 and haven’t regretted it for a single second…well, I regret not buying 2x as many points.

 

[sethschroeder]

A timesahre gave me a recurring, consistent resort experience for a very good price with minimal ongoing work to secure it.

I understand but Timeshares that are "resort like" typically end up around lots of other resorts like in Mexico or Colorado don't they?

I was more saying why would I get a Timeshare thats basically a room or townhome when you have tons of options right next door.

That explicitly is why you see other Timeshares worth $0 while DVC resale is worth $$. Its also why you might find a one off some place that you can actually resell.

but it isn't the same as staying at a true "resort property" somewhere else

What are you getting of true quality in Orlando at those resort properties?

I can see resorts in the Caribbean but in Orlando?

 

[sethschroeder]

Wild thought - if Disney built a second skyliner route: AKV - AK - Blizzard Beach - Coronado Springs - Speedway - Hollywood, what would that do for the economics of colorado springs and AKV?

You might get a skyliner to Disney Springs but you are not getting one from HS to AKV. You are talking about roughly 2x the distance between Epcot and HS via skyliner. It likely would be more as you need to have as few turns as possible in the skyliner.

So you are looking at roughly a hour one way from AKV to HS.

 

[sethschroeder]

The average person only spends a little time in World Showcase. They do one single loop per trip. That's just a fact.

In a typical week to WDW numbers will tell you that they end up in Epcot 2x. When they end up in Epcot 2x then they are likely hitting World Showcase both times for food.

Additionally those who enter in the IG are more exposed with easier access and more likely to find themselves in Epcot more than those who need to travel and walk the park length.

Beach Club benefits from being the closest of any park to a Disney Park entrance.

 

[WinterSolider]

When they end up in Epcot 2x then they are likely hitting World Showcase both times for food.

Source: Trust me bro.

See also: I made it up.

You know what the #1 restaurant in Epcot is by volume? Connections, f.k.a. Electric Umbrella. You know what the #2 restaurant in Epcot is by volume? Sunshine Seasons, and they're not even open for dinner.

Additionally those who enter in the IG are more exposed with easier access and more likely to find themselves in Epcot more than those who need to travel and walk the park length.

That's literally my point. Beach Club causes people to become World Showcase people, or attracts people who were already World Showcase people in the first place. Staying at Beach Club changes guest behavior because "we're already here so we might as well." That does not mean that Beach Club guest behavior is in line with typical guest behavior.

People who are deep in the Disney bubble are completely blind to how ignorant the average guest is. Loads of them refer to World Showcase as "the countries" and don't go back there at all because "there's nothing to do."

 

[Brian Noble]

I understand but Timeshares that are "resort like" typically end up around lots of other resorts like in Mexico or Colorado don't they?

Or Orlando. That's my point. Even in Orlando/Lake Buena Vista, which is practicaly DROWNING in short-term rental options at attractive prices, there was a value proposition for me. Now, that value proposition relied on very low resale prices, but still. There is value there for some people. That you do not agree with that does not invalidate my experience.

What are you getting of true quality in Orlando at those resort properties?

Next time you find yourself short of points, give Bonnet Creek a try. Or Marriott's Grande Vista. Or any of a number of others. I have, and from where I sit, the resorts themselves are every bit the equal of (and in some ways, better than) the typiical DVC unit. To be fair, DVC has upped their game in the last decade or so. Mostly.

 

[sethschroeder]

Source: Trust me bro.

See also: I made it up.

You know what the #1 restaurant in Epcot is by volume? Connections, f.k.a. Electric Umbrella. You know what the #2 restaurant in Epcot is by volume? Sunshine Seasons, and they're not even open for dinner.

1) WDW attendance by park is easy to obtain
2) Splitting up the average along a 7 day trip equates to 2 days in Epcot
3) Volume of dining locations is skewed to World Showcase
4) Festivals further skew dining towards World Showcase with roughly 250 festival days per year
5) Vacation park goers are likely to eat two times in a park (Meal or Snack)

You seem fairly angry on this subject.

 

[sethschroeder]

Or Orlando. That's my point. Even in Orlando/Lake Buena Vista, which is practicaly DROWNING in short-term rental options at attractive prices, there was a value proposition for me. Now, that value proposition relied on very low resale prices, but still. There is value there for some people. That you do not agree with that does not invalidate my experience.

I am not trying to invalidate anything you said. You said it gave you a resort experience so I was just add my thoughts.

My experience from seeing timeshares is they are often hotels/condo/townhome not a true resort. You would know better than I would. The timeshares that seemingly are resorts are then surrounded by other like quality resorts that have cash stays with various deals.

DVC is an anomaly. It is like ABC company buying up all of 7 mile beach in Jamacia and the only non-ABC owned properties were a 15-20 min bus ride away from the beach. ABC company timeshares would hold value since they control all the capacity. Thing is that doesn't exist outside of DVC.

Also I know for certain people timeshares are extremely worth it and work out financially in their benefit. I was more so coming from the point of view from someone on the outside who might think of taking a look. There is a reason DVC can just sell their product while others have to play high pressure sales.

Or Orlando. That's my point. Even in Orlando/Lake Buena Vista, which is practicaly DROWNING in short-term rental options at attractive prices, there was a value proposition for me. Now, that value proposition relied on very low resale prices, but still. There is value there for some people. That you do not agree with that does not invalidate my experience.


Next time you find yourself short of points, give Bonnet Creek a try. Or Marriott's Grande Vista. Or any of a number of others. I have, and from where I sit, the resorts themselves are every bit the equal of (and in some ways, better than) the typiical DVC unit. To be fair, DVC has upped their game in the last decade or so. Mostly.

What do they have though that Riviera, Grand, Poly, Wilderness dont have? The person was seemingly saying there were services or offerings that were missing? That was more so my question not that Bonnet Creek isn't really nice.

I would say though we looked at possibly staying at Bonnet Creek and it looked nice but if we are not going to be going to WDW or Universal primarily then I would rather vacation to a island, cruise, or hit up Europe. That is us though I know others love going to Florida in general.

 

[davidhr]

1) WDW attendance by park is easy to obtain
2) Splitting up the average along a 7 day trip equates to 2 days in Epcot
3) Volume of dining locations is skewed to World Showcase
4) Festivals further skew dining towards World Showcase with roughly 250 festival days per year
5) Vacation park goers are likely to eat two times in a park (Meal or Snack)

You seem fairly angry on this subject.

Not arguing it because I have no data. Is there a source where we can see the average Disney trip length? I’ve a hard time believing the average WDW visitor hits a park twice during a trip. But that’s personal experience and not a fact, so happy to be proved wrong.