Whats Wrong with Disney?

[Gottahavemorecowbell]

We need more cowbell!!

I totally agree!

 

[JimmyV]

I agree there's a segment of the population that doesn't like Star Wars, hasn't seen the movies, tv shows, read the novels, etc.. There's also a segment (me) for which the same can be said about Harry Potter.

I don't doubt, and don't wish to debate the level of enthusiasm that some such as yourself have for the SW franchise. It is real. That is obvious. And so too is the level of enthusiasm of people who go to Star Trek conventions and can speak fluent Klingon. But don't confuse passion for numbers. The Disney demographic is not now, nor will it be in 30 years, concentrated on SW. Might they like some attractions that are themed that way? Sure. But giving SW fans a month of events seems about right to me. Expansion of the franchise is a given. The question is, how much and at the expense of what? Giving Disney fans an expanded experience of attractions based on Disney movies in concert with some SW expansion seems to be a better idea than going "all in" on SW. Again, that is my opinion and yours if different.

 

[Brian Noble]

I just don't like the look of computer animation compared to hand-drawn, and computer animation isn't Disney to me.

But it absolutely is the look that today's families with young kids see and associate with Disney.

 

[DisUniversal]

And to me, those movies you mentioned are not real Disney. I just don't like the look of computer animation compared to hand-drawn, and computer animation isn't Disney to me.

Hand-drawn animation is all but dead to this and coming generations...just like B&W TV and silent movies are to previous generations.

After the 7DMT opened, we tried watching Snow White again and while the story is timeless, the animation is pretty bad by today's standards.

Kids who have grown up watching movies like Shrek, Tangled, Despicable Me, Toy Story and Frozen aren't going to be be impressed with older style movies like Snow White, Dumbo and Peter Pan.

imho, I think Disney needs to remake some of the classics in CGI so future generations can enjoy them. Then they can release them on Blu-Ray with the original versions as a bonus...for the grandparents.

 

[Burnedout]

I do t know. I've never shown a little boy Peter Pan and not had them be enthralled.

 

[Grumpy92]

I have to agree with you there are alot of things that are bothering us about Disney right now. This is just my opinion. We have been going since WDW opened and have seen many changes. Some good, some not so good, but we always come back. This year saw us reassessing.

We have decreased our APs to seasonal. We are getting APs for US/IOA for the HP this year. Frankly we got a better hotel rate at their new hotel as well. There Gst Svc has also improved drastically. Avatar and not much at the new Fantasyland really appeals to us.

We are not happy with the FP+ system especially as an AP. We have always been planners but this is taking it to a new extreme and it feels like we are constantly looking at our watches so we dont miss our "appointment".

We used to never leave WDW property, now we are going elsewhere to dine. The menus and merchandise seem too homogeneous Resort restaurants in particular do not have much variety or quality for the price with exception of EC/DTD.

Cleanliness is another issue we seem to see frequently. Bathrooms have been particularly bad. You can tell the cms dont have as much training as they used too because many dont seem knowledgeable. When you have a cm telling you Hall of Pres is at EC there is a problem.

With our family history of frequency all these little things add up. I know some dont have these experiences and I am thrilled you are enjoying your visit. Again this is just our experiences as seasoned guest. Saying all that we are still visiting just finding other appealing options out there.
I want Disney to up there game, Universal is showing they want to be a strong competitor.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Kong and Jurassic Park aren't possibilities. They are already happening. The other rumor I heard from speaking with several Universal employees is Kid Zone being rethemed to Bikini Bottom. If that happens, Disney can say bye-bye to the 3-9 year old crowd for at least a couple of days.

That would be brilliant (theming to SpongeBob)
I love that they are going to try to appeal to boys since Disney has the market cornered on the girly stuff.

 

[flicx]

I have to agree with you there are alot of things that are bothering us about Disney right now. This is just my opinion. We have been going since WDW opened and have seen many changes. Some good, some not so good, but we always come back. This year saw us reassessing.

We have decreased our APs to seasonal. We are getting APs for US/IOA for the HP this year. Frankly we got a better hotel rate at their new hotel as well. There Gst Svc has also improved drastically. Avatar and not much at the new Fantasyland really appeals to us.

We are not happy with the FP+ system especially as an AP. We have always been planners but this is taking it to a new extreme and it feels like we are constantly looking at our watches so we dont miss our "appointment".

We used to never leave WDW property, now we are going elsewhere to dine. The menus and merchandise seem too homogeneous Resort restaurants in particular do not have much variety or quality for the price with exception of EC/DTD.

Cleanliness is another issue we seem to see frequently. Bathrooms have been particularly bad. You can tell the cms dont have as much training as they used too because many dont seem knowledgeable. When you have a cm telling you Hall of Pres is at EC there is a problem.

With our family history of frequency all these little things add up. I know some dont have these experiences and I am thrilled you are enjoying your visit. Again this is just our experiences as seasoned guest. Saying all that we are still visiting just finding other appealing options out there.
I want Disney to up there game, Universal is showing they want to be a strong competitor.

I agree with a lot you are saying. Disney has really shifted its focus. Customer service and new attractions have taken a back seat recently. It seems they now are all about squeezing every last dime from their customers. Disney had a successful formula that worked for decades. Now it seems they wish to push into a different direction.

 

[BrianL]

Mmmmkay...

We must have a different view on what "theming" is.


Edit: this site is screwing up because I didn't quote DisUniversal...it was Brian I replied to.

Fair enough, IoA is more themed than Studios proper, though I really don't find the Marvel land or Comics lands very immersive. JP is cool at the gates but then it's just a large sparse area with trees. I LOVE the outside of that Atlantis thingy...too bad the inside isn't that interesting.

I actually prefer Universal Hollywood because it feels like movie studio (well, becauser it IS one)...and I like movies!

 

[JimmyV]

I agree with a lot you are saying. Disney has really shifted its focus. Customer service and new attractions have taken a back seat recently. It seems they now are all about squeezing every last dime from their customers. Disney had a successful formula that worked for decades. Now it seems they wish to push into a different direction.

While I agree that attractions have taken a back seat, I think that a less cynical reason is to blame. WDW has become the Roman Empire. It has outgrown its ability to sustain its own infrastructure without re-directing a disproportionate amount of capital toward that end. It has hotels that are 40, 30, 20 and 10 year old that need serious upkeep/upgrades. It has rides that are 40, 30, 20 and 10 years old that need to be re-worked. A lot of what they are spending money on is not directed at squeezing dollars out of guests but instead is done to prevent that which exists from crumbling to the ground. WDW may be at to the point where operating costs for existing facilities eat up so much of the budget that new expenditures become difficult to approve. While expansion of the parks could conceivably be infinite, the ability to sustain new growth while paying for old structures may be impossible.

 

[DisUniversal]

I have to agree with you there are alot of things that are bothering us about Disney right now. This is just my opinion. We have been going since WDW opened and have seen many changes. Some good, some not so good, but we always come back. This year saw us reassessing.

We have decreased our APs to seasonal. We are getting APs for US/IOA for the HP this year. Frankly we got a better hotel rate at their new hotel as well. There Gst Svc has also improved drastically. Avatar and not much at the new Fantasyland really appeals to us.

We are not happy with the FP+ system especially as an AP. We have always been planners but this is taking it to a new extreme and it feels like we are constantly looking at our watches so we dont miss our "appointment".

We used to never leave WDW property, now we are going elsewhere to dine. The menus and merchandise seem too homogeneous Resort restaurants in particular do not have much variety or quality for the price with exception of EC/DTD.

Cleanliness is another issue we seem to see frequently. Bathrooms have been particularly bad. You can tell the cms dont have as much training as they used too because many dont seem knowledgeable. When you have a cm telling you Hall of Pres is at EC there is a problem.

With our family history of frequency all these little things add up. I know some dont have these experiences and I am thrilled you are enjoying your visit. Again this is just our experiences as seasoned guest. Saying all that we are still visiting just finding other appealing options out there.
I want Disney to up there game, Universal is showing they want to be a strong competitor.

This pretty much sums up my feelings. I'm probably going a step further and trading our AP's for Epcot after 4 passes and those along with a yearly trip to MNSSHP for our MK fix will have to do. Hard to justify paying Disney $500 for an AP when I can pay less than half that for a Universal pass (or about 1/3 for a power pass) and actually go somewhere where it feels like they're trying to earn my dollar vs. just trying to find a way to take it from me.

Do have to say that with the AP, we actually like the FP+ system. We typically don't get to the parks until 3 or 4 in the afternoon and under the old system, all the FP for the high demand attractions were gone by that time. With FP+, I typically have 3 FP+ reservations for every Saturday/Sunday/Holiday for the next 30 days. Only wind up going one day a month, but all those no shows probably help the standby line so I'm doing a good thing for the non-planners like myself.

 

[btk2333]

I don't doubt, and don't wish to debate the level of enthusiasm that some such as yourself have for the SW franchise. It is real. That is obvious. And so too is the level of enthusiasm of people who go to Star Trek conventions and can speak fluent Klingon. But don't confuse passion for numbers. The Disney demographic is not now, nor will it be in 30 years, concentrated on SW. Might they like some attractions that are themed that way? Sure. But giving SW fans a month of events seems about right to me. Expansion of the franchise is a given. The question is, how much and at the expense of what? Giving Disney fans an expanded experience of attractions based on Disney movies in concert with some SW expansion seems to be a better idea than going "all in" on SW. Again, that is my opinion and yours if different.

You are sorely mistaken if you think Star Wars isn't a potential gamechanger for WDW. People always seems to underestimate the popularity of franchises of which they are not fans. Star Wars has the staying power and popularity that Harry Potter has not proven to have yet (although I believe it will remain popular for a long time too). What is the "Disney demographic" and even if it's not focused on Star Wars fans now- why wouldn't Disney want to capture the Star Wars demographic? Disney didn't spend the money to acquire Star Wars just because. As for the prequels being "awful", they still make a crap load of money and Disney is looking to cash in on the movie rights. I've heard they intend to tie the Star Wars land openings in with the release of the new movies (just like they intend to do with Avatar).

I guess it depends on what you consider "all in" on Star Wars. I think it's likely there will be a -land sized expansion at DHS. Is that all in? They've already got Star Tours and plenty of space from American Idol, Indiana Jones and the area behind Star Tours.

But, like I said before, I am a bigger Star Wars fanboy than I am a Disney fanboy and I am 27 years old so my opinions are what they are. My cousins that are 8-14 all love Star Wars now and that's even the prequels, cartoons, etc that represent the series now. It seems like Disney would love to market to this demographic more in the future since that seems to be a lot of what Disney loses to Universal.

 

[btk2333]

Kong and Jurassic Park aren't possibilities. They are already happening. The other rumor I heard from speaking with several Universal employees is Kid Zone being rethemed to Bikini Bottom. If that happens, Disney can say bye-bye to the 3-9 year old crowd for at least a couple of days.

why is it that when someone hears Universal employees mention rumors its taken as a sure thing that will ruin Disney, whereas when people mention Disney rumors they are cast aside because Disney will inevitably mess them up or not build them...

 

[DisUniversal]

You are sorely mistaken if you think Star Wars isn't a potential gamechanger for WDW. People always seems to underestimate the popularity of franchises of which they are not fans. Star Wars has the staying power and popularity that Harry Potter has not proven to have yet (although I believe it will remain popular for a long time too). What is the "Disney demographic" and even if it's not focused on Star Wars fans now- why wouldn't Disney want to capture the Star Wars demographic? Disney didn't spend the money to acquire Star Wars just because. As for the prequels being "awful", they still make a crap load of money and Disney is looking to cash in on the movie rights. I've heard they intend to tie the Star Wars land openings in with the release of the new movies (just like they intend to do with Avatar).

I guess it depends on what you consider "all in" on Star Wars. I think it's likely there will be a -land sized expansion at DHS. Is that all in? They've already got Star Tours and plenty of space from American Idol, Indiana Jones and the area behind Star Tours.

But, like I said before, I am a bigger Star Wars fanboy than I am a Disney fanboy and I am 27 years old so my opinions are what they are. My cousins that are 8-14 all love Star Wars now and that's even the prequels, cartoons, etc that represent the series now. It seems like Disney would love to market to this demographic more in the future since that seems to be a lot of what Disney loses to Universal.

Interesting write up...
http://www.hypable.com/2013/02/08/star-wars-vs-harry-potter/

 

[btk2333]

Interesting write up...
http://www.hypable.com/2013/02/08/star-wars-vs-harry-potter/

good read- i love both franchises- for me Star Wars is and probably always will be #1, but I grew up with Star Wars and the Expanded Universe.

 

[BuzzinDownToDisney]

Hand-drawn animation is all but dead to this and coming generations...just like B&W TV and silent movies are to previous generations.

After the 7DMT opened, we tried watching Snow White again and while the story is timeless, the animation is pretty bad by today's standards.

Kids who have grown up watching movies like Shrek, Tangled, Despicable Me, Toy Story and Frozen aren't going to be be impressed with older style movies like Snow White, Dumbo and Peter Pan.

imho, I think Disney needs to remake some of the classics in CGI so future generations can enjoy them. Then they can release them on Blu-Ray with the original versions as a bonus...for the grandparents.

I kind of disagree here. We watched Peter Pan with my 3yo son last weekend and he really liked it. Probably didn't get as crazy enthusiastic as he did first time he saw Toy Story, but enjoyed it nonetheless. The problem with all the attractions being based on movies in the 50s and 60s is many parents find the content to be very questionable for young ones. I know I was uncomfortable watching the Indian scene and he got real quiet when Hook murdered the singing pirate. I'd much rather my kid was any of the modern classics than see Pinocchio get wasted.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Haven't read the entire thing, but what Universal has done with Harry Potter is create a single attraction that is capable of drawing people to Orlando without regard to the other attractions. I do not believe Avatarland to be capable of the same. Something big with Star Wars? Definitely.

The opening of Animal Kingdom in 1998 & Kilimanjaro Safari is probably the last time that Disney has done anything of that magnitude.


Now, what that all means for us long term? Who knows?

 

[Suvadoo]

While I agree that attractions have taken a back seat, I think that a less cynical reason is to blame. WDW has become the Roman Empire. It has outgrown its ability to sustain its own infrastructure without re-directing a disproportionate amount of capital toward that end. It has hotels that are 40, 30, 20 and 10 year old that need serious upkeep/upgrades. It has rides that are 40, 30, 20 and 10 years old that need to be re-worked. A lot of what they are spending money on is not directed at squeezing dollars out of guests but instead is done to prevent that which exists from crumbling to the ground. WDW may be at to the point where operating costs for existing facilities eat up so much of the budget that new expenditures become difficult to approve. While expansion of the parks could conceivably be infinite, the ability to sustain new growth while paying for old structures may be impossible.

If what you're saying were true. How do you incorporate MagicBands and MDE into your theory?

 

[JimmyV]

People always seems to underestimate the popularity of franchises of which they are not fans.

Never said I wasn't a fan. I've seen every SW movie. I've seen two and a half HP movies. (Fell asleep during the third and never bothered to pick it up from there.)

What is the "Disney demographic" and even if it's not focused on Star Wars fans now- why wouldn't Disney want to capture the Star Wars demographic?

The Disney Demographic is a mom and dad with a 5 year old boy and a 3 year old girl. (Of course, all variations of families count. This is just an example). They go to WDW and visit princesses, ride Dumbo, Small World, Pirates, own 20+ DVDs of Disney movies and have watched each multiple times. They fall in love with WDW and come back again and again, each time the kids are a bit older and do a bit more than they did before. As Disney churns out more movies, there will be more characters to meet, more attractions to explore. This family does not own the boxed set of SW movies. The kids, now ages 12 and 10, have probably not seen the 1977 SW movie. But the 12 year old has probably read a Harry Potter book. And a Percy Jackson book. And a Kingdom Keepers book. And a Maze Runner book. And a Hunger Games book. And many other books that are serialized for young readers. And the 10 year old will probably begin to read these books as well if she hasn't started already.

The point is, going forward, the Disney demographic will come upon Disney stuff organically, and children's literature through peers, school, or relatives. They likely won't come across SW stuff unless there is more of a catalyst. I have children, nieces and nephews that range in age from 30 to 1. All of them own (or their families own) Disney DVDs. The ones over the age of 12 have all read children series books like Hunger Games, Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, Kingdom Keepers, etc. And not a one of them knows or cares what Star Wars is. I don't doubt that I could have turned on my kid to SW if I pushed it harder. But we watched the first movie (or 4th, if you count funny) when it was on TV and she could not have been less interested. (But the same was true of "Twilight". But she really enjoyed "2001 A Space Odessey" and the entire "Twin Peaks" series. So go figure.) None of her friends are into SW. At all. I mean, it isn't even on the radar screen in her High School. Maybe it's a gender thing, but that cannot be discounted when 51% of the population is female. The point is, SW just doesn't seem to meld itself into the culture of young adults the way other youth literature does. Take a look at #s 1-100 here and count how many are SW books. Of course, this isn't all kids everywhere. No such generalizations are possible. But SW is not the "phenomenon" with the 5-18 crowd that many make it out to be. And as time marches forward it will be even less so.

I've heard they intend to tie the Star Wars land openings in with the release of the new movies.

The new SW movies are slated for release in 2015, 2016 and 2017. A Star Wars land could not cut its ribbon in 2018 if it broke ground today.

I guess it depends on what you consider "all in" on Star Wars. I think it's likely there will be a -land sized expansion at DHS. Is that all in?

Yes, that is what I am calling "all in". A New Fantasyland style committment in terms of space and money.

 

[JimmyV]

If what you're saying were true. How do you incorporate MagicBands and MDE into your theory?

Seamlessly. Look at the old infrastucture that they were able to retire and not have to maintain through the introduction of these.

And look no further than the monorail as another example. They have spent millions and millions on that system just to keep it running. And now they are forced to re-do the whole system since the existing sytem cannot be maintained through obsolesence. Would WDW rather spend that capital on attractions? Sure. But it can't because so much money is going in to the infrastructure of 40 year old systems. People complain about no plan for future rides. But they would also complain if the cement on the castle started to flake away. Can't win.