What will be the appeal of Saratoga Springs DVC?

[DownNeckBoy]

I have been reading about the DVC project planned for the old Disney Institute. I do not doubt that it will be a nice resort. But I do wonder about its potential appeal to new purchasers. It is in a more remote location than OKW, so it will not have the proximity appeal that BWV, BCV and VWL has for the various parks. I do not think it will have more spacious accomodations than OKW, so that is out as a "hook." It will not have a major pool, like SAB, to draw people.

So, other than its status as "another choice", what will be its appeal? Just curious.

 

[dianeschlicht]

It really isn't any more remote than OKW. It is right next door, and VERY close to DTD! I think the appeal will be similar to OKW. Those of us who LOVE OKW would definately try this resort. I just hope the accommodations are not small and hotel like. The spa will be a great appeal too.

 

[dianeschlicht]

The spa, hometown atmosphere and proximaty to DTD all have a theme of sorts to them too. It is a somewhat "non Disney" theme, but maybe that is the wave of the future. Those who say they don't go to the parks much any more might really like this type of vacation atmosphere.

 

[pat-rick]

Why did people first buy into OKW ?

Is the Disney Institute not near a Golf Course, never been there I'm not sure. How about Downtown Disney ? I believe it is to cater to a more mature member where the parks are not a big draw. I think it could be a place to relax, recharge and enjoy a Home away from Home.

Just my opinion

 

[poppop]

Has a major feature pool similar to SAB been ruled out?

 

[DownNeckBoy]

Diane:

I think OKW is great too! OKW has two recognized advantages at the moment: spaciousness and overall lower point cost than its sister resorts. That being said, proximity is not an advantage unless you either do not go to the parks or REALLY like DTD or PI. If Saratoga Springs has a point structure similar to OKW, than that will be a true consideration.

I recognize the spa appeal as well, but it is tough to fit a spa treatment into a Disney vacation with young children.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by poppop
Has a major feature pool similar to SAB been ruled out?

Here's what we know about the pool:

In the Orlando Sentinel article, "Disney unveils time-share plans," (click here) the pool is described as follows:
<blockquote>Saratoga Springs, already under construction, is being modeled after its namesake, the getaway town in the early 1900s for the affluent in eastern New York best known for its mineral springs.

For example, the pool area at the resort will be designed without the usual Disneyesque water slides -- focusing instead on a natural spring look with bubbles foaming up among rocks.</blockquote>
For an artist's rendering of the pool, click here.

To me, it looks like it will be a very nice pool. But for those who equate pools with slides to good and pools without slides to bad, this will be the latter.

 

[Dancind]

This looks like a "grotto" style pool, should be popular with my DD. Any information about room size? Diana

 

[donald@home]

Thanks for the link to the rendering of the pool. I think the pool looks VERY nice!

 

[sgtpet]

I can honestly say that I will not be adding on points at Saratoga Springs Resort.

It doesn't do anything for me.

 

[Regina]

Why did people first buy into OKW ?

Is the Disney Institute not near a Golf Course, never been there I'm not sure. How about Downtown Disney ? I believe it is to cater to a more mature member where the parks are not a big draw. I think it could be a place to relax, recharge and enjoy a Home away from Home.

As one of the OKW old geezers, I can assure you that your reasoning doesn't apply to me.

When we joined 10 years ago, OKW was the only DVC resort. We fell in love with it. It was and still is beautiful.

BUT, over the course of 10 years and countless visits, we always focus on visiting the theme parks. Sitting around the resort is not our style.

I think that the conversion of the Disney Institute to Saratoga Springs will solve a longstanding problem, no identity. We used to stay there before we joined DVC. It was lovely, it was spacious, but it lacked any sort of theming. The pool?? First you had to find it.

It looks like it's going to be wonderful.

 

[RoutemanDan]

This will be the place for our next add-on.I love the proximity to DTD.We always rent a car and drive to the parks anyway,but I will be within walking and/or boat distance to PI.

 

[PKS44]

Another Voice has hinted ont the rumors board that this resort may be priced to appeal to those without as much money as current DVC owners..."look for new “affordable options in DVC ownership” " --I.e low point structure (lower than OKW to reflect the smaller accomodations) and low initial point purchase requirements...

here is the post:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=263332&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

Paul

 

[Dean]

It will be the only DVC resort selling at the time from DVD directly. It will be the first new resort with 3 BR units in a while. I'm also sure DVD will do something to spice it up and make it very attractive to new members. Recent experiences have taught me that lower points per unit per week are not likely. My guess is a fairly major pool complex but not to the extent of SAB and maybe some additional activity options. I'm assuming no other incentives, no lower points, no lower price. I don't recall how many GV units there were, I wonder if the premium for them will be to the same extent as BW which is 150% the points of a 2 BR plus a studio.

I'd agree the location doesn't appeal to me at this time but I'm sure they will be very nice and once I see them, I would consider staying there as well.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by PKS44
Another Voice has hinted ont the rumors board that this resort may be priced to appeal to those without as much money as current DVC owners...

Paul, that's an interesting idea.

Allow me to add some speculation and some predictions. The recent announcement called for 184 newly constructed DVC units, plus 300 refurbished units that were previously part of the Villas at Disney Institute Resort.

The 184 new units will replace the current Townhouse units at DI, which will be torn down, according to the January 2002 announcement. This is a prime location. The new units will be right by the water, with great views across the lagoon to Downtown Disney. (Let's hope the soundproofing is better than in the old Townhouses.) These units are walking distance (or a very short boat ride) to Downtown Disney. With 3 out of the 4 theme parks closing early for much of the year, easy access to the shops, restaurants, and entertainment at Downtown Disney is a great asset. And imagine sitting on your balcony, with a glass of wine, watching the lights of Downtown Disney reflecting off the lagoon!

Prediction 1: The 184 new units will rank right up their with the best DVC accommodations. They will be brand new and beautifully themed to match the former Disney Institute main buildings. There will be various configurations (studio, 1BR, 2BR), configured and sized similarly to those at BWV, VWL, BCV. They will be priced in the same range -- probably somewhat higher than BCV, based on past history.

The announcement didn't say where the 300 refurbished units would be, but I can only guess that these units are the current 1-BR Bungalows at DI. There are 316 of them. (There are far fewer of other kinds of DI units.) They're configured with 2 queen beds in the bedroom and a single sofabed in the living room, for a total sleeping capacity of 5. I've never been inside one, but the bedding configuration suggests they have large bedrooms and small living rooms. Because they were built around 30 years ago, they probably have much smaller bathrooms than the luxury bathrooms with whirlpool tubs found at DVC resorts. They don't have full kitchens either, just a sink, refrigerator, microwave and coffee maker. The Bungalows are only 500 square feet. And the location of the old Bungalows isn't as good as that of the old Townhouses.

Prediction 2: The Bungalows will be completely refurbished and redecorated, with all-new carpeting, new wall-coverings and window treatments, remodeled (but still small) bathrooms, completely new kitchenettes, new furniture, and new mechanical systems such as new air conditioning. They'll probably get new siding and new roofs as well. The walkways, driveways, lighting and landscaping will be completely replaced, except for the mature trees. But they won't move walls in the Bungalows because with just 500 square feet to work with, there's no way to turn the them into 1-BR units in the tradition of the other DVC resorts. Plus, by the time they start making major structural changes, they would lose the cost advantages of refurbishing rather than tearing down and rebuilding. So these units will continue to sleep 5, with 2 queen beds in the bedroom and a single sofabed in the living room -- thereby finally providing appropriate DVC accommodations for cost-conscious families of 5. Of course, this configuration also works well for families of fewer than 5.

Prediction 3: The 300 refurbished units will, of course, have their own point chart different from the 1-BR units in the new part, but the legal separation between the 184 new units and the 300 refurbished units will be greater. Although they'll both be part of DVC, you'll buy into one project or the other. They will appeal to different market segments, with the refurbished units being the new "affordable option in DVC ownership." The 11 month / 7 month reservation rules will apply between them, just as between other DVC resorts such as between BWV and DCV. The two parts of the resort will share facilities such as check-in and the new, fancy pool, with costs allocated equitably to the two operating budgets (just as costs are allocated between BWV and BWI).

I'm 99% confident regarding Prediction 1, 75% confident regarding Prediction 2, but only 40% confident regarding Prediction 3.

What does everyone else think? Will this happen?

 

[Dean]

I think we're reading too much into this if we're thinking there will be 300 renovated units added to DVC. I doubt very much that will happen. What I'd suspect is that the older units will be part of a mixed use property, if it happens at all.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Dean
I think we're reading too much into this if we're thinking there will be 300 renovated units added to DVC.

I've excerpted some paragraphs from the Orlando Sentinel article (click here) and added bold highlighting to a couple of key lines:
<blockquote>The resort will include 184 new units and about 300 remodeled apartment-style rooms in older buildings that were part of the Disney Institute.

The campus-style buildings that contain the older rooms may also be enhanced to reflect the upstate New York theme, said Mariska Elia, a spokeswoman for Disney's time-share operation, called Vacation Club.

Saratoga Springs will be the latest addition to Disney's Vacation Club time-share apartments, which are hot sellers. Disney World already has about 2,000 time-share units along with its 22,000 hotel rooms.

Elia said the older section of the complex, the former Disney Institute, may also be converted to time shares.</blockquote>
So my speculation and predictions are based on what Mariska Elia, a spokeswoman for DVC, told the Sentinel -- and on the cryptic comments by Another Voice (who has lots of insight into Disney and lots of contacts in Disney) on the News and Rumors board (quoted by Paul on this board).

I agree that it's not a certainty. But right now, Disney needs timeshare inventory a lot more than they need rooms for nightly guests.

In the hospitality business, everyone is playing the segmentation game, with different brands targeted at different demographics. Marriott has brands from Fairfield Inn to Ritz-Carlton. Disney has segments from the value to the deluxe. In the timeshare business, Marriott Vacation Club launched the Horizons brand. DVD could go after a different market segment with a different product -- and DVD's cost of entry would be very low by leveraging the old Bungalows.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I could see them marketing the re-furb units as low-point 1 bedrooms or high-point studios that sleep 5. But to be high point studios I think they'd have to be something special. The small bathroom would be okay because studios don't have the big, waste of space, bath. But I'd have to have an incentive to stay in that sort of environment (guessing that it would lack a view).

They could then build the new units as 2 and 3 bedroom only.

But...I can see the idea of the two sets being separate legal entities. The new construction would be about the size of VWL.

However...I still can't see what they could do affordably with the old units. And with DVC selling like hotcakes why would you want to make the entry more affordable than it already is?

Plus...I wouldn't want to get stuck over there because all the people who bought re-furb points scooped up stays in BCV, BWV, OKW or VWL (yea I have 11 months but I dont actually use it).

 

[anniet]

Wow, leave it to the DVC'ers to consider all the angles! You all continue to impress and amaze me!!

And maybe I'm way off base with this, but I have to wonder why they wouldn't make these rooms close to OKW as far as points go? It seems to me that BCV, BWV, and WLV are located so very close to the parks that people would be willing to spend more points to stay there. Why would I want to spend the SAME amount of points to be near Downtown Disney, and not have access to a theme pool with a great slide (without pool hopping) when I can stay at OKW for less points and perhaps stay longer? I agree if they make studios larger it might entice some, but it wouldn't hold all that much appeal for me.

Now if I can stay at Saratoga Springs and SAVE points, then I'd be interested.

Could Disney possibly be giving us another lo-point option?

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by anniet
And maybe I'm way off base with this, but I have to wonder why they wouldn't make these rooms close to OKW as far as points go? It seems to me that BCV, BWV, and WLV are located so very close to the parks that people would be willing to spend more points to stay there. Why would I want to spend the SAME amount of points to be near Downtown Disney, and not have access to a theme pool with a great slide (without pool hopping) when I can stay at OKW for less points and perhaps stay longer?

You're not "way off base." In fact, thet's an interesting point for discussion.

Before VWL opened, there were people on this board saying things along the lines of, "how could they possibly make the points the same as for preferred view at BWV, when the rooms at VWL will just look out at trees and you won't be able to walk to a theme park? It's such an isolated location."

But VWL had the same points chart as BWV preferred view, and VWL was a huge success -- even though the price per point was higher than BWV had been.

So the answer to the question as to "why they wouldn't make these rooms close to OKW as far as points go?" is because they don't need to.

And Saratoga Springs will have a lot going for it. In fact, I bet the people who buy at Saratoga Springs will think they've bought at the best DVC resort. The thinking will go like this: "We only go to any given park or water park once during each stay, and we usually come home in the late afternoon. So it's great to have Downtown Disney at our doorstep -- restaurants, bars, nightclubs, movie theaters, shops, boat rentals, entertainment, and Disney Quest. Plus, the Saratoga Springs pool is great; I like the way the bubbles in the pool feel; it's so relaxing, and it's the only pool like it on WDW property."

Of course, those who bought at OKW, BWV, VWL, or BCV will each think they've bought at the best DVC resort.