What were these teens thinking?!

[christineann]

I think all schools should have an "agenda" that is anti-alcohol for minors, and enforcing the LAW does not mean that they are out to get the kids. Maybe I see things differently - I see nothing wrong with enforcing
1. The law
2. Behavior as outlined by the school administration, handbook, etc.

The kids made a choice and aren't mature enough to accept the consequences........I might come to the conclusion also that they are probably not mature enough to drink either. They then made the choice to use the name of a judge on a website for public view. I wonder if the parents would have felt the same way if their little darlings had posted something that profane and nasty about them (but then again, they don't seem to be the type to discipline their kids for fear of upsetting them anyway). Just a thought.

 

[MrsPete]

Please...These girls were the pretty, popular,smart kids who got everything. They felt like they were above the laws.
Where did they get it from? The parents.

I agree completely.

 

[MrsPete]

I'm relieved you all think as I do about this, that the punishment fit the crime. I couldn't believe the parents were criticizing the judge, did they not see anything wrong with their daughter's actions?

These kids easily could have died as a result of their actions. If that'd happened, what would the parents be saying? I bet it'd be something along these lines: "Why didn't the school and the court system do more to convince kids not to drink??"

So many parents have their heads in the sand when it comes to this topic.

 

[SpaceMonkeyMC]

......I have a great life...partly because it wasn't railroaded by a school official with an agenda. (Of course, I never got caught doing anything...partly because the school administration wasn't out to get us. There were no cops at my graduation or prom. And no problems, either.) And I was actually 18 and legal at my graduation, as were most of my classmates. And yet, we didn't show up drunk for the ceremony.

I agree with Planogirl. Being 18 to 21 these days is hard. You're an adult, and yet, not. And if you step out of line at all, it's a lot harder to get your life back on track.

Agreed, being 18 is hard. Its even more difficult when you make choices that you KNOW for a fact can easily get you in trouble. These girls did so. Planogirl is likely in the age of 18-21. Being 24 myself I can tell you that my attitude is radically different than it was when I was 18. So she's wrong that kids at that age have made their attitudes and parents can't reach them.

No one has touched on the fact that on about page 5 you indicated you thought it was illegal search and seizure. Thats easily the most ridiculous thing you've posted. They had reasonable cause. If those other kids didn't want to be lumped in with the drunk kids, then they should have either not had a sip of alcohol or told their friends to not do that. Its obvious that they all planned to do this. The alcohol didn't just appear in the limo.

Maybe you feel your life turned out great because it wasn't "railroaded" by someone with an agenda. Yet think of all the kids whose lives end up shortened or useless because no one bothered to teach them lessons. If you made it out ok without shool official intervention then odds are you were 1: a good kid anyways or 2: had good parental role models. Parents are responsible for teaching their kids about alcohol awareness. School officials are responsible for enforcing the states laws and keeping the students safe while in their care.

A) The law doesn't say "underage drinking is ok as long as you're not a behavior problem". Allowing even mildly intoxicated underage students to continue would have been dereliction of duty and put school officials in precarious legal positions.

B) Cops weren't checking alcohol at your prom because it was legal. Please learn to differentiate the two.

C) You finding that a law is hypocritical does not mean you can choose to ignore it. If you want it changed used the system of political redress.

D) You love to decry people giving instances of things that could have happened because of drinking by saying "rape didn't happen here..." etc. And why is that? Because there was intervention. No, it didn't happen, but that doesn't mean it is certain that it wouldn't have. So congratulations, without even knowing you are in agreement that the actions of the school officials prevented further travesty.

E) You feel sorry for the poor kids who missed their graduation after breaking rules that they knew had consequences. I know it stinks for them, I empathize, but I don't sympathize. Imagine how terrible graduation would have been if 2 of them were there but the third wasn't because they were in the hospital or even the cemetery. No, you're right, it didn't happen. But please reference item D above for the re-rebuttal of that comment.

F) You have posted too much insanity for me to be able to recall everything that needs a response.

 

[Planogirl]

SpaceMonkeyMC, wrong on one count at least. I'm almost twice your age. I know that the name doesn't fit but it's an old one now.

I just find it odd that someone 18-21 can be drafted and shot at, can live on their own, marry and so on but they get all of this nonsense if they have a few drinks. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be punished, far from it, but I can see why some people might think that the punishment does not fit the crime in this case.

I also find it odd that they can be strongly prosecuted for drinking up until the day before they turn 21 but on that 21st birthday suddenly they're prepared to handle drinking. I'd personally like to see some middle ground myself.

 

[DisneyPhD]

I'm not following your point at all. Because I drank underage, I have some sort of problem life? You don't know me, of course, and have to take my word for it, but that's not how it turned out at all for me. (Nor for any of my friends, who are accountants, teachers, journalists, etc.) I have a great life...partly because it wasn't railroaded by a school official with an agenda. (Of course, I never got caught doing anything...partly because the school administration wasn't out to get us. There were no cops at my graduation or prom. And no problems, either.) And I was actually 18 and legal at my graduation, as were most of my classmates. And yet, we didn't show up drunk for the ceremony.

I agree with Planogirl. Being 18 to 21 these days is hard. You're an adult, and yet, not. And if you step out of line at all, it's a lot harder to get your life back on track.

You are right, I don't know you and I all I know is what you are telling me. I am not saying that you have a "problem in your life" but I am saying that in my experence many people who support drinking the way you are doing, more times then not, do have a problem with it. Also you say that your friends don't. That is only what you know of them and their jobs. It is also very possible that they do in fact and you don't know about it. How often have people been suprized to find out someone is an alcholic? (or a wife beater, drug user, the list goes on.) It is also in your view you don't have a problem, as many of us have stated, others views are very different. Is it possible that your life is none the wrose for underage drinking? Yes, but it is also possible it could of been better with out. No teen is ever going to grow up and regret not getting wasted at their prom.

I think we can all agree being 18 is hard. That is why 18 year olds need the support, encouragement, limits and boundries that adults (and our court systems if needed) should provid for them. Saying "I did it, lots of kids do it, so it is ok and we should be easy on them" isn't helping.

 

[christineann]

Regarding the debate about drinking before you are 21 vs. on or after your 21st birthday: let's look at the same restriction on driving. If we apply the same logic (?), shouldn't we look the other way if a 12 year old gets caught driving even if he doesn't get in an accident though it is clearly against the law for another 4 years or so? It's all about maturity and the ability to make good decisions.

I know some pretty mature 18 year olds and some pretty immature 20 year olds. A drinking age of 21 prevents at least some of the immature pre-21 year olds from indulging in something they can't handle. Most human beings do mature to another level in the years between 18 and 21.

 

[DisneyPhD]

SpaceMonkeyMC, wrong on one count at least. I'm almost twice your age. I know that the name doesn't fit but it's an old one now.

I just find it odd that someone 18-21 can be drafted and shot at, can live on their own, marry and so on but they get all of this nonsense if they have a few drinks. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be punished, far from it, but I can see why some people might think that the punishment does not fit the crime in this case.

I also find it odd that they can be strongly prosecuted for drinking up until the day before they turn 21 but on that 21st birthday suddenly they're prepared to handle drinking. I'd personally like to see some middle ground myself.

Planogirl, consider the age thing a complament! You are only as old as you feel.

The reason is the line has to be drawn somewhere. It is 21, so up until that age that is what the law says. It is the same thing for rights of 18 year old (voting, smoking, etc..)

As far as being prepared for it at 21, that is the job of the families, schools, community. I think the schools is doing a pretty good job, (from what I hear from my niece and read about it.) Families may or may not ( I know I will take my resposnibilty seriously.) One way for me is my personal choice not to drink (and DH) setting an example. It takes more then that, like talking and educating about drinking. Another reason I don't drink is my career. To help people in my job stop drinking (and other substance abuse) and go get drunk myself, after work would be hypocrical in my opinon.

As far as communites, or at least the media, I think we are doing a terrible job helping youth grow up to learn to be respoinible towards drinking. (becuase remember people who drink beer are more sexy, fun and all around better, or at least that is what the adds say. And a lot of money goes into getting the message across.)

Once again not all people who drink are a drinking problem. However, if you don't want to develope one, not drinking all together is a much safer bet.

The idea is that 21 year old adults should be mature enough to drink resposnibilly and that the goverment is no longer going to moniter it. As we all know many adults have problems with it too. However if we go to an AA meeting most will tell you it started before they were 21 years old.

 

[SpaceMonkeyMC]

SpaceMonkeyMC, wrong on one count at least. I'm almost twice your age. I know that the name doesn't fit but it's an old one now.

I just find it odd that someone 18-21 can be drafted and shot at, can live on their own, marry and so on but they get all of this nonsense if they have a few drinks. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be punished, far from it, but I can see why some people might think that the punishment does not fit the crime in this case.

I also find it odd that they can be strongly prosecuted for drinking up until the day before they turn 21 but on that 21st birthday suddenly they're prepared to handle drinking. I'd personally like to see some middle ground myself.

My apologies on the generalization. I can sort of understand the military reference, mostly because its a common one. However.....they can't be drafted (unless Charlie Rangel has his way) and all of those other things (living on your own, marrying, etc) are things that are chosen, and don't put anyone else in harms way.

I would agree with you on the middle ground issue but thats impossible to legislate. If you set a standard then there's always someone left out of it who feels neglected and like they ought to be included. So you always get a "but why can't I drink until tomorrow when I turn 21" I 'm no more responsible then. This is true. Look at how many kids turn 21, get smashed and die from car wrecks or alcohol poisoning, possible taking friends lives and other's in the process. So we change the law to say "within 3 weeks of turning 21". Well then people who are 4 weeks away make the same valid complaint. And we keep pushing it back, but there's not end because someone can always raise that issue.

So, parents who want to let THEIR child (I emphasize their because it should never be legal to let child A's parents allow child B to drink at their house) is perfectly fine in my book. But, the law should not be expected to make similar accomodations because in situations like that the law as a whole can not and should not be expected to apply leaniency like an individual could.

 

[froglady]

SpaceMonkeyMC, wrong on one count at least. I'm almost twice your age. I know that the name doesn't fit but it's an old one now.

I just find it odd that someone 18-21 can be drafted and shot at, can live on their own, marry and so on but they get all of this nonsense if they have a few drinks. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be punished, far from it, but I can see why some people might think that the punishment does not fit the crime in this case.

I also find it odd that they can be strongly prosecuted for drinking up until the day before they turn 21 but on that 21st birthday suddenly they're prepared to handle drinking. I'd personally like to see some middle ground myself.

BTW, the draft was abolished.

And why is a teenager NOT mature enough to vote/marry/enlist/live independently the day before he turns 18, but is suddenly able to after midnight? There is always a cutoff, and they're chosen for a variety of reasons. The drinking age WAS lowered to 18 in most states at the same time the voting age was lowered...due to the argument you presented above. However, most states raised it back to 21 within the next decade. I suspect they discovered that letting HS students drink legally was not such a great idea after all. Perhaps it should be an experience rather than age related privilege? If you've graduated from HS, you can legally drink. If not, no go regardless of your age.

 

[jodifla]

Planogirl, consider the age thing a complament! You are only as old as you feel.

The reason is the line has to be drawn somewhere. It is 21, so up until that age that is what the law says. It is the same thing for rights of 18 year old (voting, smoking, etc..)

As far as being prepared for it at 21, that is the job of the families, schools, community. I think the schools is doing a pretty good job, (from what I hear from my niece and read about it.) Families may or may not ( I know I will take my resposnibilty seriously.) One way for me is my personal choice not to drink (and DH) setting an example. It takes more then that, like talking and educating about drinking. Another reason I don't drink is my career. To help people in my job stop drinking (and other substance abuse) and go get drunk myself, after work would be hypocrical in my opinon.

As far as communites, or at least the media, I think we are doing a terrible job helping youth grow up to learn to be respoinible towards drinking. (becuase remember people who drink beer are more sexy, fun and all around better, or at least that is what the adds say. And a lot of money goes into getting the message across.)

Once again not all people who drink are a drinking problem. However, if you don't want to develope one, not drinking all together is a much safer bet.

The idea is that 21 year old adults should be mature enough to drink resposnibilly and that the goverment is no longer going to moniter it. As we all know many adults have problems with it too. However if we go to an AA meeting most will tell you it started before they were 21 years old.

So, you don't think that your view is a bit skewed because of your job?

 

[jodifla]

Agreed, being 18 is hard. Its even more difficult when you make choices that you KNOW for a fact can easily get you in trouble. These girls did so. Planogirl is likely in the age of 18-21. Being 24 myself I can tell you that my attitude is radically different than it was when I was 18. So she's wrong that kids at that age have made their attitudes and parents can't reach them.

No one has touched on the fact that on about page 5 you indicated you thought it was illegal search and seizure. Thats easily the most ridiculous thing you've posted. They had reasonable cause. If those other kids didn't want to be lumped in with the drunk kids, then they should have either not had a sip of alcohol or told their friends to not do that. Its obvious that they all planned to do this. The alcohol didn't just appear in the limo.

Maybe you feel your life turned out great because it wasn't "railroaded" by someone with an agenda. Yet think of all the kids whose lives end up shortened or useless because no one bothered to teach them lessons. If you made it out ok without shool official intervention then odds are you were 1: a good kid anyways or 2: had good parental role models. Parents are responsible for teaching their kids about alcohol awareness. School officials are responsible for enforcing the states laws and keeping the students safe while in their care.

A) The law doesn't say "underage drinking is ok as long as you're not a behavior problem". Allowing even mildly intoxicated underage students to continue would have been dereliction of duty and put school officials in precarious legal positions.

B) Cops weren't checking alcohol at your prom because it was legal. Please learn to differentiate the two.

C) You finding that a law is hypocritical does not mean you can choose to ignore it. If you want it changed used the system of political redress.

D) You love to decry people giving instances of things that could have happened because of drinking by saying "rape didn't happen here..." etc. And why is that? Because there was intervention. No, it didn't happen, but that doesn't mean it is certain that it wouldn't have. So congratulations, without even knowing you are in agreement that the actions of the school officials prevented further travesty.

E) You feel sorry for the poor kids who missed their graduation after breaking rules that they knew had consequences. I know it stinks for them, I empathize, but I don't sympathize. Imagine how terrible graduation would have been if 2 of them were there but the third wasn't because they were in the hospital or even the cemetery. No, you're right, it didn't happen. But please reference item D above for the re-rebuttal of that comment.

F) You have posted too much insanity for me to be able to recall everything that needs a response.

Yes, I was a good kid. And I wasn't turned into a criminal by starting drinking before 18, because there wasn't this zero tolerance hysteria out there. I think the punishments are way out of line with the initial "crime." I think they should have been sent home from the prom and their parents called, and leave it at that. That's the initial place to start.

And at my prom, some kids were legal, some not. Makes for even a more potentially loaded situation, but the school didn't have cops there checking everyone. Under your scenario, everyone should have been tested at our prom because hey, half of us had the potential to have alcohol.

I find it surprising that everyone is so happy that we're turning our society into a police state, led by some school systems. Although I imagine with the way society is today, most school officials feel they have no choice.

 

[DisneyPhD]

Yes, I was a good kid. And I wasn't turned into a criminal by starting drinking before 18, because there wasn't this zero tolerance hysteria out there. I think the punishments are way out of line with the initial "crime." I think they should have been sent home from the prom and their parents called, and leave it at that. That's the initial place to start.

And at my prom, some kids were legal, some not. Makes for even a more potentially loaded situation, but the school didn't have cops there checking everyone. Under your scenario, everyone should have been tested at our prom because hey, half of us had the potential to have alcohol.

I find it surprising that everyone is so happy that we're turning our society into a police state, led by some school systems. Although I imagine with the way society is today, most school officials feel they have no choice.

Yes, things were different back then. This was before Colombine, other school shotings, many rapes on school grounds etc..... Things are much different now. When I was in HS I guy I knew (had breifly dated actually ) brought a hand grenade to school. It had the safety on but still. While it was taken away, he was breifly supspended, not much more happened. He continued to play ont he football team. He brought it because he thought it was cool and wanted to show his friends (he joined the marines right after graduation.) However that was different times.

Last week my niece said it was a big deal because 2 kids brought weapons to school. Turns out it was a pocket knife and a pellet gun. Not what I thought weapons were, but all the kids understood what was and wasn't allowd and they went agaisnt rules they were aware of. They knew the consequcnes. When I was in school we didn't know, becuase before he did this, no one had really thought much about it.

We are living in different times then when we were kids (and the drinking age was 21 as long as I can remember.) I acutally think things were worse in a lot of ways when I was a kid. Teenage drinking was rampit. I think that it acutally is not a common as it was in the 80's because of these rules. (still happens, but not as much. I think over 80% of my class drank on a regular basis.)

Yes, I might have a different view becauase of my job. Not skewed, but more educated.