What the HECK is going on???!!

[yitbos96bb]

MikesMom, I couldn't have put it better myself on all your points (no pun intended). I don't rent my points, but I would think cost per point for renting should be a lot higher since we now have the dining plan. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but to get the dining plan through Disney, you have to buy at least a one day park pass(even if you have an AP). We don't have that requirement. That should be worth something.

My favorite is the "Do I get all the DVC perks even though I'm renting."
Give me a break. Why be an owner if that were true.

Okay, my rant over.

Cyn

The problem comes to the fact that rentals are a free market on DIS. I think points should go for more right now as well, but as long as some owners are willing to undercut others in an effort to make the sale, this is what we will have. The supply of cheap points looks to be high so they are meeting or exceeding demand and screwing things up for the rest of us.

To bad Dis can't mandate a minimum pricing level on points to post on the board. That would at least keep levels higher. But the more peopel undercut, the more others will match them and drive down the price. Maybe a CR or Poly DVC will help raise rental values.

 

[DrTomorrow]

The problem comes to the fact that rentals are a free market on DIS. I think points should go for more right now as well, but as long as some owners are willing to undercut others in an effort to make the sale, this is what we will have. The supply of cheap points looks to be high so they are meeting or exceeding demand and screwing things up for the rest of us.

To bad Dis can't mandate a minimum pricing level on points to post on the board. That would at least keep levels higher. But the more peopel undercut, the more others will match them and drive down the price. Maybe a CR or Poly DVC will help raise rental values.

I'm guessing that you really don't understand a free market. If the DIS - or Disney - actually stepped in and implemented a minimum price (which I don't think would ever happen and might be illegal) then buyers and sellers would simply move to another "location".

Oh, and add me to the list of folks that are learning quite a bit due to this thread.

 

[waltfan1957]

Is anyone else logging into their computer everyday wincing and hoping this thread has disappeared?

not me i think its funny

 

[yitbos96bb]

I'm wondering about this too. When hubby did some number crunching- he asked why the current going rate isn't $13 a pt (for unrestricted points). At that point the owner at least breaks even with respect to point value as well as maintenance fees. Any thoughts?

Probably because the more members out there the higher the supply of points is, thus making the price stay level or go down.

 

[sajetto]

I'm guessing that you really don't understand a free market. If the DIS - or Disney - actually stepped in and implemented a minimum price (which I don't think would ever happen and might be illegal) then buyers and sellers would simply move to another "location".

Oh, and add me to the list of folks that are learning quite a bit due to this thread.

Add me to the list as one of the learners since my DF and I are considering buying in. And I agree with you in the point that it is not feasible to implement a minimal point price for rental agreements. Besides, very few (meaning those who are not on the DIS boards) know that they can rent points and if they do know that they can, they may not know how. Since most buy into DVC intending to use their points I'm sure that many are happy to just be getting something in the case that they cannot use them for a particular year. However, I'm sure the tune would change the longer they hung around here

 

[yitbos96bb]

I'm guessing that you really don't understand a free market. If the DIS - or Disney - actually stepped in and implemented a minimum price (which I don't think would ever happen and might be illegal) then buyers and sellers would simply move to another "location".

Oh, and add me to the list of folks that are learning quite a bit due to this thread.

Actually I understand the concept of a free market extremely well, thank you very much. The part of fixing the price was not a free market concept nor was it ever insinuated as being one. In fact it was the opposite of a free market.

I don't like people doing drastic undercutting, because it kills value... but I am also not like many of these people who want to yell at the people to stop. As someone said, it is the owner's points to do with what they wish. I would just wish they keep this in mind when setting their prices. But since it is a totally free market with no regulation, undercutting will happen.

As far as the forum fixing a minumum price, it was mentioned as a way to keep value higher. I would never expect Disney to fix a set price... it really isn't their concern. I don't know if Dis could legally... If they could then the stipulation is that if you advertise on this site, you must charge at least this. Then the seller decides whether he wants to use this platform and the regulations required to be followed. If not, he goes elsewhere. My guess is many people would still use this site... it is well known. Kind of like when EBay raised seller fees and added other restrictions... people still used their site.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Add me to the list as one of the learners since my DF and I are considering buying in. And I agree with you in the point that it is not feasible to implement a minimal point price for rental agreements. Besides, very few (meaning those who are not on the DIS boards) know that they can rent points and if they do know that they can, they may not know how. Since most buy into DVC intending to use their points I'm sure that many are happy to just be getting something in the case that they cannot use them for a particular year. However, I'm sure the tune would change the longer they hung around here

I agree it isn't feasible to implement a minimal price point... (I would agree that it would be great to pay no income tax, but again not feasible). I just said it would help keep prices up.

 

[greenban]

I agree it isn't feasible to implement a minimal price point... (I would agree that it would be great to pay no income tax, but again not feasible). I just said it would help keep prices up.

Now here, RE: income tax, we could have a great debate, but alas, the debate board is no more, and politics don't belong on the DVC thread!

-Tony (learning ever so slowly, but still learning!)

 

[yitbos96bb]

FoodLover,

I love you. Are you sure we aren't sisters?

Love Mousesavers, but MAN... the double cheeseburger thing just seems to go a little overboard to me. I mean if it is all you can afford and you have to do it to experience Disney that is one thing... But there is a fine line between frugal and cheap. Not sure why that bothers me and simply cutting the hamburger in half doesn't, but hey...

 

[yitbos96bb]

AMEN!

If I want to rent my points why do you care what I rent them for?? LOL! I just don't get these threadws about "Renting too cheap" So??? Most folks aren't doing this as a money maker and if they are, I don't really care if they don't make as much as they want.


(And Mousesavers is the greatest. I sent one of my friends there and she was SO grateful... it's the best of both worlds. Give your friends leads on saving and get yourself OUT of the equation!)

Well, it is easy to understand WHY someone would care. Just like you wouldn't want your neighbor to sell his house for 20% below market... it lowers the value of your house. However, you are right that it is your points and you can sell them for whatever you want.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Now here, RE: income tax, we could have a great debate, but alas, the debate board is no more, and politics don't belong on the DVC thread!

-Tony (learning ever so slowly, but still learning!)

Wasn't meant as a political statement, just pointing out something that we all would love (I can't think of anyone who wouldn't love not having to pay taxes) BUT would not be feasible. Thought it was a good comparison was all. Just wanted to say that.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Sajetto, please don't think im picking on you, because I am not. I just think your post illustrates how DVC is compared to moderates and values in price, but not in accomodations and amenities.

You went from 11 nights at POR to a 1 bedroom Villa at OKW for less than $100 per night upgrade by renting points. So it is not "just a room" it is a Villa with King Bed, Jacuzzi tub, Full Kitchen, W/D, and full size balcony.

And I personally don't think you were asking too many questions, that's why we are here. And knowing is half the battle! (old Thundercat reference ) We should be welcoming and helpful but from time to time these discussions will come up especially with all the excitement about DVC adding the Dining Plan and the recent incentives.

Best Wishes and Happy Planning

For SHAME, Liferbabe... Knowing is half the battle is a GI JOE PHRASE!!!! They always did the PSAs at the end and it always ended with ...And now I know (or and now you know)... and Knowing is half the battle... GI JOE and then the swell to music (I watched WAY too much TV as a kid.)

Tsk Tsk Tsk ;-)

 

[yitbos96bb]

Not renting my points, I don't really care if they go for $9 or $12 or $1 or $20. But I do have concerns:

1. Members who do rent posts and get a lot of responses that aren't reasonable because people either haven't taken the time to educate themselves, or think that if they ask enough, someone will say yes to $7 a point (my ex husband had that approach to picking up women). Or that someone else will have a BCVs studio for Spring Break. That must be a pain in the back end for members who rent.

2. Our rentees who rent points who have unreasonable expectations and then don't get them met. I've been in a few of the budget board/resort board threads about point rental as well - if one person managed to rent points for $7, a significant number of people think everyone can rent for $7 - that the $10 points are overpriced. I think it wastes their time and causes them disappointment because they believe they can get a standard view at BWVs for October when they start looking for points in June.

3. I think that because people don't really understand what they are getting, that the CMs at the resort often bear the brunt of the education process. Renters who normally stay at Disney resorts are used to the "smile and be nice and you'll get upgraded" approach generally working. They aren't used to having to PAY for extra towels, or not being able to get a rollaway. I suspect a lot of them arrive and wonder why the bed isn't getting made ever day.

To me, its an education thing that won't get resolved because new people come here all the time and they aren't usually informed. But I can see the frustration on both sides.

You know a Renter's FAQ would be good for DIS. SO that NEwbies on both sides (renters and rentee) can get educated.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I will say this thread has some posts that illustrate what I find to be really true of this board. Of all the boards on the DIS this one has the "attitude" Folks on here can be INCREDIBLY rude. If you don'l like a DVC resort prepare to be TRASHED... I have watched folks that I know personally be driven off because they didn't like SSR for example. (One of them got HATE PMS calling her names are banned on the site!) I have had some absolutly HORRID PMs because I don't agree that a handicapped room is the WORST thing that ever happens to you in your life (and if that's the worst that ever happens, you live a charmed life get down on your knees and thank someone!)

I have been really attacked here. Luckily I have the ability to remember that I don't really know most of you...

The only folks that bother me on these boards are those renting for "resale" and using "sob stories', but a little research can find them. I did post some points for rent. One of these folks contacted me. I just pulled up thier past posts and after reading I contacted them and said I didn't think we could work togehter... I gave no reason and that was the end of it.

People were complaining they got a disabled person's room? That seems so wierd... I always liked those rooms. The fact that any water fromt he shower that go on the floor went into the drain rocked! Plus there is a lot of room in the shower as well. Amazing you got nasty PMs for that! I mean, comments on the public forum is one thing, but to actually start PMing the person insults is just wrong.

 

[Dean]

I agree it isn't feasible to implement a minimal price point... (I would agree that it would be great to pay no income tax, but again not feasible). I just said it would help keep prices up.

And you are correct. Anyone that undercuts is hurting many of the owners but that is the way it is. And I've said many times that conspiring to set the price is likely illegal. But anyone coming on and saying they plan to stick to x price themselves is legal and appropriate.

BTW, I'd rather not go to WDW than get a HC unit. But that' just me, but that may change as I get older. Either that or maybe if I meet up with that Bully who beats up members in the laundry room at OKW.

 

[Plutofan]

I just wonder how many renters realize that they are probably losing money renting at the low prices? How many people realized that after amortizing the orginal cost plus annual dues plus mortgage interest that their true cost is probably over $10. If you are lucky to not have a mortgage then if you figure at least a 5% return on your original investment most people would not get a decent return until they sell for over $10. Dont get me wrong I think it is great to have an option to sell off points and people can sell for what ever price they want. The thing that turns my stomach is when people really think they are making a good profit and the renter is the one that is getting the best deal.

 

[Plutofan]

If you want to get the price higher maybe someone should start a poll asking what price have you rented your points at in the past year. If more people see that there are people getting a higher price maybe more would charge it. You could also include in the poll how long did it take for you to sell your points at that price. I think that this information would be interesting. I would do it myself but I am not sure how to set up a poll.

 

[rogerram]

Well, it is easy to understand WHY someone would care. Just like you wouldn't want your neighbor to sell his house for 20% below market... it lowers the value of your house. However, you are right that it is your points and you can sell them for whatever you want.

The only problem with that is the person selling for less would get the sale and has every right to sell or rent for whatever they want for whatever price they want. They own it, like DVC points. If I were to rent and I know what I want for the points, then I advertise what I have to offer. If it is less than the other guy and I rent it out, great. If I am more than another and can't rent , then I need to make an adjustment to my offer. That is basic business. If there were not many points out there and people wanted them, then the price would rise, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. In reference to DIS setting prices, there is no way they could. They don't own my points. If they were to ban people from posting below a certain level here, then they would lose people to another site. I would say they would never get into price fixing. I would think it would be a big legal issue also.

 

[rogerram]

I just wonder how many renters realize that they are probably losing money renting at the low prices? How many people realized that after amortizing the orginal cost plus annual dues plus mortgage interest that their true cost is probably over $10. If you are lucky to not have a mortgage then if you figure at least a 5% return on your original investment most people would not get a decent return until they sell for over $10. Dont get me wrong I think it is great to have an option to sell off points and people can sell for what ever price they want. The thing that turns my stomach is when people really think they are making a good profit and the renter is the one that is getting the best deal.

But there is also the situation where if they have to rent them or lose them and if it means they rent at a lower price to move them, then they are getting what they ask for as opposed to getting nothing and losing your points. If I rented out 100 points at $8 per point to move them quickly and I got $800, then to me that is better than letting my points go to waste and getting $0 for them.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

One thing I wish I would have been able to "crystal ball" when I first bought was how many members were going to be willing to provide low cost WDW vacations to complete internet strangers. All you have to do is mention some sob story in yout R/T board request for your $8/point deluxe vacation (earn an additional $1-2 discount if your request involves a child's illness) . I also didn't anticipate a mega-monster resort being built that would flood the rental market with points (I figured DVC would continue building at all the onsite deluxes, as that appeared to be the trend in 2000). Those were factors I never really thought to put in my calculations. Had they been in the equation, I may have made the decision to buy fewer points and just bottom feed the R/T board for "cheapies" I could transfer into one of my BCV/VWL/HH contracts giving me the 11 month window at my favorite resorts. I realize this is a strategy I could take advantage of in the future, should I sell off some of my contracts.

Many (myself included) bought into the idea of a Vaction Club. We would primarily use DVC resorts, but there were other WDW resorts, DCL, and other trades available. Since the huge jacking of the point exchanges that took place 2001-2 (and still continues), a member really needs to rent to recieve any dollar fairness for a club trade.

Having said all that, with proper planning/strategy you can get $11-15 even here on the DIS R/T board. Rental rates really need to move away from the crazy dollar per point pricing and be more based on: What $$ would Disney get if they sold this reservation? Rental pricing should reflect a percent discount from rack rate (including taxes). A 50% discount from rack rate can equal $12-15/point. Still an incredible deal.