What should Disney do about a Future DVC Availability Problem?

Eldon32

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Something, I've been thinking about: DVC has somewhere around 66,601,014 points in it's system (not counting Riviera) - With DVC being closed from March 20th to June 22nd, you have about 3 months of closure or about 16,650,253 points in "breakage" due to this closure period. Then, with availability being as high as ever; every day that goes by with empty rooms compounds to the problem of points being banked with the intent of future use.

There is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5% of points for cash, and another 2.5% or so in breakage resulting in somewhere in the neighborhood of 95% sustained occupancy (various sources). The only way these 16.6+ million in unused points can go away are either through spending, or expiration. Unfortunately, you can't get back lost time.

The easiest way that I can think of Disney handling this is that after all resorts are up to above maybe 50-75% occupancy, to take the difference in end of year 2019 banked points compared to potentially end of year 2020/2021 banked points and repurchase them, prorated per contract (and maybe even resort). Instead of issuing a potential credit for "reduced dues" due to the closure - apply the credit to a loan the DVC program will draw on (much as it has with insurance deductibles, like the repairs at Hilton Head in the past) for the repurchase, then spread the membership payback over the life of the loan.

If we forget the dues cost at any specific resort, the average 2020 dues across all of them was $7.62. If we assume all 16,650,253 points are dead, that's $126,874,927. Over 10 years at 4% interest that's $154,145,635 total which results in a $15,414,563 yearly payment, or a $0.23 yearly assessment per point over 10 years - when not adjusted for the original resorts dues. There will probably be more banked points than this, I would guess.

The result is that the total "booking power" is reduced to 2019 levels without having to wait years for the points to either be spent (banking year, after year, after year and stuffing rooms to the max) - or having excessive breakage charged to any one individual. At the end of the day, I think buying into a vacation home DVC is like buying into a house. Just because the roof was ripped off during a storm, doesn't mean you still aren't paying property taxes and other expenses on it even though you can't use it. The loss of use here, in my opinion, is one of the risks that was intentionally shifted to the membership by creation of the program - in exchange for a discount over the cash rate.

Does anyone have any opinions for the upcoming competitive booking season(s)?
 
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I'm fairly new at DVC, but some ideas that I'm thinking about (once things get closer to normal) to burn off some of the points inventory:

1) Reduce/Eliminate Cash rooms at the DVC resorts to increase inventory (at least a bit)
2) Create incentives for non WDW points use (Aulani, Hilton Head, Vero, DCL)
3) Create incentives for use of points in non-Disney locations
4) Extend banking period (carry points longer than a year)
5) Allow use of points towards park tickets/event tickets (Don't know if this is legal but I'm blue-skying here)

I don't think they can play around with the dues as that will probably get sticky with the contract language/time share law, but that's not for me to comment too much on.
 
Oh they have just created a 60% discount for Vero cash usage castmembers ... does that answer the problem?
Not going to waste my time hoping Disney fixes this ... but I plan to attend this year Annual Meet for further entertainment. Maybe my guide will be in attendance to share thoughts about future.
 
To be honest, the issue is really ours as owners to deal with and not Disney.

Now, allowing people to bank twice might help fewer members lose points....but, 3 months loss of inventory and longer for AUL and VGC...means points will go unused and expire, for both owners and those owned by Disney,

One thing it appears they have done is use their own points and give Them to owners who had banked 2018 points which would have expired.

I do agree that they could stop anticipating vacancy and pull rooms for breakage farther out than 60 days...which they are allowed to do...but then the fewer rooms rented for cash as breakage, could mean the cap is not reached, which increases dues.

So far, things have been pretty typical for spring and summer bookings and I do wonder if what will happen is some larger rooms will get booked that might not now. I will certainly be booking a few nights in the next year or two in a cabin or bungalow I would not have, as well as more 1 bedrooms vs studios even for my solo trips.

In terms of using points for things like tickets, that is not possible and any type of exchange that involves another division of a Disney agreeing to take the loss and give up revenue is not going to happen, given the losses those divisions are already facing.
 
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Oh they have just created a 60% discount for Vero cash usage castmembers ... does that answer the problem?
Not going to waste my time hoping Disney fixes this ... but I plan to attend this year Annual Meet for further entertainment. Maybe my guide will be in attendance to share thoughts about future.

Well, if the rooms are vacant and not being booked, that revenue does go toward the breakage income. So, having cash guests, especially for the remainder of 2020 does have a benefit for members in terms of dues.

With no DVC cash rooms rented for 3 months, that will certainly impact whether or not that cap is reached. It always has but we have no idea how this year will play out,
 
Well, if the rooms are vacant and not being booked, that revenue does go toward the breakage income. So, having cash guests, especially for the remainder of 2020 does have a benefit for members in terms of dues.

With no DVC cash rooms rented for 3 months, that will certainly impact whether or not that cap is reached. It always has but we have no idea how this year will play out,

I could be wrong but I dont believe there is a year where breakage % has not been met... the number is extremely low for a reason.
 
I could be wrong but I dont believe there is a year where breakage % has not been met... the number is extremely low for a reason.

Correct...but there has never been a year where no DVC rooms were rented for cash either for 3 months or more.. And since spring and summer tend to be lower demand times, that is when you see more rooms being booked by cash guests.

If DVC doesn’t take inventory for those bookings,..which they really don’t need to because bookings are down there as well..,less money,

So, being unprecedented this year, we really have no idea if breakage money will reach 12.5% of the dues budget.

When we get the 2021 bill, that is when we will know for sure if there was a shortfall for 2020, since it was estimated to meet it.
 
Honestly, if DVC doesn't take rooms for cash bookings a good number will just sit empty anyway. Demand for units with points doesn't just spring up for all dates because of surplus points. They already seem to limit what they take in the fall.

People aren't going to clamor for July dates or for early May while the kids are in school just because there are surplus points in system.
 
The other likely bigger concern is that those who had the ability to bank points have done so and will do so for the near future until things return to normal. Id bet that banking of points is astronomically higher for 2020 and 2021, causing a perpetual ongoing lack of avaiability for years to come.
 
Also, use of points for non-Disney locations does not open DVC availability.

When you trade points into RCI or another trade, units from DVC worth equivalent points are made available to that association (RCI) or booked to cash (to pay for the trade; partner associations are not giving accommodation for free).
 
FWIW, I'm not so sure availability will be noticeably worse for those who book during their home resort priority period. 11 month booking for the 2021 fall and winter seasons has just started. We'll soon see.

I don't think DVC should do anything to increase 7 month availability, especially if it negatively impacts the membership as a whole. So far, I don't' think that they have.
 
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The problem with the excess points just means to book your home resort at 11 months out and see if you can change at seven. Don't wait until seven months to try to book something else without booking your home resort. If your home resort is not at WDW, you might be out of luck. Even the Public Offering Statement doesn't guarantee a villa to book when you want to book.
 
The problem with the excess points just means to book your home resort at 11 months out and see if you can change at seven. Don't wait until seven months to try to book something else without booking your home resort. If your home resort is not at WDW, you might be out of luck. Even the Public Offering Statement doesn't guarantee a villa to book when you want to book.

That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about the offsite owners and not being able to use points if home resort owners get themselves booked
 
An assumption being made is that the carry-over of unused points to 2021 will necessarily result in significant excess demand in 2021 and after. So far that is actually not happening in 2021 at either the 11-month or 7-month reservation window, as actual reservations appear to be following prior demand levels at both windows (rooms that were usually available in the past are still available and rooms that had availability issues at either window have the same issue as before).

Reasons why such excess demand may not develop likely include; (a) many members have suffered economic setbacks preventing 2021 trips; (b) many are not making 2021 reservations because of covid health concerns; (c) many are not making reservations because of the covid-related park rules (masks, no parades or nightly events, social distancing, etc.); (d) many are not making reservations because existing covid rules in their state or country significantly impact the ability to travel to WDW.

Also, a hope that things are going to return to normal soon is probably overly optimistic, e.g.: (a) even if a vaccine exists by early 2021, there may be slow distribution lasting well over a year before majority can get it, e.g., two key developers have both indicated there could be severe distribution problems because the vaccines they are developing must be kept in super-cold facilities, thus significantly limiting the number of places to which one could go to get the vaccine; (b) a large percentage of the population may be unlikely to get the vaccine even if it is available, thus resulting in many of those covid-related restrictions at WDW lasting a long time, even into 2022; (c) travel restrictions may still exist, or may be reduced somewhat but not completely done away with, for a long time.

The suggestion that DVC should purchase carry-over, banked points, partly by using amounts of excess dues paid in 2020 is not something likely to occur. If there are in fact paid dues in excess of costs in 2020, the current rules require that the excess be used to offset next years dues. And, even if the rules could be modified (unlikely), they cannot be modified in a way that benefits all those who lost or banked points in 2020, without giving an equal financial benefit to those who have banked nothing and lost no points because every member existing at the end of the year is deem to have an equal right to any excess dues from the year, subject to a difference determined only by the difference in number of points the member owns at a resort.

My guess is that the Disney entities themselves are now looking at covid-related problems as a long-term issue rather than something that will quickly vanish if a vaccine is announced. Suggestions that require DVC to pay money or Disney Resorts and Parks to provide any additional programs that may cost money or incur more losses are not likely things to happen, including because Disney entities have themselves already lost huge amounts of money, and it is likely the accountants are now the ones having a major impact on what should be spent and are focusing mainly on cutting costs, rather than marketing personnel who lean more toward increasing revenue by spending more for favorable programs.

Also, in the face of adversity, Disney in the past, following 9/11 and during the Great Recession, acted the opposite of what one may expect companies to do. It adopted a number of supposed temporary discounts/package programs for cash guests while raising regular prices for hotels and restaurants, making it appear there were real discounts but doing little to lower the actual costs to the public. And DVC, during both times, actually raised the price of points, and during the Great Recession met the downturn in sales by simply lowering the number of points a new member was required to purchase from 160 to 100 and at times as low as 50 or 75, a process that continues today. I am guessing, once things look like they may start getting better at the parks, that Disney Parks and Resorts will be providing some more discounts to cash guests, while possibly raising regular prices to offset the discounts, and I doubt we will see much of anything from DVC that creates any substantial benefits for members.
 
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The easiest way that I can think of Disney handling this is that after all resorts are up to above maybe 50-75% occupancy, to take the difference in end of year 2019 banked points compared to potentially end of year 2020/2021 banked points and repurchase them, prorated per contract (and maybe even resort). Instead of issuing a potential credit for "reduced dues" due to the closure - apply the credit to a loan the DVC program will draw on (much as it has with insurance deductibles, like the repairs at Hilton Head in the past) for the repurchase, then spread the membership payback over the life of the loan.

The Walt Disney Company is not going to reach into its proverbial pockets and compensate owners for lost availability during a global pandemic.

As you pointed out elsewhere, members are not even filling the resorts now that they are open. That's on us, collectively. Disney is obligated to provide the availability. If members choose to not take advantage of the room availability, that's our choice.

I suspect more DVC points expire unused than members would believe. And that will happen with even greater frequency now, as many individuals are more concerned about traveling than they are losing points. The point rental business seems likely to take a hit, so people who own points earmarked for rentals may find themselves unable to get rid of them.

Overall, I suspect this will be a non-issue in a year or two. Supply and demand will drive most experiences. If people cannot find a room to book, they can't use their points. They either get banked or expire.

Does anyone have any opinions for the upcoming competitive booking season(s)?

Book at 11 months. Be flexible. Hope for the best.
 
First I say lets see if there is an issue. There may be a lot more owners than assumed who are willing to take the point loss over concerns of travel and not wanting to rent out. Otherwise I don't think there's necessarily much DVC should do or even can do. Restricting borrowing even further might be a consideration but I'm still wait and see. So far the 11 month and 7 month window doesn't seem much different if there even is any difference.
 
Correct. And I'm starting to wonder about that like I wondered about WDW DVC when other timeshares were open. As I understand there isn't any restriction on Timeshares being open in CA either.

Fair point. Question is what it would cost to run the hotel to support just 50 timeshare villas.
 















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