What is your line in the sand?

[olwyngdh]

I hope that's true and they'll stop building lame duck attractions like Captain Jack Sparrow, Under the Sea, and 7DMT and get back to building cutting edge, feature rich attractions with the potential for decades-long nostalgic value like they started with 40 years ago.

Because it seems they are currently burning thru their existing nostalgic capital rather quickly.

I actually liked Captain Jack SParrow and Under the Sea. Haven't got to ride 7DMT, but am looking forward to it. Disney tries to appeal to a broad range of people and ages. Don't think just because you don't like something that everyone doesn't like it. There are probably things you like that I think are lame, that doesn't mean that Disney should get rid of it, or that I will ridicule it.

 

[robinb]

The metaphor doesn't hold for a business wishing to make money, nor do I see it reflected in reality as I've observed it. As mentioned, my family and I have been around WDW, traveling long distances to get there, since the beginning, only meaning I've seen (and experienced) the changes made at Disney along the way. We are also business owners and entrepreneurs, the "boil them and eat them" model of business makes no logical sense as a formal objective argument. A subjective opinion? Sure, we are all entitled to a subject opinion about a lot of things, though it's helpful to realize it is just that; an opinion.

And, in my humble opinion, a business would not last very long if that was the sum total of their business model, especially one with as much press coverage (and message board coverage) as Disney. They care very much about write-ups and word of mouth, that's why they conduct extensive surveys and do things like read this message board, it is also why they make fixes and changes as needed based on feedback that is statistically significant.

And your entire post is entirely opinion based on your experience, the same as mine. You are trying to bring some business street cred into the equation but you are just muddying your argument.

The difference between most businesses and Disney is that Disney always has another wave of eager parents of young children who want to have a Disney "trip of a lifetime". The new customer is their bread and butter and Disney wants to make it easy for them to spend as much as possible. They don't give a mouse's butt about people like you and me: people who have been at Disney since the beginning, or, in my case since 1997. We are the frogs who are being heated slowly. The new frogs simply jump in and enjoy their 1 week of the Disney hot pot spun as a hot tub and if they are eaten ... who cares? There is always another frog family to take their place. Disney makes plenty of money with one-time customers.

 

[robinb]

I actually liked Captain Jack SParrow and Under the Sea.

You liked Jack Sparrow at DHS? Really? It was a horrible attraction IMO. Under the Sea, OTOH, is cute.I liked the ride in Toyko much better though.

 

[olwyngdh]

You liked Jack Sparrow at DHS? Really? It was a horrible attraction IMO. Under the Sea, OTOH, is cute.I liked the ride in Toyko much better though.

Yep we really enjoyed it. DD12 is interested in being an imagineer, and DH is geeky enough that the technology fascinated both of them and they have spent hours talking about how it was done. I just enjoyed it. I don't know that I would want to do it over and over, but it was kinda cool once. DH and DD12 went back and did it a few more times while DD29 and I went to One Man's Dream.

 

[Laketravis]

Whether you like it or not, it's really about substance. I just watched a video of Test Track that we took of the entire ride in 2010 before it was refurbed.

I was surprised to see how much less substance there is to it now (primarily plywood backdrops and fluorescent paint) compared to what it used to be.

 

[mesaboy2]

You liked Jack Sparrow at DHS? Really? It was a horrible attraction IMO. Under the Sea, OTOH, is cute.I liked the ride in Toyko much better though.

I don't recall an Ariel-based UTS in Tokyo.

 

[olwyngdh]

Whether you like it or not, it's really about substance. I just watched a video of Test Track that we took of the entire ride in 2010 before it was refurbed.

I was surprised to see how much less substance there is to it now (primarily plywood backdrops and fluorescent paint) compared to what it used to be.

I will agree with you on that. Designing your own car is pretty cool, but the ride itself was more interesting/better before the referb. I wish they had just added the design element without changing the ride itself.

 

[Mome Rath]

And your entire post is entirely opinion based on your experience, the same as mine. You are trying to bring some business street cred into the equation but you are just muddying your argument.

My opinion is something that I'm clear on, other people will disagree and present their opposite opinion and that's fine (and fun). I was pointing out that that particular metaphor doesn't fit in its entirety or Disney would be a foolish company, killing off your repeat customers wouldn't work (the poster who used the metaphor clarified they weren't exactly ending the metaphor as the frog dying). It's my opinion that Disney is anything but foolish, and I fully understand not everyone here is going to agree with that.

They don't give a mouse's butt about people like you and me: people who have been at Disney since the beginning, or, in my case since 1997.

I can provide a good premise (evidence/reason) to show that they do care; they made it a point to make questions of trip quantities a part of every Disney survey I've taken after my most recent trips, including the one a few days ago. How many previous trips have you made, how many days total have you spent in the parks, do you plan to return, etc... If they didn't care about us, they wouldn't ask questions specifically designed to give them stats on returning guests, or even if those guests will return. Further, not caring about a substantial segment of your customer base would be a rookie mistake and hurt the bottom line needlessly.

Disney makes plenty of money with one-time customers.

A business like Disney isn't just out to make "plenty of money," it is out to make money in the long run against competitors. If that means spending more money, they'll do it, if it means making a small segment of their "fans" mad in order to make a larger segment happy, they'll do it. However, just because a small segment gets mad doesn't mean they don't care about the larger "class" that small segment is from. In essence they do care about people's "lines in the sand," but only when it becomes statistically significant.

 

[surferdave]

My opinion is something that I'm clear on, other people will disagree and present their opposite opinion and that's fine (and fun). I was pointing out that that particular metaphor doesn't fit in its entirety or Disney would be a foolish company, killing off your repeat customers wouldn't work (the poster who used the metaphor clarified they weren't exactly ending the metaphor as the frog dying). It's my opinion that Disney is anything but foolish, and I fully understand not everyone here is going to agree with that.

I can provide a good premise (evidence/reason) to show that they do care; they made it a point to make questions of trip quantities a part of every Disney survey I've taken after my most recent trips, including the one a few days ago. How many previous trips have you made, how many days total have you spent in the parks, do you plan to return, etc... If they didn't care about us, they wouldn't ask questions specifically designed to give them stats on returning guests, or even if those guests will return. Further, not caring about a substantial segment of your customer base would be a rookie mistake and hurt the bottom line needlessly.

A business like Disney isn't just out to make "plenty of money," it is out to make money in the long run against competitors. If that means spending more money, they'll do it, if it means making a small segment of their "fans" mad in order to make a larger segment happy, they'll do it. However, just because a small segment gets mad doesn't mean they don't care about the larger "class" that small segment is from. In essence they do care about people's "lines in the sand," but only when it becomes statistically significant.

Well, yeah, that's the trick; and better companies than Disney have missed badly on it before.

I'm not sure why you think customer surveys represent evidence of good intentions; the worst of companies send out customer surveys.

 

[Mome Rath]

Well, yeah, that's the trick; and better companies than Disney have missed badly on it before.

Disney has missed pretty badly before, but right now, looking at the numbers and news reports, it doesn't seem they are missing badly right now. May they miss badly in the near or distant future? Sure. Are some people personally saying they are missing badly right now? Sure, but statistics and statisticians care about general questions and answers, not about anecdotal questions and answers. As I stated earlier, they don't care what "Mome Rath" thinks, they care about statistical significance, which is why they use surveys and track our every move.

I'm not sure why you think customer surveys represent evidence of good intentions; the worst of companies send out customer surveys.

I didn't say customer surveys represent evidence of good intentions, I said they represent an interest on Disney's part about return visitors, their opinions, and their future plans. If return visitors were a moot point, they wouldn't waste the time, space, and computing power asking very specific questions to their return (and returning) customers. You can find stats on Disney's return rate (the two sites I found say 70%, one 69%), and also articles in magazines like Business Week focused on how Disney gets customers to return.

I personally hated things like free dining, and the introduction of the biometric scan, but me personally not liking that doesn't matter to Disney, as it shouldn't. Disney is a business ran for profit and to provide a service, and it is by providing that service that makes them the profit. If I don't think they are providing that service, it doesn't matter, however if a statistically significant portion of the population thinks Disney isn't providing that service, then it is a problem for them. I'm also not going to insinuate things about other people because of a difference of subjective opinion about something Disney offers. There are people that love free dining, and that's a good thing... obviously there are lots of people who do. I don't, nor do I think that difference makes those that like free dining ignorant, naive, or oblivious. Everyone likes to talk about their opinions, that's why we have such active and interesting discussion boards online.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

If you don't like the frog metafor, how about a cow - one you milk until it's dry?

 

[Suvadoo]

Disney has missed pretty badly before, but right now, looking at the numbers and news reports, it doesn't seem they are missing badly right now. May they miss badly in the near or distant future? Sure. Are some people personally saying they are missing badly right now? Sure, but statistics and statisticians care about general questions and answers, not about anecdotal questions and answers. As I stated earlier, they don't care what "Mome Rath" thinks, they care about statistical significance, which is why they use surveys and track our every move.



I didn't say customer surveys represent evidence of good intentions, I said they represent an interest on Disney's part about return visitors, their opinions, and their future plans. If return visitors were a moot point, they wouldn't waste the time, space, and computing power asking very specific questions to their return (and returning) customers. You can find stats on Disney's return rate (the two sites I found say 70%, one 69%), and also articles in magazines like Business Week focused on how Disney gets customers to return.

I personally hated things like free dining, and the introduction of the biometric scan, but me personally not liking that doesn't matter to Disney, as it shouldn't. Disney is a business ran for profit and to provide a service, and it is by providing that service that makes them the profit. If I don't think they are providing that service, it doesn't matter, however if a statistically significant portion of the population thinks Disney isn't providing that service, then it is a problem for them. I'm also not going to insinuate things about other people because of a difference of subjective opinion about something Disney offers. There are people that love free dining, and that's a good thing... obviously there are lots of people who do. I don't, nor do I think that difference makes those that like free dining ignorant, naive, or oblivious. Everyone likes to talk about their opinions, that's why we have such active and interesting discussion boards online.[

What numbers a re you refering to? From what I've seen, Orlando tourism in general is up and WDW is benefitting from that. I don't think WDW is drawing crowds because of FP+.

 

[Mome Rath]

What numbers a re you refering to? From what I've seen, Orlando tourism in general is up and WDW is benefitting from that. I don't think WDW is drawing crowds because of FP+.

I don't think I ever argued it is because of FP+, in fact I'm sure there are many factors involved including, but not limited to, the weather in the rest of the country for this winter and last winter, and the bump in tourists going to Orlando.

 

[surferdave]

If you don't like the frog metafor, how about a cow - one you milk until it's dry?

That's brilliant, they should teach it in business school!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_cow

Disney has very much been treating the WDW parks like cash cows for a long time now.

 

[Laketravis]

Disney has missed pretty badly before, but right now, looking at the numbers and news reports, it doesn't seem they are missing badly right now.

"Right now" includes discretionary spending conditions when even ugly Christmas sweaters are flying off the shelves at ridiculous prices. It's entirely possible Disney is seeing increases in spite of themselves.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

in other words "yes people are flocking to the WDW parks in record numbers, but MM+/FP+ still sucks. It'll catch up with them later."

 

[Laketravis]

in other words "yes people are flocking to the WDW parks in record numbers, but MM+/FP+ still sucks. It'll catch up with them later."

I think there are numerous other and greater factors besides "FP" that can take a company like Disney down.

They are enjoying phenomenal success right now in terms of shareholder value and stock price, in large part due to pent-up demand from market sectors that have wanted to spend dollars with Disney but didn't have them until now.

Frankly, this is not a stock any wise investor would consider a buy right now but instead a strong hold - and that could change overnight. (First graph below)

In fact, today's Disney performance reminds me of one of the innovative stars of the 90's due to their involvement in cellular and paging - Motorola.

Their stellar performance in '96-'98 even looks similar to Disney's now (2nd graph below). But look what happened in less than a few years; they are only a glimmer now of what they used to be in large part because their innovative nature was beaten by competitors.

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Marketing communication devices is a little different from marketing theme parks. That is assuming in the future that the theme park going public (in WDW's targeted demographic) will, in essence, decide to go over to a competitor that they feel is more "innovative." Could happen, but it's too early to tell if it will or not.

 

[Laketravis]

Marketing communication devices is a little different from marketing theme parks.

Some would argue the two are very similar in nature and both are sensitive to discretionary spending. Nobody "needs" the latest and greatest phone.......

 

[MakiraMarlena]

No, but you seem to be referring to home use and a lot of phone purchases are by businesses who buy them for their employees and they want the latest and greatest.

Of course you can say that WDW is going to lose customers to competitors who are doing "it" better, whatever "it" is. But you can't say when or if it will happen in numbers big enough to affect WDW's business model.