What do YOU think a liberal is?

[Lanshark]

First define conservative and then go 180 degrees to the left.

IMO, both have become dirty words for some reason. I believe most people are liberal about some issues and conservative on the rest. When averaged out they become a Moderate which is exactly where I sit. No party or politician has ever fully represented my political philosophy.

To me a liberal errs on the side of individuals or groups of individuals. They want government to take care of all equally regardless of contributions or situations. If they err they err on the side of giving too much to too many.

A conservative in the same circumstance might err on the side of the government citing personal responsibility as a contributing factor. If they err they err on the side of giving too little to too few.

These are, of course gross generalizations.

 

[Fitswimmer]

The short answer for me is that someone from the liberal perspective believes that the government is the best solution to all of society's problems. Having worked directly for the government for a number of years, having a father that worked directly for the government for over 35 years and now working for a company that adminsiters government programs I see that the government can do good things, but it also unneccesarily complicates what private companies/organizations can do more simply. I just don't think society's ills can be cured by throwing more taxpayer money at them. We've had a war on poverty since the Johnson administration-that's worked really well. We've had a war on drugs as long as I can remember-that's not doing too well either. Every President that I can remember has called for less reliance on foreign oil-the government hasn't done too hot a job of that. Don't even get me started on education. We've been throwing money at that for as long as I can remember and too many kids still graduate high school not knowing how to read and do simple math.

I'm for government being OUT of people's personal lives. Yes, we need legislation so that the needs of the minority groups among us are addressed, but we don't need the government to tell us who to marry, how to raise our kids or when to have them, what to eat, and how/when or if to worship. I'm also leery of giving the government too much involvement in health care-they screw things up too easily and health care is too important to screw up. Government should encourage people to work hard and make $$, not enable them to stay dependent or punish them for being successful by taxing them.

 

[MushyMushy]

Wow Mushy!!!! Two of the three "subjects that should not be discussed" in one post...religion and politics. Do you want to know my yearly salary too?????

That's for another thread. I also want to know about your sex life.

 

[User Name]

Wow, User Name, you could have saved yourself some time by just typing "liberals = bad, conservatives = good"

Sorry it came across that way.

I do believe that most liberals have VERY good intentions. I believe they see the world in an idealistic setting, because they want it that way.

So do I. But, I don't think the world is "idealistic" and unfortunately "reality" has to supercede.

For example, communism is a wonderful idea. However, it's idealistic and unrealistic, because of human nature.

Hope that clears some things up.

 

[gate_pourri]

Look at some of the programs that liberals have promoted in the last 50 years. As recently as the 1990s, the welfare to work program did exactly what you claim the liberals don't do.

Some conservatives in my neck of the woods (I don't paint ALL conservatives with such a broad brush) believe the poor should only have access to inferior fish. More importantly whatever they do, they shouldn't try to eat their fish at the table next to those who are worthy of the really good fish.

Am I mistake, or wasn’t a major portion of the Liberal hero (Michael Moore’s) movie “Bowling for Columbine” about how evil/wrong/useless/etc. the Welfare to Work program is. How can you say that the Liberals were ‘behind’ that program?

 

[Oreo Cookie]

Am I mistake, or wasn’t a major portion of the Liberal hero (Michael Moore’s) movie “Bowling for Columbine” about how evil/wrong/useless/etc. the Welfare to Work program is. How can you say that the Liberals were ‘behind’ that program?

Michael Moore doesn't speak for me, or any of the liberal friends I have, so I wouldn't call him a "hero" to anyone who has liberal views.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Wow. As a liberal with many liberal friends and some liberal family members, I can say that many views are very skewed on here.

None of the liberals I know want free handouts for people capable of working, none think it's ok for siblings to marry (not that the topic comes up much, but I can pretty safely say this), all but one are pro-choice (I only know one person - of course I may be misinformed or not informed- who has had an abortion and she is a conservative), a few of them do think marijuana should be legalized, many are Christians (one is a minister), a couple are atheists.

Oh, and none are communists!

 

[lovemygoofy]

That's for another thread. I also want to know about your sex life.

I think I'm more comfortable talking my sex life than my political views


I guess I'm more of a purple person than anything else.

I believe in God, Love, the American family and then the American gov't

I think the American gov't is so out of touch with the normal everyday family that it's not even funny. I think that unless we some how bring out the people in poverty to another level that fixing the education system would be useless because so many don't bother to try to learn. I believing in a help hand and a hand to move up. Give them some subsidy but don't just as quickly shut it off when they are finally moving somewhere.

I think in this country the only people that should get American benefits is Americans but I'm one of the few that would be willing to pay the $$ it would cost when the groceries go up.

Gov't shouldn't tell people how to live their lives, how to have sex, for whom to pray, that Im wrong if I don't pray to anyone, and that it's their decision what people do with their bodies. BUT I'm also for the gov't teaching the children some things like sex ed because it certainly isn't coming from all the homes and families as it should.

You do a horrible crime, you go to prison and not a day spa. You don't get internet access and swimming pool time or me paying for you to get your Ph.D in basket weaving. You sit in a 9x9 cell with a partial window blocked by bars on the windows. Have a nice life.

It amazes me how we can't take care of the people in our country but yet expected we should go take care of everyone else in the world

If we go to war, which is sometimes necessary, we go out with all guns blazing and we didn't tiptoe around. You either go and go hard or you stay home.

I guess the one thing I'm very "liberal" about is the money issues in our country. It amazes me the vast difference of the rich and poor. Contrary to many peoples believes(not here on this DIS) I don't think the poor really conspire to be rich, they just want to have to not worry if they can pay for the gas for their beater car, enough $$ for the dollar menu at mcondalds and have enough left to pay the light bill. Hard to fathom for some CEO that is getting a you're fired bonus of a few million. Seriously, if you are fired how in the world do you get an extra going away bonus of a few million?

Is it really the states job to fix what's wrong with the citizens of it's state? This is the United States of America not the United Group of Citizens in TN. Healthcare I just don't see how can be managed state to state but yes I know the gov't can screw it up all to easily.

I think ultimately liberals tend to vote their heart and conscience or as my husband says he votes rational and I vote emotional I however never voted straight ticket for anything and never will.

 

[Soubrette]

I believe liberals are altruistic in helping those less fortunate, however I believe more in individualism and tough love - sort of like "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for the day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime." The liberals will continue to give the fish. Conversely, conservatives will teach a man to fish.

That's crap. Show me the conservative legislation that "teaches a man to fish," to use your metaphor. What kind of resources are put into place for the materials and time spent "teaching a man to fish"? If you look at the way the Bush administration implemented No Child Left Behind, they only set deadlines...you will be able to "fish" by this date or else....but never gave teachers the resources to fulfill the standard.

Liberals regularly introduced programming that would help Americans become better citizens, i.e. "learn to fish" (better educated, better employed, better insured, etc.), but the conservatives shut them down.

It's a tired, over-used, and inaccurate metaphor that is used by conservatives to make themselves feel benevolent without ever having to do anything.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Most of my liberal friends and family have what I consider to be a more idealistic view of the world than I do. A lot of good ideas in my opinion, but not always practical. A few even lean more towards a socialist view of society than a democracy and that makes me nervous. Government has it's place, but I want it to be as limited as possible. I think it should provide reasonable opportunities, without becoming a crutch. I want to know that if I work hard and am willing to make sacrifices, that when I succeed the rewards will be mine. I imagine that liberals might consider that selfish or greedy, but that's just the way I am. I believe in charity, but a helping hand is not the same as a handout. Some people are self-motivated and others are not, and society has be careful about providing too much so that some will never strive to achieve anything on their own. I do agree with the poster about both sides want what is best for the country, but just take different approaches. I never think it is fair to label one side as the compassionate party or any other term that implies the other group cares less about their fellow American.

 

[LuvDuke]

I think I'm more comfortable talking my sex life than my political views


I guess I'm more of a purple person than anything else.

I believe in God, Love, the American family and then the American gov't

I think the American gov't is so out of touch with the normal everyday family that it's not even funny. I think that unless we some how bring out the people in poverty to another level that fixing the education system would be useless because so many don't bother to try to learn. I believing in a help hand and a hand to move up. Give them some subsidy but don't just as quickly shut it off when they are finally moving somewhere.

I think in this country the only people that should get American benefits is Americans but I'm one of the few that would be willing to pay the $$ it would cost when the groceries go up.

Gov't shouldn't tell people how to live their lives, how to have sex, for whom to pray, that Im wrong if I don't pray to anyone, and that it's their decision what people do with their bodies. BUT I'm also for the gov't teaching the children some things like sex ed because it certainly isn't coming from all the homes and families as it should.

You do a horrible crime, you go to prison and not a day spa. You don't get internet access and swimming pool time or me paying for you to get your Ph.D in basket weaving. You sit in a 9x9 cell with a partial window blocked by bars on the windows. Have a nice life.

It amazes me how we can't take care of the people in our country but yet expected we should go take care of everyone else in the world

If we go to war, which is sometimes necessary, we go out with all guns blazing and we didn't tiptoe around. You either go and go hard or you stay home.

I guess the one thing I'm very "liberal" about is the money issues in our country. It amazes me the vast difference of the rich and poor. Contrary to many peoples believes(not here on this DIS) I don't think the poor really conspire to be rich, they just want to have to not worry if they can pay for the gas for their beater car, enough $$ for the dollar menu at mcondalds and have enough left to pay the light bill. Hard to fathom for some CEO that is getting a you're fired bonus of a few million. Seriously, if you are fired how in the world do you get an extra going away bonus of a few million?

Is it really the states job to fix what's wrong with the citizens of it's state? This is the United States of America not the United Group of Citizens in TN. Healthcare I just don't see how can be managed state to state but yes I know the gov't can screw it up all to easily.

I think ultimately liberals tend to vote their heart and conscience or as my husband says he votes rational and I vote emotional I however never voted straight ticket for anything and never will.

Well said.

Seriously, have you ever thought about running for office?

Btw, there's nothing wrong with voting your conscience. Ultimately, we all have to live ourselves and the consequences of what we do. That's conscience.

 

[Liberty Belle]

That's crap. Show me the conservative legislation that "teaches a man to fish," to use your metaphor. What kind of resources are put into place for the materials and time spent "teaching a man to fish"? If you look at the way the Bush administration implemented No Child Left Behind, they only set deadlines...you will be able to "fish" by this date or else....but never gave teachers the resources to fulfill the standard.

Liberals regularly introduced programming that would help Americans become better citizens, i.e. "learn to fish" (better educated, better employed, better insured, etc.), but the conservatives shut them down.

It's a tired, over-used, and inaccurate metaphor that is used by conservatives to make themselves feel benevolent without ever having to do anything.

Bravo! I completely agree.

 

[mirror mirror]

Liberal, Conservative....I just wish people would actually use their minds and think hard about the issues and make an educated vote. Enough of this voting just based on the party.

 

[User Name]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soubrette
That's crap. Show me the conservative legislation that "teaches a man to fish," to use your metaphor. What kind of resources are put into place for the materials and time spent "teaching a man to fish"?

Bravo! I completely agree.

Thank you for proving my point.

Big Government vs. individual responsibility.

Conservatives don't believe in legislating it. It's not the government's responsibility - it's YOURS.

And, lovemygoofy, almost your entire post is "conservative" thinking. I know a lot of people who have such an imbred dislike for "conservatives", however they truly have conservative values - they just refuse that label.

 

[lovemygoofy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soubrette
That's crap. Show me the conservative legislation that "teaches a man to fish," to use your metaphor. What kind of resources are put into place for the materials and time spent "teaching a man to fish"?


Thank you for proving my point.

Big Government vs. individual responsibility.

Conservatives don't believe in legislating it. It's not the government's responsibility - it's YOURS.

And, lovemygoofy, almost your entire post is "conservative" thinking. I know a lot of people who have such an imbred dislike for "conservatives", however they truly have conservative values - they just refuse that label.

Thanks, I think, but my inlaws who are very consertative Republicans who follow GWB to the firey depths of hell think I'm so far the other side I need to keep my maiden name. They stare at me like they see two heads but I just think they have hair envy. it happens alot

 

[smartestnumber5]

Well I would have to distinguish "liberal" in the sense of political philosophy and "liberal" in the sense of everyday politics. (I am a liberal in both senses.)

In terms of political philosophy I would say John Rawls is the epitome of a liberal. He approaches political philosophy as asking the fundamental question "How can we all live together on terms of equal respect and equal dignity given that we have so many diverse and conflicting understandings of the good life? What kind of government should we create such that everyone has the *real* opportunity to purse what they concieve of as the good life?" He comes up with a few general principles in order of importance:
1) The Liberty Principle: each person is to have an equal right to the most extensive scheme of equal basic liberties compatible with a similar scheme of liberties for others
2) Social and economic inequalities must be such that
a) Equal Opportunity Principle: offices and positions must be open to everyone under conditions of fair equality of opportunity
b) The Difference Principle: they are to be of the greatest benefit to the least-advantaged members of society


In terms of everyday politics here are some of the things I believe (and which I characterize as liberal beliefs):
- I believe that governments are, by definition, coercive institutions. They use force to make us do what they want. Therefore, we should be careful regarding what we let them do.

- I believe that above all the government's job is to provide the basic structure of society such that each of us has equal access to the greatest amount of liberty possible. These liberties are in regards to what to do with our bodies and our minds (freedom of conscience, religion, association). I do not think that there are any basic liberties which have much to do with economic freedom, because a government could choose a variety of economic systems which would not violate these basic liberties. Because it's purpose is, at root, to allow us all the opportunity to pursue our own version of a good life, the government must remain netural regarding what a good life is.

- I believe that there is nothing natural or inherently good about any economic system. We have a choice of a variety of economic systems and how good they are is a matter of how well they work in practice. In practice the economic system which our society has chosen consistently leaves some people in poverty with little chance to get out of it. Our society is responsible for this; we are the cause of the poverty inasmuch as we chose the economic system, and therefore we have responsibilities to those who are impoverished and otherwise economically disadvantaged.

- I believe the constitution has to be viewed as a living document on pain of ridiculousness.

- I believe that our government should, for the most part, not be punishing victimless crimes. But I believe that whether or not a crime is victimless is a matter of the genuine consent of the parties involved. (Yes I do think pot should be legalized since I think it is much less dangerous than alcohol or cigarettes.)

- I believe that since social science studies have shown over and over again that discrimination based on race and gender is still occuring in academics and the workplace, having laws which mandate color and sex blindness is simply ignoring the problem, and is therefore contributing to injustice.

- I believe that so far as the govt is concerned marriage is nothing but a legal contract, and thus there should be no more restrictions on it than there are on other similar kinds of legal contracts.

- I believe that in a wealthy society like ours access to proper healthcare is a right, not a privilege and we are moral monsters for allowing children to go without health care. (I also believe that if all of Western Europe can figure out a working system for this and we can't we must be really, really stupid.)

- I believe that our public education system should not be funded by local taxes, since this just leads to underfunding of schools in low income areas. I believe that comprehensive, factually accurate, and value-neutral information about sex, abortion, STDs, birth control, etc should be taught in public schools.

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[Soubrette]

Thank you for proving my point.

Big Government vs. individual responsibility.

Conservatives don't believe in legislating it. It's not the government's responsibility - it's YOURS.

You've said very little and contradicted you're own metaphor. I thought you were going to teach me to fish...now it's my own individual responsibility to learn how to fish for myself? Suppose I don't live by a lake...maybe someone else owns the lake and has denied public access to it? What then, Mr. Benevolent?

We live in a democracy, and part of being a citizen of a democracy is agreeing to a social contract where you agree to hand over issues of community leadership to a centralized government that is given the responsibility to create/enforce laws and provide resources for the public good. And if our metaphorical economy is based on fishing, then all citizens need access to the lake. Give everyone access and THEN we can start talking about individual responsibility.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soubrette
That's crap. Show me the conservative legislation that "teaches a man to fish," to use your metaphor. What kind of resources are put into place for the materials and time spent "teaching a man to fish"?


Thank you for proving my point.

Big Government vs. individual responsibility.

Conservatives don't believe in legislating it. It's not the government's responsibility - it's YOURS.

And, lovemygoofy, almost your entire post is "conservative" thinking. I know a lot of people who have such an imbred dislike for "conservatives", however they truly have conservative values - they just refuse that label.

Well then your metaphor doesn't really work for you. What you really want is for people to teach themselves to fish. I think working closely with people (according to individual needs) while they learn, with my help, to fish is the way to go. Those who are able and inclined to teach themselves to fish would have already done so. But no, I don't want to throw fish at people while they sit in their lawn chairs and only raise a finger to tell me they want more. That is not what being a liberal is about.

 

[Laz]

The words "Liberal" and "Conservative" have been hijacked by the extreme of the opposing sides and used to paint a very negative picture of the political parties. The media has hyped this for their own ratings.

 

[Mugg Mann]

I wish I could properly cite the original source of this, but I think it speaks volumes and sums up the debate in this thread pefectly....

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his workday. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.

Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our
lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."