What can DCL do to make their pricing "worth it"?

[squirk]

Well I do think at least that % of cruise fare supports all the kids clubs, because some adult activities have a surcharge TASTING, SPAS, ETC.

I see where you are coming from, but that's a slippery slope, no? Should a person in a wheelchair get a discount because they can't use the AquaDuck? Should a blind person get a discount because they can't fully experience FunnelVision or the live shows? If so, how much of a discount?

Also, giving childless travelers a 15% discount across the board could (and likely would) be viewed from the other side of the fence as a 15% surcharge for traveling with your kids, who as DahliaRW pointed out, don't sail free. That would go over like a lead balloon, I think.

 

[mevelandry]

I see where you are coming from, but that's a slippery slope, no? Should a person in a wheelchair get a discount because they can't use the AquaDuck? Should a blind person get a discount because they can't fully experience FunnelVision or the live shows? If so, how much of a discount?

Also, giving childless travelers a 15% discount across the board could (and likely would) be viewed from the other side of the fence as a 15% surcharge for traveling with your kids, who as DahliaRW pointed out, don't sail free. That would go over like a lead balloon, I think.

Instead of a discount for adults only, I'd be willing to go for less expensive/smaller staterooms (for 2) that would have non-split smaller bathroom.

 

[momof2n2]

That brings up a good point regarding the Disney brand. If you are new to cruising, who would you be more apt to trust with your vacation dollar - Disney or someone else?

I would bet that most families would go with Disney, even though it costs more. And if you go DCL and love it, won't you be inclined to stick with what you know works for your next cruise, even though it costs more, rather than take a chance on another line?

I mean, cruising in general isn't particularly cheap. Is the DCL price premium worth paying in exchange for (what you see as) a "sure thing"?

Whether you think it is or isn't, I wonder if that is Disney's strategy - to get their claws in you first so you never want to leave.

Back when DH and I were young and had only 1 child we did a 3-night Wonder. We wondered if we'd like cruising and, like you say, if you're going to try it, do it with Disney.

We had such a great time it was always our "someday" plan to go back. We almost took our 4 kids in 2007 for our 10th anniversary but we bought a bigger house instead... (not hyperbole)
We finally decided that despite the enormous pricetag we'd make the plunge and take our now six kids on a DCL in 2014. It was amazing. It was 15 months ago and we can't stop talking about it.
But it turned us on to cruising. And we haven't done enough DCL to make us want only DCL, if that makes sense. We are trying NCL next year b/c the ship looks so darn fun, and the ports take us to Central America. (Yeah - and we so aren't going to do a land-based vacation there.)

So maybe it was better for us to get in on the DCL fun late?

 

[Rogillio]

There will always be people who can afford to fly first class and stay at Raddison hotels and eat at Ruth Chris's. Disney is Disney and frankly has no direct competition. Now if Universal or Pixar or some other entertainment company built a 'themed' cruise ship directed at kids....and families, then they might have competition.

We sailed first when our youngest was about 5....now he has graduated college and has a steady girlfriend and I'm guessing with 5 or 6 years he will sail with his family. Point being, there is a continuous 'supply' of families and first time cruisers who want the Disney experience.

In short: If you are expecting DCL to drop their prices, you will be disappointed.

BTW, I think a single day at WDW is now about $85....just keeps going up.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

If they added a casino I suspect strongly that prices would stabilize and could possibly go down. Do not underestimate the revenue generated by the other cruise lines in their casinos. Without the casinos they have to make up that revenue elsewhere.

They have clearly decided that raising prices and the anticipated increase in revenue from on-board alcohol sales with the new policy will keep their revenues in a place where their shareholders are happy. Another option is to cross-commercialize, adding specialty restaurants under a different flag (Johnny Rockets, i.e.) or adding a Starbucks, but they have been very reluctant to let any other brands onto their ships. This is bottom line driven, plain and simple. If any other company acted in this way, phasing out the ability of the middle class to afford a brand that claims to be "for the people" there would be outrage, but Disney has brilliantly positioned themselves to be immune from criticism in this area. Disney is an expert in separating people from their money, handing over hard earned dollars without even thinking twice about it. This is one of the strongest stocks on the exchanges and there is a very good reason for that. This is a well oiled machine, not too dissimilar to Standard Oil of the past. This is not your parent's and grandparent's Walt Disney.

If they stayed smoke free, I would honestly not mind a casino that is out of the way. They could even put it on deck 2 with no windows. My husband would LOVE a casino.

I think popcorn and soda at shows should be included.

I value flexibility which seems to be hard to find. The hours on the pools and the strict dining do not offer much in the way of flexibility. I think the "anytime" dining other cruise lines offer sound nice.

Room service breakfast is also something I would like to see.

I'd also like more children's programming outside of kids clubs so parents can interact and tots can participate.

 

[squirk]

Disney is Disney and frankly has no direct competition. Now if Universal or Pixar or some other entertainment company built a 'themed' cruise ship directed at kids....and families, then they might have competition.

Pretty sure Pixar won't be competing with Disney any time soon.

BTW, I think a single day at WDW is now about $85....just keeps going up.

They've already broken the $100 mark for Magic Kingdom. I think that's $105 for a one-day; $97 for the other parks. Of course, Disney will point out that each additional day is substantially cheaper (while breezing over the fact that each additional day is an additional day of lodging and food expenses).

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

I would have to agree with a PP that they would need to provide practically concierge level service to all customers to justify the price difference. My wife and I are huge Disney fans ever since we were young, but if it weren't for last minute VGT pricing for the cruises out of Galveston (1hr from home), we wouldn't take a DCL cruise for the prices they charge. If it's so vitally important to have the characters, etc...I would hazard a guess that with the $$ you save by cruising with another line, you could spring for a trip to the parks.

Absolutely this and we are big on characters and honestly found the character interaction on the cruise to be subpar for what we're used to in WDW. I think its the nature of the friends working double duty but it's not as strong of a selling point for us.

We can do a park trip between 1200-1500 by maximizing discounts and still eat at the more expensive restaurants on site. If the other cruise is $1500 cheaper, two trips is a no brainer for us.

 

[eskimoinparadise]

Pretty sure Pixar won't be competing with Disney any time soon.



They've already broken the $100 mark for Magic Kingdom. I think that's $105 for a one-day; $97 for the other parks. Of course, Disney will point out that each additional day is substantially cheaper (while breezing over the fact that each additional day is an additional day of lodging and food expenses).

We used to have annual passes to WDW until they raised the price so high that we could take an additional cruise each year for the same price as two annual passes. So we stopped renewing our passes

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

They sell bagged popcorn which is probably more expensive and definitely not as good. If only they had a popcorn machine on board!

There was a popcorn machine on the Fantasy in March. I assumed all ships had one. But seriously, it should have been free!!

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

That's a really good point. That's true for lots of people. But it's not how WE vacation. We like to try new things. And I know for a fact there are lots of us here on this board. I would hate to only do one thing because it's what I trust and miss out on the whole rest of the world.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone for wanting a sure thing for their hard-earned money. Not at all! What I do begrudge is people who have only done one thing, one way saying it's the best way. They can't possibly know that. They can love it--that can be objectively true and no one can argue with that. But they can't say no one else can deliver a comparable (not identical, but comparable, just as good--maybe even better!) product until they've tried them all. Unless you sail solely for only Disney characters and decor, there are plenty of other ships that are comparable. People deserve to know tha t. Even on a Disney discussion board

I think in the case of trying a cruise but trusting disney with vacation dollars, you are very much trying something new. Our first cruise to the Caribbean was a very different experience for us than park trips, because we had neither cruised not been to the Caribbean before.

Having said that, not that we've sailed with Disney and are more familiar with how cruising works (a little) we would be more comfortable trying another line. But for that first cruise, knowing we trusted Disney was part of our decision criteria, and it was still a new experience for us!

 

[Ofinn]

What I would like to see is a 15% discount for people traveling without children. A better choice in the wine lists, afternoon tea for free. So after 6 cruises and one coming up in September will have to think about traveling another cruise line.

I'd like to see kids sail free.

 

[gotomu212]

I'm not sure where the stats on the other ships come from, but I'll take them as a given.

I qualified my statement with "families", so I am not sure how many "first-time" cruisers in your stats are family households vs. couples and/or singletons. I have zero stats to support this, but I am guessing that DCL gets a higher-than-industry-average percentage of first-time cruising families. I could be totally wrong, I admit.

My larger point, however, is that Disney is a trusted brand that families might find is worth the premium if it has the best chance of delivering on what is promised. And if it does deliver, then people might be loathe to switch lines and risk fixing what ain't broke.

I'm not saying this is how people should or should not think. I just wonder if this is the DCL strategy.

This really is SO interesting and I would love to read a book on all of these marketing, branding, pricing discussions. It's so hard to exactly position yourself in the market but I think based on price DCL would NOT have the highest percentage of first time families in the industry. Typically (and no this doesn't apply to the entire market) but typically families with small children are very careful with their vacation dollars. This is because most of them are demographically younger parents, have lower current earnings (either because they are newer to their particular workforce or someone who took time out of the workforce for child rearing) and at this time in their lives are buying homes and/or paying off debt. For this reason they are more price sensitive. Without knowing if cruising is for them I think they are less likely to choose a pricey line instead of a more budget friendly cruise line which still has AWESOME kid features.

The golden market for vacation dollars are DINKs or your career singles. It's just really really fascinating and I would love to see the cruise markets demographics and market data.

 

[squirk]

This really is SO interesting and I would love to read a book on all of these marketing, branding, pricing discussions. It's so hard to exactly position yourself in the market but I think based on price DCL would NOT have the highest percentage of first time families in the industry. Typically (and no this doesn't apply to the entire market) but typically families with small children are very careful with their vacation dollars. This is because most of them are demographically younger parents, have lower current earnings (either because they are newer to their particular workforce or someone who took time out of the workforce for child rearing) and at this time in their lives are buying homes and/or paying off debt. For this reason they are more price sensitive. Without knowing if cruising is for them I think they are less likely to choose a pricey line instead of a more budget friendly cruise line which still has AWESOME kid features.

The golden market for vacation dollars are DINKs or your career singles. It's just really really fascinating and I would love to see the cruise markets demographics and market data.

Great post. I, too, think that DINKs are more of a target for other cruise lines. Not that they don't want families too, but I think DCL wants families more.

I hear you about younger families with perhaps less disposable income. But then I see how Disney park attendance keeps going up and up even though prices keep going up and up as well. WDW is not cheap, but families seem to find ways to scrimp and save to do WDW vs. going to their closest Six Flags because the Disney brand conveys a "specialness" that Six Flags does not.

Of course, smarter people than us at Disney have sliced and diced these numbers within an inch of their life, with far more critical analysis than us "armchair economists".

I'm with you - I'd love to see how DCL actuaries price all these things out and assign a dollar value to the Disney brand.

 

[eskimoinparadise]

This really is SO interesting and I would love to read a book on all of these marketing, branding, pricing discussions. It's so hard to exactly position yourself in the market but I think based on price DCL would NOT have the highest percentage of first time families in the industry. Typically (and no this doesn't apply to the entire market) but typically families with small children are very careful with their vacation dollars. This is because most of them are demographically younger parents, have lower current earnings (either because they are newer to their particular workforce or someone who took time out of the workforce for child rearing) and at this time in their lives are buying homes and/or paying off debt. For this reason they are more price sensitive. Without knowing if cruising is for them I think they are less likely to choose a pricey line instead of a more budget friendly cruise line which still has AWESOME kid features.

The golden market for vacation dollars are DINKs or your career singles. It's just really really fascinating and I would love to see the cruise markets demographics and market data.

Great post. I, too, think that DINKs are more of a target for other cruise lines. Not that they don't want families too, but I think DCL wants families more.

I hear you about younger families with perhaps less disposable income. But then I see how Disney park attendance keeps going up and up even though prices keep going up and up as well. WDW is not cheap, but families seem to find ways to scrimp and save to do WDW vs. going to their closest Six Flags because the Disney brand conveys a "specialness" that Six Flags does not.

Of course, smarter people than us at Disney have sliced and diced these numbers within an inch of their life, with far more critical analysis than us "armchair economists".

I'm with you - I'd love to see how DCL actuaries price all these things out and assign a dollar value to the Disney brand.

What Disney will never disclose, and is virtually impossible to know is how many families that fit these demographics are "one and done" cruisers. Living as close as we do to WDW, we have frequent interactions with families who save for years just to do their one Disney trip. IMO, that is both the success and the curse of Disney - they get you addicted, drain you of every $$ you have to spare, and then move on to the next addict. And, they're running low on pixie dust to hook new addicts. Local news just had a story that the star wars land may be delayed by up to five years.

I always found it fascinating from a marketing perspective that even after cruising eight times with Disney in 3.5 years that when we stopped we never heard from them again until we booked our May 2015 cruise. Then they were all over us like flies on rotting meat trying to get us to spend more money with them while on board. After the cruise - nada.

 

[Ofinn]

What Disney will never disclose, and is virtually impossible to know is how many families that fit these demographics are "one and done" cruisers. Living as close as we do to WDW, we have frequent interactions with families who save for years just to do their one Disney trip. IMO, that is both the success and the curse of Disney - they get you addicted, drain you of every $$ you have to spare, and then move on to the next addict. And, they're running low on pixie dust to hook new addicts. Local news just had a story that the star wars land may be delayed by up to five years.

I always found it fascinating from a marketing perspective that even after cruising eight times with Disney in 3.5 years that when we stopped we never heard from them again until we booked our May 2015 cruise. Then they were all over us like flies on rotting meat trying to get us to spend more money with them while on board. After the cruise - nada.

Its been 7 months since our annual passes expired at Universal. Every week I get emails with pin codes for room discounts and the emails usually start with "we'd love to have you back". Our annual passes expired 2 years ago at wdw I havent heard a word from them. Ive never gotten a pin from wdw. Ive never gotten the impression that Disney cares that much about their loyal customers.

 

[Ofinn]

Great post. I, too, think that DINKs are more of a target for other cruise lines. Not that they don't want families too, but I think DCL wants families more.

I hear you about younger families with perhaps less disposable income. But then I see how Disney park attendance keeps going up and up even though prices keep going up and up as well. WDW is not cheap, but families seem to find ways to scrimp and save to do WDW vs. going to their closest Six Flags because the Disney brand conveys a "specialness" that Six Flags does not.

Of course, smarter people than us at Disney have sliced and diced these numbers within an inch of their life, with far more critical analysis than us "armchair economists".

I'm with you - I'd love to see how DCL actuaries price all these things out and assign a dollar value to the Disney brand.

Its interesting because Ive notice a lot more parents on disney ships with young children are in their 30s and 40s. We didnt start having kids until our 30s so I can relate. Some of my friends have kids our kids ages or younger, but many have grown kids. The ones that have kids that are grown didnt take expensive vacations when their kids were young. Very hard to do in your 20's, but they do seem to enjoying their 40's without kids.

 

[squirk]

What Disney will never disclose, and is virtually impossible to know is how many families that fit these demographics are "one and done" cruisers. Living as close as we do to WDW, we have frequent interactions with families who save for years just to do their one Disney trip. IMO, that is both the success and the curse of Disney - they get you addicted, drain you of every $$ you have to spare, and then move on to the next addict. And, they're running low on pixie dust to hook new addicts. Local news just had a story that the star wars land may be delayed by up to five years.

Yep. I agree with you 100%. We are LONG past the time of Uncle Walt driving the company with the idea of giving people a great time for a great time's sake. With all due respect to Bob Iger and Tom Staggs, it's all sharks in suits now, where shareholder value trumps all, and delivering a "magical" vacation is just a means to that end.

That having been said, I think there are people in the company - a lot, in fact - who do work very hard to deliver the best vacation experience possible for the pleasure it brings guests, not how it benefits the company's bottom line. I won't get as sappy as saying "Walt's spirit lives on in these Cast Members", but I think there's some truth to that sentiment.

And the parks & ships are pretty awesome.

 

[steves100]

Get rid of NEW alcohol policy!!

 

[MillauFr]

I am just surprised they haven't built any new ships. For as much as they are charging their profit margins have to be pretty high.

 

[gotomu212]

What Disney will never disclose, and is virtually impossible to know is how many families that fit these demographics are "one and done" cruisers. Living as close as we do to WDW, we have frequent interactions with families who save for years just to do their one Disney trip. IMO, that is both the success and the curse of Disney - they get you addicted, drain you of every $$ you have to spare, and then move on to the next addict. And, they're running low on pixie dust to hook new addicts. Local news just had a story that the star wars land may be delayed by up to five years.

I always found it fascinating from a marketing perspective that even after cruising eight times with Disney in 3.5 years that when we stopped we never heard from them again until we booked our May 2015 cruise. Then they were all over us like flies on rotting meat trying to get us to spend more money with them while on board. After the cruise - nada.

This! For most businesses the old adage that it costs so much more to get a new customer versus keeping an existing customer applies. The Disney market is way more inelastic than most and I agree that for many families a trip to Disney is a bucket list event. However in 2015 customers are very savvy and have access to a lot more information than they used to and comparing cruise costs took me literally 6 minutes and didn't involve a TA or expert. Plus word of social media mouth and online reviews count for a lot with the upcoming millinials (which sounds really young but the first wave was born starting in 1981 and that makes them 34-they are starting to have children and establish families). A look at the DCL FB page shows a tsunami of very upset guests this week and Disney has been so incredibly slow to react to it.

IDK if I was in charge of marketing or PR for DCL I'd be getting nervous. Maybe they can ride out the storm, but their lack of response to social media has broken every modern rule of PR right now, and their canned response that they are just like the mass market lines is a bad, bad move. This may go down as an amazing Harvard Business Case on how not to handle customers (or maybe the adverse and the study will show not to get spooked by initial feedback).