What are your thoughts on NCLB?

[castleview]

Here in Connecticut, we are suing the feds over NCLB. We have the CMT tests here (which take up too much class time IMHO) and that's enough. What's crazy is that no matter how severe the special need for a child may be or if they just arrived here from another country yesterday - that child has to take part in the test.

There was a politician from Utah (who I think is just ignoring the statute) who said "the only way to comply with the law and bring some kids up is to bring the top kids down").

Although the city schools are not in good shape in this state, the suburban schools are fantastic - yet many of them that offer amazing opportunities (Greenwich, Westport, etc.) may get put on the "failing" list because of unrealistic expectations of subgroups.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Who the heck cares what P is if R is true? What bearing does this have on real life? Maybe R is actually false? Who decided it was true?

This is how I feel about statistics courses.

How do I know and why do I care? More importantly--how do you know you know...did you ever actually question the entire population to see if the result was accurate? No, I don't think so. And those 4 or 5 dentists...I bet you just kept asking until you got a group that came out to 4 out of 5.

 

[mrsltg]

This is how I feel about statistics courses.

How do I know and why do I care? More importantly--how do you know you know...did you ever actually question the entire population to see if the result was accurate? No, I don't think so. And those 4 or 5 dentists...I bet you just kept asking until you got a group that came out to 4 out of 5.

I say that all of the time. "A scientific sample of 100 people represents the ENTIRE population of the world. And, they all prefer furry caterpillars to naked ones. We will now begin therapy for the naked caterpillars who are hated the world over..."

Let me bottom line it - I HATE MATH!!!

Erin

 

[puffkin]

I tried to get certified to teach last year, and NCLB made it virtually impossible for me to get certified unless I was willing to go back to school full time for 3 years. I already have a BS in Accounting and will be a certified CPA in a month or two, but I am not qualified to teach high school business? I think a year or so to take education classes is reasonable, but 3 years?????

How can you have a program that makes federal MANDATES, but provides no funding? Yet, schools are then held accountable? I don't get it. I think the average school only receives 30-40% of the funding necessary for NCLB, but yet they are held accountable on a federal level. That is absurd. So then they raise our property taxes to help pay for these mandates, but yet the federal government will not get involved in property tax relief, that is a state issue. What a mess.

The kicker is the special needs kids. They are being forced to take classes like Algebra and Geometry, and then take the tests which brings the scores down and hurts the schools. This is not doing a service to anyone. Most of these kids shouldn't be wasting their time on complex math, they should be learning life skills so that they can become productive members of society and perhaps live on their own or in a group home. But instead, the life skills programs are getting cut and these kids are being "mainstreamed" in order to meet federal standards. This isn't helping anyone, and is probably leaving more children behind.

I live in an area where the school district is one of the 5 in the country suing the government over NCLB, so there is a lot of coverage in our local paper about this topic.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I say that all of the time. "A scientific sample of 100 people represents the ENTIRE population of the world. And, they all prefer furry caterpillars to naked ones. We will now begin therapy for the naked caterpillars who are hated the world over..."

Let me bottom line it - I HATE MATH!!!

Erin

I LOVE Math.

I do not count Statistics as Math (sorry Statisticians).

My Mom and my brother were awful at math. tried sevearl college courses..both of them and just couldn't get a decent enough grade. They both got an A in statistics. Therefor, by my scientific sampling...that must apply to all those who hate math...and therefor, statistics ain't a math.

(Just kidding by the way---I just don't get why I could comprehend Caclulus and Stastitics had me )

 

[castleview]

I tried to get certified to teach last year, and NCLB made it virtually impossible for me to get certified unless I was willing to go back to school full time for 3 years. I already have a BS in Accounting and will be a certified CPA in a month or two, but I am not qualified to teach high school business? I think a year or so to take education classes is reasonable, but 3 years?????

How can you have a program that makes federal MANDATES, but provides no funding? Yet, schools are then held accountable? I don't get it. I think the average school only receives 30-40% of the funding necessary for NCLB, but yet they are held accountable on a federal level. That is absurd. So then they raise our property taxes to help pay for these mandates, but yet the federal government will not get involved in property tax relief, that is a state issue. What a mess.

The kicker is the special needs kids. They are being forced to take classes like Algebra and Geometry, and then take the tests which brings the scores down and hurts the schools. This is not doing a service to anyone. Most of these kids shouldn't be wasting their time on complex math, they should be learning life skills so that they can become productive members of society and perhaps live on their own or in a group home. But instead, the life skills programs are getting cut and these kids are being "mainstreamed" in order to meet federal standards. This isn't helping anyone, and is probably leaving more children behind.

I live in an area where the school district is one of the 5 in the country suing the government over NCLB, so there is a lot of coverage in our local paper about this topic.

Do they have a alternative program for certification (here it's called ARC) in PA? My DH had to get a professional certificate (30 credits) to teach physics and it took him about a year.
What was tough was getting through to the state that he was qualified. The clerks kept telling him he didn't have any physics course. HE WAS AN ENGINEER before he became a teacher. I had to send up the course book from his college to prove that statics, dynamics, etc. were all physics related. Aye!

 

[goofy4tink]

Oh man....huge peeve of mine. As somebody else had already said...there are dumb kids and bright kids. I have some of each. My dd, 29, is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. But she is a terrific daycare/preschool teacher. None better. My son, 32, graduated second in his finance class at Nichols College. My dd, almost 12...well, the jury is still out on her, but she tends to be more bright than her sister. Math is not a strong suit. Now that the MCAS scores have come out things tend to heat up. I, for one, hate the whole NCLB system. There are some children that are just not going to be proficiant....I don't care how long they try. The SPED classes here have taken on a life of their own. It has now gotten in my town, and it's been an issue for decades but is worse now, that if your child isn't in SPED or Advanced placement classes, they are forgotten children. No one seems to care about those middle of the road students anymore. Our town is also one of those above the average central mass towns. I am truly proud of our schools. But when you try to be all things for all groups, then everything gets watered down. I also am seeing less focus on those 'other' classes...history, social studies, art, music. Sorry, but these are very valuable components of a well-rounded student. There is so much more to a school than it's MCAS standings. I sure do wish they would forget about this whole NCLB system. Let's get back to teaching our kids and having them learn to think on their own, rather than recite lessons back for a test. Independent thinking is starting to go by the wayside!!!

 

[caitycaity]

i think it's a very flawed program.

 

[chrissyk]

Do they have a alternative program for certification (here it's called ARC) in PA? My DH had to get a professional certificate (30 credits) to teach physics and it took him about a year.
What was tough was getting through to the state that he was qualified. The clerks kept telling him he didn't have any physics course. HE WAS AN ENGINEER before he became a teacher. I had to send up the course book from his college to prove that statics, dynamics, etc. were all physics related. Aye!

Hey, I had the same fun here in FL! I'm an engineer also, and I had to prove that I was qualified to teach high-school math Guess what? It turns out that I am Since I am considered subject-matter qualified under NCLB, I have to take 3 tests and 3 courses to get my permanent certification. This has to be completed in the 3 years after I accept the job. I have 3 years to find a job under my certificate of eligibility. NCLB doesn't seem to have as great of an impact on subject-matter qualified professionals looking to teach things like math, physics, etc.

 

[chrissyk]

The SPED classes here have taken on a life of their own. It has now gotten in my town, and it's been an issue for decades but is worse now, that if your child isn't in SPED or Advanced placement classes, they are forgotten children. No one seems to care about those middle of the road students anymore. Our town is also one of those above the average central mass towns.

I wonder if I lived in the same town where you currently live. We moved out of state, but before that we were already looking to leave the town and move to another town because of the SPED issues in the public schools. If your child wasn't SPED, then they were left behind. The only other option in town was a very overcrowded Catholic school (where everyone sent their non-SPED kids). The only kids in my neighborhood who went to public school were kids who qualified for SPED. The SPED program was quite excellent, apparently. I have not one clue how this ended up happening to what was otherwise an excellent school system when we moved in less than a decade ago

 

[puffkin]

Do they have a alternative program for certification (here it's called ARC) in PA? My DH had to get a professional certificate (30 credits) to teach physics and it took him about a year.
What was tough was getting through to the state that he was qualified. The clerks kept telling him he didn't have any physics course. HE WAS AN ENGINEER before he became a teacher. I had to send up the course book from his college to prove that statics, dynamics, etc. were all physics related. Aye!

Problem is, to teach business in PA you have to get certified in something else. Once you have that certification, you can take the test to get certified to teach business. So, I would have to get certified in English, Math or Science or something like that first. Problem is, I only had a few classes in each subject for my accounting degree. So, I would basically need to take the full course load for that subject plus all the education classes. Absurd! I have no idea why you can't just take the education classes and then take the certification test for business. No one was able to explain that one to me.