My Journey to 50 miles (2nd attempt)... (comments welcome)

[DopeyBadger]

Well, I'm happy to say she ran the full 1.5 miles at about my EA pace. She said she felt like she could have gone farther and that there was no IT band pain. I'm really proud of her! Could this be the beginning of a full time runner???? Maybe. She says she still likes the run/walking and I can understand that. Not nearly as much fatigue doing that. But maybe, just maybe she'll try to run a 5k. Then she'll be hooked! (insert maniacal laugh here) Either way, I'm good. Proud of her for testing herself. Especially after a long day of packing.

So your EA pace (12:10 ish) is her half marathon pace. So that's like her doing 18 min of HM tempo work. Her easy continuous pace would be around 14-15 min/mile pace. So she may find that slower continuous pace even easier.

 

[disneygpa]

So your EA pace (12:10 ish) is her half marathon pace. So that's like her doing 18 min of HM tempo work. Her easy continuous pace would be around 14-15 min/mile pace. So she may find that slower continuous pace even easier.

Good point! For some reason that 12:10 ish pace is very comfortable for her. Even before the training plan, she just kind of naturally falls into that pace. I told her at some point she might have to do a mile test. She might actually be faster than she thinks.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Good point! For some reason that 12:10 ish pace is very comfortable for her. Even before the training plan, she just kind of naturally falls into that pace. I told her at some point she might have to do a mile test. She might actually be faster than she thinks.

Research shows that when overall volume is low, individual runs are short, and runners are allowed to self-select pace, they tend to be around lactate threshold to HM tempo. So the pace she gravitated towards is not unexpected given the current circumstances. It would not be surprising if she has made fitness gains despite the injury. But a 2-3 min/mile jump in easy pace is probably a bridge too far in the timeframe.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

But maybe, just maybe she'll try to run a 5k. Then she'll be hooked! (insert maniacal laugh here)

I remember running a Disneyland 10K and shortly after mile 5, a young teenage boy announced how much he hated running. We all laughed in agreement and then wondered how his feelings might change after receiving that sweet BB-8 10K medal after a few more minutes.

In a subsequent year at the end of a 5K in Disney World, I heard overheard a runner say "you know what? I think I'm finally ready to try a 10K now."

I love that you encourage Donna and let her determine what she wants to do. I registered for my first half because I thought I wanted a Disneyland Castle medal and my little sister really wanted to run a half. My internal motivations were partially there, but not quite ready yet. It ended up working out okay, but I also made a lot of mistakes in that process. My first 10K was part of a runDisney Challenge after I had run 3 halfs. My first 5K came after running 8 half marathons with 4 of them being tied to runDisney challenge weekends.

I had run 9 half marathons with 4 of them being part of runDisney challenge weekends before I truly wanted to experience the challenge of the marathon. In the end, I had a great marathon experience, but I strongly believe that part of that came about because I chose the marathon entirely because I recognized that I truly wanted to attempt the marathon. My little sister always reminding me to register for my first half finally got me over that hump, but I spent too much time not realizing my reasons for wanting to do it.

 

[Kazrak]

But maybe, just maybe she'll try to run a 5k. Then she'll be hooked! (insert maniacal laugh here)

...unless you try that, and it ends up like the Star Wars 5k in 2019. (The one that was delayed for like 90 minutes due to thunderstorms, and was run shortened with no photo ops.)

I might be able to get my wife to try a Disney 5k again. Maybe someday.

 

[disneygpa]

Whew!! That was quite the weekend.

While I worked, Donna continued with the move to the new apartment from the house. Saturday, she continued packing. When I got home we ran her 10k.
Given her IT band issues earlier, we decided it was best to take it easy during the challenge. We pretty much ran this as an easy run with the goal of completing it pain free.



Good news!! Success!! 10k completed pain free!!! She did great, it was decent weather outside and really no issues!

Sunday was supposed to be the half. But, Sunday was also the big move!! By the time I got home and we started unpacking, it was clear the half wasn't going to happen on Sunday. I decided to take Monday off work, get up early ish and run the half then continue cleaning and getting the last of the stuff from the house.

Monday morning.... rain... lots and lots of rain. Low 40's, all in all not a bad day for a run.
We got up, had coffee and a piece of peanut butter toast. Stretched. Dreaded going out in the rain. And headed out. Again, the goal for this "race" was survival.
We ran at a very easy pace. I let Donna set the running pace. She was VERY nervous and said she wanted to conserve energy just in case. I totally understood and we ended up running the first mile @ 14:06. This included waiting at a crosswalk for the light to change, so it was probably a little faster than that.
After that we settled into a nice comfortable rhythm that ended up being an avg pace of 13:48. She beat the balloon ladies!! We carried all our fuel and water and took extra walk breaks when eating and drinking. We did find the Stanwood version of "cone alley"!!!


The last couple of miles she started saying her hips were feeling fatigued. I reminded her to not hunch over and straightening up helped relieve the fatigue.

At the end, she cried. It was super emotional for her and I was so dang proud of her!!! She kept saying she didn't know why she was crying..... then I reminded her of all the hard work, trials with the IT band, travel, selling our house, moving etc.... It was a lot coming out all at once.



Today, she says her legs, ankles and hips are tired. But also says she feels good!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Way to go Donna!

Tired is a good feeling. Much better than anything being aggravated by the injury suffered earlier.

 

[disneygpa]

Way to go Donna!

Tired is a good feeling. Much better than anything being aggravated by the injury suffered earlier.

Sooooooo..... after the run we were talking about what's next. She's leaning toward attempting Dopey run/walking. But, she also mentioned her first next goal would be to run a full 5k.
Can a plan be written to take a run/walker to a runner? What kind of time frame would we need to achieve this? I'm sure anything is possible.

BTW- Donna wants to finish a conversation with you, that you two started in Epcot. She wants to know all about your research with vitamin D.....

 

[DopeyBadger]

Can a plan be written to take a run/walker to a runner? What kind of time frame would we need to achieve this? I'm sure anything is possible.

Anything is certainly possible. I've done plans in the past helping those transition from run/walk to continuous. For some, it's nearly instant. For others, it takes 12-18 weeks. For other others, we've found that in the long term they're better off with run/walking. So we can give it a try and see how it goes.

Given she did 1.5 miles of HM Tempo just a few days ago, I'm pretty sure the conversion will be nearly instant for Donna once her injury is fully healed.

BTW- Donna wants to finish a conversation with you, that you two started in Epcot. She wants to know all about your research with vitamin D.....

I really do wish I had more time to spend at DATW last Jan 2020. The star wars ride really cramped our time there.

It's tough to say much about current research without potentially violating any of our rules. I'm working on a few things related to immunological response to vitamin D altered status either genetically or dietarily. We're in the process of writing the paper right now. So when I can say more, I'll be sure to point you in the right direction. I also attached two already published papers. The one about Multiple Sclerosis, I continued the research after that paper lets off. We found some really interesting things, but thus far it has gone unpublished. That's not uncommon with our stuff as we like to hold it close to the vest. The one about OVX rats is something I had my hands all over despite not being listed as an author. There are some other things I've got going on, but I can't even really hint at their topics.

Suffice to say vitamin D is both as important as you think, and not the major player it's advertised to be. Just depends on which topic you're talking about.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

Given her IT band issues earlier, we decided it was best to take it easy during the challenge. We pretty much ran this as an easy run with the goal of completing it pain free.

Congratulations to Donna! Glad she had a good experience especially with all the craziness.

I wound up running the 2020 WDW 10K with a lady I was talking to early in the race who was literally leaving after the 10K to meet her husband and close on a new home as they already lived in Florida. And she was running Dopey and her first marathon. I looked up her bib number from my photos and learned that she finished so that was cool.

I'm a huge proponent of taking things easy in order to be pain free. I find that if I'm trying to push myself beyond what I should, I usually wind up missing a lot more runs because of pain and soreness. Slower and more regular is a lot better for fitness than periodically faster followed by lots of forced rest.

 

[Blue Caterpillar]

Moving is the worst! I always wonder where all this stuff came from, and why I have it. I can't imagine doing races at the same time, kudos!

 

[disneygpa]

Wednesday run. 8 miles M Tempo.

Getting used to the new (well old) running routes. Basically it's the same area we lived in last year before the kids moved to FL and we moved back into our house. Pretty much anything over 5 miles means running the route twice. No biggie. I'll just run it twice or cross the freeway and run through the old neighborhood.

Weather was amazing for this time of year. 45 ish and mostly sunny when I started! Not going to be like that for tonight. Gotta really appreciated days like that when you can.

Run was good, felt really comfortable on the M Tempo's. While I was running them I really thought to myself whether or not I could keep that pace up for a full marathon and I came to the conclusion that I really owe it to myself to find out someday. I've never really run a half or full at race pace. It's always been about surviving the distance. Maybe after the 50k I'll work on actually running a half or full at "speed".



I gotta say that Donna is amazing. She's getting the apartment organized already and it's starting to feel like home. She treated herself to a mani/pedi yesterday and still managed to get the living room and dining room organized. The second bedroom is going to be the challenge. We have soooooo much stuff that some of it might have to go to storage if we want to actually use that room for guests or really anything else. It's truly amazing how much crap you accumulate over 33+ years together.

 

[disneygpa]

Thursday was 5 EA miles. Cold and breezy today! Found a route that was exactly 5 miles. Very hilly, but felt like I kept the effort at EA.



So, I'd been debating signing up for the 50k. I'd be running the distance regardless, so the real issue was whether I wanted to pay for the t-shirt and swag.
Today, I decided to do go ahead and sign up for it. It has a cool Patagonia shirt and a couple other things. Obviously this will end up being an unsupported run. There are several places along the trail that Donna can meet me, check on me, and I can get fuel and water. The only place I really can't get support is about 7 miles up on the mountain. (unless I can get someone to hike up to the top of the mountain) I'll be soloing this run as my niece found out that trail running is no joke! I plan on running it on the day it was supposed to be live, so I suspect I won't be the only one on the trail that day.



There's no turning back now!!

 

[disneygpa]

Learned something new today and wanted to note it here.

The 50k has a GPX file for the map. Well, I couldn't open the GPX file on my company computer so I thought I'd give it a shot with my phone. Eureka! I was able to open the file with Garmin connect. I saved the file and then I could open it on my computer in PacePro and play with the pacing strategy.

I've been thinking about getting a Fenix 6 pro so that I can have maps on my watch. So now I have to see how the PacePro thing works and how the maps download.

Anyone have any experience with either?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Learned something new today and wanted to note it here.

The 50k has a GPX file for the map. Well, I couldn't open the GPX file on my company computer so I thought I'd give it a shot with my phone. Eureka! I was able to open the file with Garmin connect. I saved the file and then I could open it on my computer in PacePro and play with the pacing strategy.

I've been thinking about getting a Fenix 6 pro so that I can have maps on my watch. So now I have to see how the PacePro thing works and how the maps download.

Anyone have any experience with either?

Congrats on signing up!

I have not used PacePro on the watch legitimately, but have played around with in online as well. I find it to be similar to the GAP data I collect from other runners Strava data. So similar to what we did for your trail practice runs and breaking everything down. The following was your GAP adjustments for the entire 50k. Anytime you see "neg" that's how much slower you should go from the same effort. So mile 12 is "neg 5:30" which means if you attempted 12 min/mile effort, then that would be 17:30 pace purely based on grade and not technicalness of the trail itself.

 

[disneygpa]

Congrats on signing up!

I have not used PacePro on the watch legitimately, but have played around with in online as well. I find it to be similar to the GAP data I collect from other runners Strava data. So similar to what we did for your trail practice runs and breaking everything down. The following was your GAP adjustments for the entire 50k. Anytime you see "neg" that's how much slower you should go from the same effort. So mile 12 is "neg 5:30" which means if you attempted 12 min/mile effort, then that would be 17:30 pace purely based on grade and not technicalness of the trail itself.

View attachment 559135

I know this is probably really hard to read. But this is what I get in PacePro if I enter goal pace of 12 min/mile and set the uphill effort to it's easiest. I think I like your paces better! Idk if I would use PacePro. The uphill effort seems a little aggressive for me! I'm really looking at the Fenix for the maps. It would be nice to not make any wrong turns on the trails....

 

[disneygpa]

Whew. What a weekend!

Saturday. Was supposed to be 5 miles @EA. But some exciting news stopped the run at 3.1 miles! A little ways up the thread, after Donna's half, she decided she wanted to run run a 5k. Well. We took off Saturday morning at my EA pace and originally had planned for her to run maybe 1.5 - 2 miles with me. We ran up to the middle school and made a loop around the track. At that point I asked if she wanted to make another loop and she said yes. After that loop, I explained that if we head home now, we would be at 2.2 miles or so, but if we made another lap around the entire school we'd really be close to a 5k. Well, she opted to keep going. I'm super happy to say that she managed to do her first run run 5k! Said she felt good at the end and felt like she could have gone further or faster.




Guess now she needs to set a new goal!!

Sunday. Dang. That 50k is NOT gonna be easy!! I ran the course forward since I missed it 2 weeks ago. I wanted to have an idea of what the race day would be like.

Right off the bat, my right hamstring had a knot in it. I really thought it would work itself out as I went. Turns out I was wrong. It was a pain in the rear the whole run. Had to stretch it multiple times.

I hadn't run between miles 7-12.5 before so that was unchartered territory. Mile 7-9 is called Ridge Trail, and it definitely earns its name. There are portions of this trail that are only 6 to 10 ft wide with a shear drop on the right and a steep steep slope on the left. I would not recommend this trail for anyone afraid of heights or who might suffer from vertigo. I would say that the views are amazing and I wish I'd have stopped to pull out my phone and snap some pics. Portions of the trail had lots of blow down on it and it obscures the trail in certain places. Also, had to do some rock climbing, literally had to use my hands to climb a portion of the trail and then a little further down, had to climb down another rock/root face to get back on the trial. Maybe someone with more experience would run up and down these, but I didn't want to risk injury or a slip.

After mile 9 the trail double backs on the Lost Lake Trail. This was super duper sloppy. I finally gave up trying to avoid the mud and enjoyed it like a little pig. Had to stop and check my maps at a couple intersections because I had never run or even hiked this portion of the trails.

At mile 14 I started up "chinscraper", 1 mile of continuously going uphill, something near 750ft of elevation gain. About halfway up, I ran into a wild herd of mountain bikers coming down and had to stand off trail while they galloped past. At this point I needed a break and it was a welcome brief rest. Also at about this point I was seriously considering my life choices. The hamstring was pretty tight by now and I was letting doubt creep in I was thinking maybe I had bitten off more than I could chew. At mile 15 I reached the peak and started down. Ran into a couple inches of snow in the upper parking lot. At first getting running again seemed to be a challenge. After 3 or 4 min, I started to feel better and tried to pick up the pace as much as I could in the slush. By mile 16 I was actually feeling pretty good. My life choices didn't seem so bad, but the right hamstring was still tight. I just couldn't seem to workout whatever was ailing it.

At the end, I actually felt better than I had at the end of the 14 mile run earlier. Did I mention I wore the calf sleeves for the first time. Gotta say, those will probably be added for all trail runs.

Went home and stretched, took a hot epson salt bath and Donna used the massager on my legs. That was pretty much it except for maybe a nap.



Today I feel ok. Hamstring is still tight, knees and ankles are a little achy, and I have a weird pain on the back of my left heel. Feels bruised and tender. But it's on the back of the heel not the bottom where I might have stepped on a rock or something. No blister, not sure why it's sore.

I really thought that I had been way slow on this run, but when I look at my pacing chart it looks like I did "ok". If you factor in the time I had to look at my map and the rest going up chinscraper I was only a little slow. I'm pretty happy with the results! A little slow, but not horribly. I won't need to stop and consult maps during the race. I've already run the unknown portion of the trail.

I'm definitely concerned about this "race". I know I'll probably feel better and have fresher legs after taper but after yesterdays run, the thought of adding a half marathon to what I did seems a bit daunting.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm super happy to say that she managed to do her first run run 5k! Said she felt good at the end and felt like she could have gone further or faster.

Had a feeling that would be the case! Way to go Donna! We estimated a 34:39 5k back in October 2020, so I'd agree that she probably could have gone either further or faster.

I'm definitely concerned about this "race". I know I'll probably feel better and have fresher legs after taper but after yesterdays run, the thought of adding a half marathon to what I did seems a bit daunting.

Context matters, right? You did 10:51 hours of running this week. That's not insignificant, that's a ton. 4:47 in one run, a HM in 3hr earlier, and the other 4 hours throughout the week. You're bound to be fatigued from that. For comparison, the week of the 50k, you only have under 3 hrs scheduled. So 7 hours vs 3 hours will hopefully give you a big leg up.

Second, it's important to remember not only that you did an 18 mile training run and you have 13 miles remaining, but also where that 18 mile training run was constituted.



You did mile 7 to mile 25 of the course in the training run. The first 7 miles and the remaining 5 miles are literally pieces of cake compared to the onslaught of what you experienced in this training run.

So rest up. You're physically and mentally prepared for this. Now it's just a matter of being smart on race day and taking it easy enough to finish with a smile. We should consider pulling back on the 3/6 and 3/7 run to a 60 min + 90 min instead of what was written previously. The 7 to 25 mile forward is harder than the 25 to 7 mile backward route. So the 7-25 was intended to be 6 weeks out to allow more rest.

 

[disneygpa]

Had a feeling that would be the case! Way to go Donna! We estimated a 34:39 5k back in October 2020, so I'd agree that she probably could have gone either further or faster.



Context matters, right? You did 10:51 hours of running this week. That's not insignificant, that's a ton. 4:47 in one run, a HM in 3hr earlier, and the other 4 hours throughout the week. You're bound to be fatigued from that. For comparison, the week of the 50k, you only have under 3 hrs scheduled. So 7 hours vs 3 hours will hopefully give you a big leg up.

Second, it's important to remember not only that you did an 18 mile training run and you have 13 miles remaining, but also where that 18 mile training run was constituted.

View attachment 559861

You did mile 7 to mile 25 of the course in the training run. The first 7 miles and the remaining 5 miles are literally pieces of cake compared to the onslaught of what you experienced in this training run.

So rest up. You're physically and mentally prepared for this. Now it's just a matter of being smart on race day and taking it easy enough to finish with a smile. We should consider pulling back on the 3/6 and 3/7 run to a 60 min + 90 min instead of what was written previously. The 7 to 25 mile forward is harder than the 25 to 7 mile backward route. So the 7-25 was intended to be 6 weeks out to allow more rest.

Thanks Billy! I'll make those changes to 3/6 & 3/7. I know deep down that I'm going to be as prepared as possible for the run. I figured I was feeling the fatigue from the past few weeks.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

Hooray for Donna's first 5K!

Also at about this point I was seriously considering my life choices.

This is me usually when I first take up more focused training with a real goal in mind. I usually attempt to deal with it using lines from Star Trek or Star Wars and then putting a running and/or humorous morbid twist on them.

My life choices didn't seem so bad,

This is also me, but usually only after finishing the race and feeling really good about what I just did.