Well, we can sure tell the school season has started again.....Update, page 8 # 143

[Pink Partridge]

I turned on the news and I pulled into CFIT and demanded my child. Mr. Holman refused and stated they were now on level 3 lockdown. I wasn't too happy but understood.

That's a tough one. It's difficult to fathom not have access to your child during a crisis.

 

[HopperFan]

Was seeing Beetlejuice (LOVED IT) with DS who is HS Teacher & Coach. And yes he does know coaches at that school. The minute movie was over he leaned over to tell me the Dad has been charged, as he should now that we know he bought the AR for his son AFTER the authorities had been there to investigate. THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE ~ you own the gun and don't secure it or you provide the gun .. you get charged. It is a start, if it gets these guns secured, then it is a start. If you can afford the weapons, you can afford the safe.

4 Counts Involuntary Manslaughter
2 Counts Second Degree Murder (why not 4?)
8 Counts Cruelty to Children

The family history coming out is appalling that these kids were not removed before this.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Great news update....

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/05/us/winder-georgia-shooting-apalachee-high-school/index.html


The father of the Apalachee High School shooting suspect has been arrested in connection with the shooting that left four people dead, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Colin Gray, 54, has been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children,

Colin Gray told investigators this week he had purchased the gun used in the killings as a holiday present for his son in December 2023, according to two law enforcement sources with direct knowledge of the investigation.

One source told CNN the AR-15-style rifle was purchased at a local gun store as a Christmas present. The timeline the teen’s father provided to authorities would put the gun purchase months after authorities first contacted Gray and his family to investigate school shooting threats made

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yet mass school shootings never happened and still rarely, if ever happen in the inner city. It seems it is mostly a suburban white male issue.

I do agree with this and stats do as well but the larger topic of gun violence is not supported in my area. In my metro almost every single gun violence is occurring in the more urban areas and sometimes it's 3 or 4 or more being killed, drive bys are common. The suburbs IF a shooting anywhere occurs (which it's not common at all) it gets so much news coverage because it's unusual. Just about every day I open up the local news online and it's a shooting that has occurred, it's not happening in the suburbs though. The homicide tracker is only up to date from 8/18 but 142 were logged at that point with almost all of that occurring in the urban area (mainly located on the other side of the state line) and the vast majority are Black. The gun laws are essentially the same between the two states as well.

I can't quite say gun culture here to discern the differences because there's clearly much more at play but you're right stat-wise about what is occurring at the schools.

 

[wallawallakids]

Yesterday was a very sad day in my town. I live in Winder, GA and my kids go to Barrow County Schools. A little background first. I am very close with the Sheriff department and really good friends with Sheriff Judd Smith. We are bonded to drive and work on their patrol cars and have built a very strong relationship over the last 20 years. My 13 year old goes to the CFIT center which is the Arts and Innovative Magnet Program also known as AIM. My 10 year old goes to County Line Elementary School. At 10:30 ish I received a text about the shooting. Minutes later my phone started blowing up with messages from both my girls schools. I turned on the news and it was a breaking story. I was told that it was contained to Apalachee High School with is about 8 miles from my house and about 4 miles from my shop. I was headed to my house to watch and wait when countless patrol cars from our county, city, state patrol and all surrounding counties started heading to Winder-Barrow High which is 1.5 miles from my house, less than a mile from CFIT and 3 miles from County Line. The rumor was there was another shooter at Winder-Barrow. I pulled into CFIT and demanded my child. Mr. Holman refused and stated they were now on level 3 lockdown. I wasn't too happy but understood. The police kept going by as I sat out front of CFIT just watching and worrying. Finally a local Winder officer puled up and we talked for a bit and she assured my this school was safe so I headed home to wait. I was in constant communication with my 13 year old by text but I couldn't reach my 10 yo. It was a very stressful day as I couldn't do anything but wait. I never thought it would happen in my town but here we are.

Here's a picture of Kendall with Sheriff Jud Smith. She loves when we visit him. He's a good man and loves our county very much.
View attachment 892166 View attachment 892167

I am so sorry. Hugs to you and your kids.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So I really don’t know what the answer to that is. Schools can’t close for every threat- students will absolutely take advantage of it.

They take threats very seriously in my direct area. From locked downs to police presence to paying attention to students who thankfully speak out to what they see on social media or hear other students saying and sometimes that will cause school to close sometimes for more than a day at a time which happened I believe last year when threats were done for multiple schools in my metro.


Part of the equation in curbing taking advantage of that is criminal charges. But you cannot opt to not take action because you're thinking students will take advantage of it, that is incomprehensible for a school to use that sort of logic.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Colin Gray, age 54, has been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/apalachee-school-shooting-georgia-09-05-24/index.html

That's a step that should have been taken so many years ago, the fact that it has taken so long to only really become a thing to look at criminal charges against the parents/family members for having a contributing factor, should have been looked into long ago on past incidents. Along with we need so much more prosecution against shootings that occur at home due to negligent gun ownership, a 3 year old killing their parent or sibling because the gun is casually put on a chair or in a purse with easy access for example.

 

[bdrex28]

Colin Gray, age 54, has been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/apalachee-school-shooting-georgia-09-05-24/index.html

I'd also like the authorities and school investigated to see if they were warned and why and how he could bring in a rifle to the school past any security if any.

If they could have done more then they also should face discipline and potential charges.

You start placing responsibility on parents, on lack of security and ignoring warnings then everyone will start doing their jobs.

 

[Kestryl]

They take threats very seriously in my direct area. From locked downs to police presence to paying attention to students who thankfully speak out to what they see on social media or hear other students saying and sometimes that will cause school to close sometimes for more than a day at a time which happened I believe last year when threats were done for multiple schools in my metro.


Part of the equation in curbing taking advantage of that is criminal charges. But you cannot opt to not take action because you're thinking students will take advantage of it, that is incomprehensible for a school to use that sort of logic.

Sure, but you have to catch the students making those threats. Two weeks solid of constant bomb threats with no actual bomb… well, it’s a bit hard to take those seriously any more, it becomes so routine.

I’m not saying the schools don’t do anything- there are lockdowns of all varieties, extra security presence, etc. They should respond. But resources aren’t infinite, and while extra police presence could be called to School A with a threat, School B could be left vulnerable.

I’m waiting to hear more about this reported warning that there would be a shooting at five schools in the area. Given how often these threats are made, I’m not automatically assuming that the warning was actually associated with the real shooting. It could have been a sick prank of coincidence.

 

[Pink Partridge]

You start placing responsibility on parents, on lack of security and ignoring warnings then everyone will start doing their job.

Mom is a meth head. Dad would beat the kids, according to grandfather. No clean clothes. Neighbor said kids locked out of house and would bang on door.

Some people should not have children. I hope the dad gets a very long sentence.

 

[dvcgirl67]

That's a step that should have been taken so many years ago, the fact that it has taken so long to only really become a thing to look at criminal charges against the parents/family members for having a contributing factor, should have been looked into long ago on past incidents. Along with we need so much more prosecution against shootings that occur at home due to negligent gun ownership, a 3 year old killing their parent or sibling because the gun is casually put on a chair or in a purse with easy access for example.

I really do hope that this is the new direction that we head in as a nation. There has to be some culpability by adults in the case of these underage school/mass shooters.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sure, but you have to catch the students making those threats. Two weeks solid of constant bomb threats with no actual bomb… well, it’s a bit hard to take those seriously any more, it becomes so routine.

I’m not saying the schools don’t do anything- there are lockdowns of all varieties, extra security presence, etc. They should respond. But resources aren’t infinite, and while extra police presence could be called to School A with a threat, School B could be left vulnerable.

I’m waiting to hear more about this reported warning that there would be a shooting at five schools in the area. Given how often these threats are made, I’m not automatically assuming that the warning was actually associated with the real shooting. It could have been a sick prank of coincidence.

Right but that wasn't what your comment was, it was that you can't shut schools down for every threat. It stands that if there is no knowledge of one you can't obviously close a school down....

Lack of resources also isn't what your comment was about and we all know that resources aren't finite. It stands that if a district or school lacks resources they will do what they can with what resources they have....and usually the comments will be we need more resources and more money, etc.

However, when a school knows of something (whatever it may be), action has to and must be taken. What that means depends on what the threat is, what the resources are, etc. But the basic point of saying you can't shut schools down for every threat would be taking a non-serious outlook on it. The outlook should be you will shut down a school for every threat if need be and to not do so could lead to potentially tragic outcomes, no individual wants to be apart of that, at least not the ones who take the safety of people seriously. You do not want an incident at a school to occur only for the answer to be "well it became routine for a threat so we didn't take it seriously". That signals something very messed up if you get that mentality. And by you I'm meaning the schools.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I really do hope that this is the new direction that we head in as a nation. There has to be some culpability by adults in the case of these underage school/mass shooters.

I'll add to that that underage doesn't just mean minors. Specific to schools you can be 18 and be in school, not specific to school speaking more broadly about incidents all over. There's also college.

If there are specific age laws in one's state regarding what guns and what tasks a person must do if they are under the age of X and a parent or guardian or another individual knowingly goes around that (and the state law doesn't allow for that) that should also be something to be looked at. It's the same when people buy so and so a gun knowing they were not allowed to have it. The Chiefs parade shooting had that where a gun was purchased by a 21 yr old for a 19 yr old because the 19 yr old was too young to legally purchase that particular firearm. That's just one example but it's a recent one. One of the charges against the 21 yr old includes that criminal act.

 

[Kestryl]

Right but that wasn't what your comment was, it was that you can't shut schools down for every threat. It stands that if there is no knowledge of one you can't obviously close a school down....

Lack of resources also isn't what your comment was about and we all know that resources aren't finite. It stands that if a district or school lacks resources they will do what they can with what resources they have....and usually the comments will be we need more resources and more money, etc.

However, when a school knows of something (whatever it may be), action has to and must be taken. What that means depends on what the threat is, what the resources are, etc. But the basic point of saying you can't shut schools down for every threat would be taking a non-serious outlook on it. The outlook should be you will shut down a school for every threat if need be and to not do so could lead to potentially tragic outcomes, no individual wants to be apart of that, at least not the ones who take the safety of people seriously. You do not want an incident at a school to occur only for the answer to be "well it became routine for a threat so we didn't take it seriously". That signals something very messed up if you get that mentality. And by you I'm meaning the schools.

And I still stand by that. Because again, these threats are constant. There are schools that would never open. The difference is deciding what is a credible threat (which could elicit a shutdown, assuming the kids aren't already there or waiting outside the school to get in) and what is a prank threat.

So I should have been clearer from the get-go. I won't automatically assume that the threat that was made against multiple schools in the area was actually tied to the shooting, because it could have been some other stupid kid making a stupid call. Or it could have come after the kids were in school. (Because if that's the case, should the schools send the kids home? What if the shooter is planning to pick kids off as they exit the building? What if they lied about the schools they planned to target?) Or it could have been made minutes before he started shooting and there was little to no time to figure out who made the call or go into lockdown. There is just no info there to figure out if the school had an appropriate response.

This or slight variations have been the only news on the threat made that morning:

"The high school at the center of today’s mass shooting in Georgia received an earlier phone threat, multiple law enforcement officials tell CNN.

"Law enforcement officials in Georgia say Apalachee High School received a phone call this morning warning that there would be shootings at five schools and that Apalachee would be the first.

"It is not known who placed the call. Officials tell CNN they are investigating the call and where it originated."

The two weeks of bomb threats was something I went through in high school. Our SRO always took it very seriously. The staff took it seriously. But the teenagers were so over it after a few days of being forced to go sit in buses or the football field, and people absolutely joked about it, because again- stupid teenagers. If someone had actually meant harm to the school in that time period, and only the teenagers saw the threat... depending on the kid, I'm not entirely sure it would have been reported, they may have just laughed it off. And that is bad. But I'm not sure what to do about it, other than to make sure those making these joke threats are caught and face real consequences.

 

[bdrex28]

what is the background of a School Resource Officer to determine what is a credible threat or not? I ask because I'm genuinely curious. I'm glad there was a SRO in this case because it sounds like they helped to stop the shooting by confronting the shooter.

 

[sam_gordon]

I do think a good question would be how the kid got an AR type rifle INTO the school. I mean, I get many schools don't have metal detectors, and wouldn't fault one for not having one, but does an rifle of that type fit into a backpack? Surely he wasn't wearing a long coat to conceal it, right? Wouldn't a long coat have been a red flag in this weather?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And I still stand by that. Because again, these threats are constant. There are schools that would never open. The difference is deciding what is a credible threat (which could elicit a shutdown, assuming the kids aren't already there or waiting outside the school to get in) and what is a prank threat.

So I should have been clearer from the get-go. I won't automatically assume that the threat that was made against multiple schools in the area was actually tied to the shooting, because it could have been some other stupid kid making a stupid call. Or it could have come after the kids were in school. (Because if that's the case, should the schools send the kids home? What if the shooter is planning to pick kids off as they exit the building? What if they lied about the schools they planned to target?) Or it could have been made minutes before he started shooting and there was little to no time to figure out who made the call or go into lockdown. There is just no info there to figure out if the school had an appropriate response.

This or slight variations have been the only news on the threat made that morning:

"The high school at the center of today’s mass shooting in Georgia received an earlier phone threat, multiple law enforcement officials tell CNN.

"Law enforcement officials in Georgia say Apalachee High School received a phone call this morning warning that there would be shootings at five schools and that Apalachee would be the first.

"It is not known who placed the call. Officials tell CNN they are investigating the call and where it originated."

The two weeks of bomb threats was something I went through in high school. Our SRO always took it very seriously. The staff took it seriously. But the teenagers were so over it after a few days of being forced to go sit in buses or the football field, and people absolutely joked about it, because again- stupid teenagers. If someone had actually meant harm to the school in that time period, and only the teenagers saw the threat... depending on the kid, I'm not entirely sure it would have been reported, they may have just laughed it off. And that is bad. But I'm not sure what to do about it, other than to make sure those making these joke threats are caught and face real consequences.

Threats don't equal schools closing as I said it depends on what the threat is. Threat doesn't necessarily mean bomb threat or a mass school shooting either, threat can also mean a bag or other object that may have something in it, a student's backpack that they have a gun in it but don't intend to use it for a school shooting, it can be vague as well. My point was if a school has to be closed because of a particular threat then that's what should occur (not to be confused with the sole action one can only possibly take), whether a student would take advantage of that or whether it would become too routine for people and so they don't take the threat seriously does not mean a school shouldn't then take action, the consequences of not doing so could be tragic. No one wants that. The public takes things more seriously than in the past, more students are willing to speak out and say something, more abilities to say you saw something on social media which makes it easier if someone is nervous about speaking out.

Kids joke about it until something actually happens. We had a lockdown for several hours when I was in high school due to a bullet shell found by the bathroom, sure we all grumbled about it, but no student is ever going to joke about it if an incident actually occurs. Around here with threats sometimes they closed for a day, sometimes several days, sometimes it was more police presence, sometimes it was a lockdown if a bag was found, an SRO officer is called (either to the school or if already at the school to the admin office), or police themselves are called, etc.

I'm wondering if you're not separating out when talking about whether a threat should be taken seriously or not the difference between getting a threat and the appropriate persons are notified and what happens next depends on the situation vs shrug it off. What my comments have been aimed at is that the threats are dealt with in various ways rather than just shrugging them off and mostly talking about a school making that decision to just shrug it off.

This is an example of taking a threat seriously, one that was vague one that wasn't even known to be credible or not. https://fox4kc.com/video/kcpd-investigating-threats-at-east-high-school/9691175/ In the video one of the schools mentioned says what they did https://www.kctv5.com/video/2024/05/13/smsd-responds-threats-popular-social-media-outlet/ this is another example https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/ray...s-security-thursday-after-social-media-threat and this was one that occurred in the summer of 2022 https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article262529762.html where schools across the metro closed for activities and programs due to a threat.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

There was just a shooting 20 minutes ago at a school that’s only like 15 minutes from me. Insane

 

[sam_gordon]

There was just a shooting 20 minutes ago at a school that’s only like 15 minutes from me. Insane

Source? ETA: not doubting you, just looking for more info.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

I got a text from my DD who knows someone who goes there, and it’s all over social media. ( I meant this to reply to sam_gordon )