Well DD makes it legal and other rants...

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

DD comes over yesterday and informs her dadd and I that her and SIL are LEGALLY separating. They sign the papers on Monday.

They have been separated since Janaury when DD moved out. They have each had 1 marriage counseling session as they just began with this 2-3 weeks ago. According to DD during her first seesion, the counselor adviced her to get a lawyer and make the separation legal (something we had told her to do back in January). Although I always thought marriage counselo try and steer you away from divorce?

So anyway she has hire a lawyer and will sign on the dotted line Monday. I asked her who SIL has hired. She said no one that he agrees to sign the papers and that's that. Also she said her attorney has told her that as long as she and SIL agree on the terms of the separation and later divorce if they continue that the judge will not rule differently? This goes for custody rights, child scheduling, etc. She says if they divorce she will not ask for the house, car, etc. as she wants him to retain all of the debt since 99 % of it is his. The hours will stay the same until the child goes to school then child will be with her M-F. SIL will get the child every weekend.

DH and I don't agree with everything that is happening but it is what it is. Its their decision not ours. We feel sorry for our DGS as he will not see his mom as much as we feel he should but what can we do. Its not our choice. Alkwe can do is sit and watch this unfold and be there for our DGS.

Well to make a bad day worse. Later the same day, DD calls and ask her dad and I to co-sign a loan for a brand new Mustang. One that she will be paying 7 years on. Can you believe it? I nearly fell off my chair. Now mind you, she already has a perfectly good car (2007 4 dr Outlander) that we have loaned her the use of. She makes no payments on it nor pays for insurance or upkeep. We do! This was to help her out until such time she can afford her own. Now she says she can afford the payments on the mustang but has't got good credit citing SIL ruined hers. So she needs a co-signer to get it. And she wants to keep BOTH cars, one for fun and the other for when she has her son with her. I found myself asking has she gone completely mad but thne realize no, this is just how she is. Whenever she is having a rough time she gifts herself something. She somehow feels she is entitled. In recent months she has been saying she needs a vacation, 2 weeks to somewhere wonderful without her son because she deserves it. Now she has already been to WDW for 10 days all expenses paid by us in January and to Boston and NY for 10 days with friends last July. She will also be going to Miami in September to vist family and friends. To DH and I, having another vacation is crazy especially when she spends so little time with her son as it is. OMG she drives me insane at times. Can daughters do that? I know mine can.

I will be the first to say DD is immature, spoiled and impulsive. She does not think things through. I know she is under a lot of stress with a child, failing marriage, college, demanding job, separation, etc but I feel buying a new car and one she doesn't need that is not child friendly is a huge mistake. So I said NO!!! Absolutely NOT! DH was going to do it for her as long as he didn't have to pay anything and IMO did not see clearly that this would be just another mistake in long list of mistakes when it comes to our DD. Sorry but true! IMO she was not thinkiing like a parent but only about herself. Well needless to say my NO did not go over well and she hung up but not before threatening me with never seeing my grandson again. Something she likes to do a lot whenever I don't side with her or make her upset.

I feel DD needs desperately to grow up, mature, become responcible and learn to make her child a priority in her life. I wonder though if she ever will. She and I haven't had a good relationship since she was 13. She is 22 now. At first I thought it was just teenage angst but no, it got worse as the years passed. I think my biggest mistake with her was to spoil her. She is our only child and DH and I wanted to make her happy. So we tried. Now DD blames me for everything. She even has a thing about my size. See I am fat. Pure and simple. And she hates it! I know I'm not perfect but I really did do everything I could think of to be a good mother. I tried to be a loving, caring, supportive mom who did the sleepovers, bake sales, PTA, class mom, field trip mom Girl Scout leader and so much more. I read to her nitely, snuggle with her, baked cookies with her, made funny face pancakes for her, left notes in her lunch box, etc. Some in my family say I did way too much and I probably did. Both DH and I made her the center of our world. Yet to her it just wasn't enough. She doesnt attack her dad with harsh words, foul language or threats only me. She comes at me with both barrels blazing and I never know what I will say or do that will cause her to strike. After years of this I have found I put up with it less and less. I have gotten angry, depressed and sad becausei I feel in my heart her and I will never have a good relatioinship. there is so much hostility and yes, abuse on her part I don't enven enjoy being around her. That breaks my heart. The child I so loved hates me. On the other hand. DH enables her. He says nothing to her not even when she is in the middle of attacking me. His lack of facing upo t her has only made things worse because she gets away with it. He says I need to not get her upset or try to understand how stressed she is.

I have tried everything to get her to see what she is doing is wrong. I have tried talking with my husband but nothing changes. I have even asked for family counseling only for DH to say no, we can't afford it. So it goes on. I wish the best for my daughter, I really do and I hope things will woirk out for her especially for my grandson's sake. As for her and I , I don;t know where that will end up. I can't change her nor how she feels towards me. For now I will continue to be a good grandma to my beautiflul grandson and that's all I can do.

Is it helpful to get all this stuff out. God I hope so. Thanks for letting rant!

 

[cglaura]

When I divorced, we only used my lawyer. Everything was agreed upon, and only I had to go to court, as I was the one filing. The judge asked me a few questions, basically just re-asserting my claims, to which I answered yes, etc. Took all of 15 minutes on the stand.

As far as the house...I was able to stay in the house, the deed transferred solely to me, while the ex still held the mortgage, all in his name (he had the house/mortgage before we married). I believe it was a quitclaim deed, it transferred for $1. He sent the mortgage $$ to me with the child support & I paid it (that way I knew it was being paid, but it was a leap of faith on his part that I wouldn't screw w/ his credit....we had a very amicable {sp?} divorce).

So I got to stay in the house, while he paid it off. This was in lieu of allimony (well, this was my allimony). Then in addition to that he paid child support.

So she may be able to stay if she likes the house. If she can't get a car, I'm not sure how she is going to get an apartment or house rental with bad credit, though I suppose there are some places that don't check.

I think you were right on saying no to the car loan. Especially if she has such a good car already. I could see if it was last resort, need for work, etc. But a fun car??? That's for after college and after fixing your own credit and saving up! Not for your parents to worry about.

I'm not sure what else to say other than try to stay in good spirits, sometimes kids can get to us, but she still has a lot of growing up to do, so hopefully she'll realize (as we all do), when her kid starts acting up...oh gee, this is what I did to my mom! My mom and I are best buds now, and I was not a very pleasant teen at all

 

[susykt4]

Your daughter sounds amazingly like my best friend from high school. She pulled all of the same crap with her mom, ditched her kid with anyone willing to watch him so she could go out with friends, felt completely entitled to her dad's money, etc.

We're now 36. Her son is 17 and a junior in high school. While I won't even pretend like everything in her life is lollipops and rainbows, she has had a good relationship with her mother at least since her late twenties. Her son is an honor student and as well-adjusted as any miserable teen Friend continues to make some dumb choices and continues to feel entitled to things beyond her financial reach, relying on Daddy for everything from extra cash for food and bills, to co-signing cars and houses. I guess I'm disgusted with her because she is one of the smartest people I know (school-wise, nothing else obviously...) and never bothered to go to college. She's now working part-time as a hospital (um) admitter when she's probably smarter than most of the doctors. At least your kid is going to school!!!

If it makes you feel any better, Friend is from a family with three children. Her parents are still together. Her brother and sister both have advanced degrees and excellent jobs. She wasn't overly spoiled and certainly wasn't neglected. There is no good reason why she did this to herself. It is NOT her parents' fault!!!!!

Sorry, I kind of went off on a rant of my own, but the point I meant to make was that Friend now has a good relationship with her mother. Her mother has a great relationship with her grandson and also her granddaughter from Friend's second marriage. Oh, and Friend's mother isn't fat, but she made terrible fun of her mother's clothes and hair, neither of which was bad.

 

[CSS1996]

Many, many hugs to you. It sounds like you have been a wonderful mother so don't beat yourself up. Don't give in on the car, it seems like you already do more then enough for her. She has a lot of growing up to do and hopefully one day she realizes how special of a mother you are(sooner rather than later). Best of luck to you and your husband.

 

[Vacation Lover]

I think you're right about the car. Not only that, I think it's time to have her start paying you something for the car she's using.

 

[ms_missy66]

*hugs* I know this has to be so tough for you.

I have some advice, but you may choose to toss it out the window because I don't have children this age yet, so I'm not speaking from experience.

I know this would be incredibly difficult, but it almost sounds like your DD needs to be cut off. Not in a sink or swim way, but more like "you have to work your way out of your mistakes, otherwise you'll never learn from them." No loaning money. No financially supporting her. No emotionally supporting bad choices.

I almost envision you creating almost a mantra. "We want the best for you because we love you and the best is for you to learn how be responsible like an adult. We have all the faith in the world you'll be able to achieve that one step at a time." Every time she makes a bad choice, acts selfishly or asks for money you tell her this. You're not turning your back on her. You're supporting her emotionally by reminding her of your love and faith in her. But you're making it clear where you stand on making bad choices and money issues.

When she threatens to keep your grandson from you (which would break my heart too!) say something like, "I think that's just hurting everyone including you, but he's your son and that's your perrogative." I really really don't think she'd follow through with that. And if she did, I doubt it would last long. It feels a lot like she's saying, "I'm taking my ball and going home!" or "I'm holding my breath until I turn blue!"

And this "fat" business...so am I. So what? Somehow all of the help you've given her in the past has made your weight overlookable (I don't really think that's a word, but you get what I'm saying). Next time she brings it up, tell her "thank you for being concerned about my health. I love you too." If you don't give her anything to debate about, the fight is over.

Take care, momma. I need to keep a notebook of all the advice I'm dishing out for when my girls are 22 and doing the same things. LOL

 

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

Thanls for the support this morning. Some of the coments actually helped me to smile a little. Especially the remark that my daughter is acting like a child who wants to take her ball home. Yes, it does appear that she is saying something like that. She dangles her son over my head becasue she knows it would hurt me to no end if she did take him away. DD has always gone for the juggler when it comes to me.

As for the fact I am fat seems to bother her a lot these last several years. At times she looks at me as if I am ther most digusting thing she has ever seen. She feels my size has somehow made me an unfit mother in her eyes. I don't see it that way. There is nothing that I haven't tried to give her or do for her. I know full well I am not perfect but have always felt I did the very best mothering job I could with always the best intentions.

I don't feel that DH and I need to keep cleaning up her mistakes. We do so much already for her. I feel she is 22 and a mother and she needs to learn to stadn on her on two feet and be responcible. DH and I butt heads over this as he feels he should still bail her out each and everytime. I think he may be afraid she will begin to treat him as she does me if he begins to say no. I love my daughter with all of my heart however I don't feel I need to go on being abused verbally and emotionally by her. I guess you could say I am tired of being her doormat. It's not the relationship I wanted to have with my daughter. I know she is going through a lot right now in her personal life but that does not give her the right to treat her mother with disrepect, hostility and hatefullness.

 

[badblackpug]

I have to agree, cut her off. It isn't fair that she treats you this way. People can only take advantage of you if you let them. You are right about the car. (psst: her car is newer than any of ours and we are a 2 income family) Truly if your daughter is as irresponsible as she sounds, then you will end up paying for that car to save YOUR credit. Besides, divorces can get costly, she needs to save her money. I know you love your grandson, and want to spend time with him, but you really need to stop watching him. As I said before, watching him while she is at work or school is fine, but you really need to stop keeping him so that she can travel without him and socialize. ...and that includes leaving him at your house over night because it is more convenient than picking him up. She should pick her son up at the end of each day. You are not a flophouse! (by the way, the daycare charges $1 a minute for every minute you are late) Just put your foot down. You need to make her step up to the plate and raise her own son. I really don't think that she will take your grandson away from you, if for no other reason than she won't find free child care elsewhere. NEVER let her verbally abuse you, about your weight or anything else. Next time she starts simply state "you are disrespectful" and hang up the phone or walk away. It takes two to argue! Let her handle her divorce herself. She may learn from her mistakes or she may not, but either way let her be the adult.

This all sounds like an awful situation, and it sounds like you and your grandson are stuck in the middle. It sounds as if she really doesn't have any interest in being a parent. Stop spoiling her. Let her stand on her own two feet (or fall off them, whichever she chooses) ...and if I were you I would try to forge a decent relationship with your son in law, it sounds as if he may be the one that ends up raising your grandson.

 

[PiperPizzaz]

I haven't read the other replies so forgive me if I am repeating.

1. Sounds like your dd needs to hear a new word (and one you need to learn to say) NO.

2. Just because the divorce papers say he gets the debt does not legally take it away from her. She is still responsible for any incurred during their marriage. If he doesn't pay they will come after her.

3. She must worry about being heavy herself and that is why she is putting you down about it.

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

Sorry for the troubles.

I think you shouldn't completely cut her off, as you said, she's dangling DGS in your face and the last thing he needs is to lose mom AND grandparents.

You could start changing things by not co-signing on that car. She doesn't need it. Tell her to go buy a Coach purse or something... it's no car, but a material investment... maybe that would get the spending impulse out of her... (my mother does the same thing, though, never a car...)

I wouldn't say it's a matter of walking away from her as putting your foot down. And as for the comments of you saying that she looks at you like you are the most disgusting thing... sounds like what she needs is a lesson in respect. I could not imagine EVER treating my parents that way, oh wait... I could... and that would result in me getting my butt turned a lovely shade of lobster (still it would happen even though I'm now 28).

If you guys start to slowly pull back she may finally realize how important you guys are to her and her son.

I'm sorry she has to go through all of this... it's hard to end relationships, but it doesn't mean that she has to destroy all of the others in her life. I hope for the best for you.

 

[Brancaneve]

I am an only child and my parents did everything for me as you did for your daughter. But I have never put my parents through what you are going through now. Don't ever think that the way she is acting is your fault! Please let that go!

Since she seemed to have married at a young age, it sounds like she is trying to relive her teenage years at it should not be at your expense or the expense of her daughter. She may need counseling just for herself. Good luck!

 

[mom2faith]

WOW!!! I feel you are talking directly to me here - the me of the past and the me of the future!!

First of all - my relationship with my mom has been similar. I used to do the same terrible things to her (many years ago). I was always angry with her and I still do not really know why. Perhaps because she had a better relationship with my sister, perhaps because I never felt like I could "talk" to her. The posibilities are endless. After years of treatment for depression and anxiety and panic attacks, I am much better and my mom and I continue to grow closer. I still hold some anger for her and my dad, but it is mild. I really wish that they had gotten me to seek help sooner - KWIM?? It was a BFF that dragged my sorry butt to the DR stating I had a problem and needed to get myself under control. I just wish my parents had sone it when I was 15 or 16 when it started. But, then I also see it from their point of view that you never want to admit your own child has a problem.

So my advice to you is to get her to seek counselling. There may be something holding her back that is making her lash out like this. And, from experience, dealing withit will make her life a whole lot better. I am not saying it is the same as me, I am just saying there maybe something deeper that is bugging her.

(My problems started when a boyfriend tried to commit suicide several times and I blamed myself. After being with him throughout the treatment which included a stay in the mental hospital, he thanked me by breaking into myparents house and robbing them blind. My parents should have got me into counselling right away, but they thought I would get over it. After that I was full of anger for many years. I was 15 at the time and we dated for several years before I learned everything he had done.)

Now, for the me of the future - OUCH!! Mom you need a hug!! You have done everything right!! I do all the same things for DD and it breaks my heart to think that she could "turn" on me in this way!! Please love her and help her. I promise she will get better and she will thank you for it!!

As for right now, you are doing the right thing by saying no. You cannot be maipulated into signing a car loan - after all if she cannot make a payment it is on you! But, she does need some help to work through all of this stress. Support her and be there for her, even if it means a few more lashing outs. You can do it and your relationship with her will be better once you assist her with some help. I promise!!

Good luck!!

Amy

 

[jennifer293]

are you my mother??? lol

Your DD sounds just like my baby sister. She has not been through the whole marriage, mother, divorce thing YET, but she is one who feels like the world owes her everything and it drives me NUTS!!!

If you do not put your foot down with you DD then she will continue to run over you and further put a wedge in your marriage.

 

[Grendalynn]

I haven't read the other replies so forgive me if I am repeating.

1. Sounds like your dd needs to hear a new word (and one you need to learn to say) NO.

ITA!!!

....I wouldn't say it's a matter of walking away from her as putting your foot down. And as for the comments of you saying that she looks at you like you are the most disgusting thing... sounds like what she needs is a lesson in respect. I could not imagine EVER treating my parents that way, oh wait... I could... and that would result in me getting my butt turned a lovely shade of lobster (still it would happen even though I'm now 28)....

I ,too, would have had a red butt!! I would sit for days... I never would and never will speak to my parents that way - even at 32!!



She is being horribly unreasonable!! You have to be cruel to be kind. Sounds to me like she has a lot of growing up to do!! I will be "that" person who brings this to attention...I by no means want to create any flames - but you are obviously looking for insight, advice or what not... Here I go:

I think the ground rules for her behaviour were set long before she was an adult. She obviously didn't just "became" this way.... As she wont change over night. I am not a perfect parent by any means, but feel that so many parents try to be their children's "friends" these days. That is not our job. Our job is to raise respectable members of society and give them all the skills and tools they need to do so in life, work, education, relationships and so on. Many children in this day and age have a way about them - they think they are entitled and better than others. I work in our local schools and see it every day. And it isnt just the high school kids - it starts when they are in Kindergarten....

I demand respect from my children and I get it. And yet we love each other, confide in each other and have fun with each other. But they know not to raise their voice to me, disrespect or swear at me or anythinge lse of that nature. We will see what happens when they get older, but as of right now in elementary and pre school, they know "No means No" and they have to give to get. I would NEVER and will NEVER disrespect my parents. I was another one who would have had a Lobster-Red bottom, just as my children would have and have had.

About the car - as my sons Kindergarten teachers asks: Are these things "Want-to's" or Have-to's"? I would think she would rather have a roof over her head and food on the table for herself and her son than a Fun car!! Who pays for her college now? Does she currently have a job? How old is the grandson involved?? A new car? is she crazy? If you dont have the money for it - you dont get it! I would love to go out and spend money friviously! But I have 3 children to care for, mouths to feed and bills to pay. Everything else comes next.

I agree with PPs who said to pull the reigns in slowly (not too slow) but surely! Be stearn, hold your ground , dont fight back - thats what she may be looking for. Don't take her means words to heart - she will realize one day how hurtful she has been and may live to regret it. You may be the only stability your GS will have. Don't lose sight of that and be prepared to go to court for him if necessary...

 

[surfergirl602]

HUgs to you all!!!!! I hope that you AREN'T co signing... for your own good.

 

[medicgirl911]

Dave Ramsey himself says to never co-sign on someones loan, because if they default, guess who is stuck with the payments!! Yep-- YOU! Plus, you don't get to even take the car because the title would be in your daughters name, not yours....so you could only sell it if she decided to be reasonable and give it up! I like what someone else has said about being friendly to the SIL, it sounds like you and he will probably end up raising this child. (Now I dont mean going overboard with SIL to get back at your DD or cause her pain, but a simple friendly relationship) I sincerley believe that we allow people to treat us in a certainw ay, you have allowed your daughter to treat you this way for too long now. Stand up for yourself, and if no one will go to family counseling together, then by all means go on your own!!

 

[fortcampers]

Time for some tough love! I have to agree that you need to cut the purse strings. Be there if she really needs help---you don't want her or the grandson to go hungry or have their lights turned off, but 2 cars for one person? Heck no! I believe kids learn from making mistakes and having to pay for things for themselves. We have an almost 20 yr old----pays his car insurance, gas and half his tuition at college that he attends full time while working full time. Son #2 is 17 and has worked summers since he was 15 and plays football. He pays his share of the insurance and his gas and spending money. We aren't rich and our kids had to learn early that if they wanted to drive a car and have spending money, they had to go out and earn it. We have helped them out when they changed jobs or when the 17 yr old was busy during football season and couldn't work and we helped him then, but we believe if we pay their way all the time, they won't ever learn the value of a dollar that they have to make and spend and that money doesn't go very far. Currently the 17 yr old drives a 1995 taurus with 275,000 miles on it and it is finally going down. We are helping him buy a used truck now---we are giving him the down payment and helping make the low payment until he graduates next June, but he still has to pay the insurance, gas and pay us $50 a month towards the payment. I guess my point is, you have to let them learn the value of a dollar and make mistakes. They have to fall before they can get up. My son just told me he was going to put the first tank of gas in the truck we get for him on Saturday since we have paid the last few tanks of gas for him since he has been busy with football. He said "you and dad have paid enough for gas for me and I am going to pay for the very first tank of gas in my truck". For him it is a sense of pride and accomplishment that he can do this for himself. I wish you lots of luck with your dd and dgs----it is so hard to raise kids and I can't imagine how hard it is to watch them as adults---the teen years are hard enough!

 

[Steve's Girl]

I agree, time for some tough love. I think you and DH may need to re-prioritize your finances as well. It sounds like you all need some family counseling. I'd cancel the Disney trip in your ticker and deal with the family issues first.

 

[AmyBWV99]

While you can't go back; you now have to look forward. She may have been spoilt to this point but you're not doing her any favors. What sounds like irresponsible at 22 can end up homeless at 62. What will she do when you're gone. Even if you left her a sizable estate how long would it possibly last? She'd obviously use it to 'purchase her way thru her grief' based on her current method of operation. What will become of your DGS, if she's haveing this much trouble focusing on him with all this help is it really help? Will he bring all his issues to your door step in 15 years?

It'll be a tough pill for her to swallow for a long time and brace yourself, things that are true of people like her are A. they always come back, even if she does keep your DGS away from you her friends and the slacker SIL will tire of being her only sitter outlet that alone will have her back in short order. B. she knows no other way to function and eventually all good favor will expire from her friends and family is all that is left to pick up the pieces as far as housing, cars etc.

This is the time IMO I would help with school, some child care during school and working hours if you're able and maybe the expense of resonable housing for her and her son pending the divorce settlement (i.e. not a 2500 sqft house but apartment) the rest left to her to figure out on her own. She's got to get her Big Girl Panties out, pull them up and it's game on.

I wouldn't take the car back I don't feel like that's a war worth waging the decline of the new loan would be enough of a bee in her bonnet.

 

[DVC-Don]

She sounds like Casey Anthony.