Weeding out the bad seeds

[wickywinn]

Ok, let me preface this by saying I am not prepared for my now second grader to grow up. I know I can be overprotective to some (esp the older crowd like my grandmother and aunts) but I don't think I'm insanely so. I have my rules regarding my children I expect those rules to be honored.

DS7 has a friend from school. A friend I have been wary about since I took DS7 to his birthday party last year. You know when you just feel like something's not right. Well, I felt it loud and clear and still do. But I know sometimes I tend to overreact when it comes to the kids and I'm trying to reign myself back a bit, knowing that he's a big boy now and no longer a baby or toddler. So I've allowed DS7 to go to his house a few times this summer - even allowed him to spend the night. But I made sure his mother was very aware of my rules with my child. No R rated movies, he does not go out front without an adult. The backyard is fine as long as they have a secure fence. And he, under no uncertain terms can go to the park by himself without an adult. This kid, you see, is allowed to just wander in and out of the house whenever he pleases and just wanders the neighborhood by himself, going so far as walking to the park and playing alone. I don't think he even tells them. When talking to his mom she seems so protective of him and she's so keen to please him all the time. It seems like they just let him run the show. Watch what he wants, come and go as he pleases. They include him in too much, you know? Or too little...I still haven't figured out which.

When I've had him over here for playdates, which is the majority of the time, since I can supervise them and keep them somewhat in check, I overhear him through DS7's door cussing and just saying things I don't approve of. I walked in the other day to find him holding my beloved 16 yo cat up by her abdomen with a rope hung around it. I just about lost it on the kid. He looked pretty scared. Now, I have to give my sons marks because, as much as they like him, they quietly came into the living room and told me what he was doing because they know what is right and wrong. His excuse was he was doing a test on her. Excuse me?! What kind of test would you put a rope around a poor cats' belly and lift her up with it?

I've also just recently found out his parents are heavy smokers in the house. DS7 told me they both smoke all the time while watching tv (hence why he's started coming over here instead). She just gave birth last Monday!!! The baby was 5.6 pounds. Now, I know for some this is a normal weight. Some people just have smaller babies that are perfectly healthy but I cannot help but think her chain smoking throughout her pregnancy helped.

I'm too forgiving though because I allowed myself to be talked into letting DS7 go over last night to spend the night. His mother swore up and down they'd be fine and play out on the trampoline until it was time to come in (I feel pretty stupid to have to tell this woman that DS7 has to come in before it's dark - isn't that common sense??). Now I feel so stupid after finding out what I have.

They stayed up and watched The Grudge 2 with his dad and, this morning, J(the boy) asked his mom and dad, with DS7 standing next to him, if they could go to the park. And they said yes! Go ahead. Bye-bye! Completely disregarding my stance that he is NOT allowed to go anywhere by himself. I tell her this every single time he goes to play and she swears she respects that. Yet, as soon as DS7 got in the car this morning he told me ashamedly "mom, J and I went to the park this morning by ourselves...J said it was ok and so did his mom when he asked her...I told them no, a mean man could get us but they said it was ok...I'm sorry mama...".

To put my child - my 7 yr old baby - into a situation like that, where he's supposed to decide what to do when an adult is supposed to be following my direction...I cannot describe how upset I am.

I don't know what to do...DH and I thought it'd die down by the time school starts Monday considering, they go to a very large school and there's at least a dozen 2nd grade classes. The odds of them being in the same class a third year in a rown are slim, right?

WRONG! They're in the same flippin' class again. I was hoping that would help slow it down. DS7 usually only hangs out with kids in his class. He's a popular kid and makes friends very easily. He has alot of boys at school that would love to have playdates. But J calls everyday and runs after me after school begging to come over or DS7 to come over. His mom calls me all the time for them to get together. I have to see this woman everyday almost at pick up.

I want to call and give her a piece of my mind but...ok, I'm chicken. I'll admit it. It turns my stomach knowing I have to deal with her not only this year but for several years coming.

So, what would you do dear readers? Any suggestions?

I forgot to mention that I am deadset that he is never going over there again. Ever. I just don't know how to approach it when they call or stop me at school...or do I call them before they get the chance. It is going to come up, I know. I know I'm going to have to confront her. But how. How when? That's where I'm torn...

 

[mrsbornkuntry]

sorry, double post.

 

[mrsbornkuntry]

Is your DS is any sports or activities? I've usually found that when my children repeatedly tell someone that they can't play because of whatever sport or something else we have going on they don't come by as much.

I've also noticed that my kids tend to pull away from the kids that don't follow the same rules we do. My 11yo DS asked the bus driver to assign him a different seat on the bus last year without my prompting because the boy sitting next to him was cussing and it made him uncomfortable. And they will just tell kids no when they ask to play with them and when the other kid asks for a reason my kids will just say "I just don't want to." I would watch for this to happen as your ds makes more friends.

 

[StephMK]

As the mom of a 3rd grade DS & 4th grade DD, I understand & feel for you! That is a tough situation, I'm not overprotective and pretty laid back imo but that would really bother me also. I'm a big non-confrontational person too but agree I'd never them play there again either. I would be livid about both the movie (I'm too scared to watch those!) & park and the blatant disregard for your requests.

I feel for J since he clearly enjoys your house & needs some structure, probably why he enjoys your place too. For that reason, I'd host some dates, not as many, but some. If she keeps calling to ask your son over, I think I would just calmly tell her that .... not sure what I'd tell her yet. Something that gets your point across w/o being overly critical of her ways. Maybe something to the effect not wanting to put your son in an awkward position since he can't do some of the things hers can.

I can't believe how big your school is! How many kids total in all grades? We have 3 classes & luckily DS is not with a kid I didn't like last year and realized the kid was not that nice to him.

We also have kids on the more "innocent" end of the spectrum for their ages. Another mom & I have talked about the maturity levels since hers is too. I do think it's very tough at this age because it seems the independence and interest levels vary widely now.

 

[JenLanDisney]

I agree that I would not want my DS in such a situation. You have every right to simply say "no thank you" when asked if your sons can play together regardless of the location.

I don't see a need to confront anyone (you're not going to change their lifestyle or parenting) nor do I see a need to give an explanation.

"Can DS come over to play at their house?" Answer: "No, we just can't make it."

Anyone who presses for more of an explanation can be handled by asking them a question or swiftly changing subjects to avoid a confrontation.

It's likely that your son will make new friends that more closely match your own lifestyle. Good Luck!

 

[dreamer423]

For me, that would be the last straw.

The other mother is clearly ignoring you. If you allow your DS there again, you're letting her know, her behavior is ok.

By letting the kid @ your house-you're letting your son know it's ok.

either way you'll be mad at yourself for wither not taking a stand or being worried about the kid @ your house. It sounds like a sad situation for the boy, but you didn't create it and you are not responsible for fixing it.

I do not like confrontation and have had to learn a few things..

1. No explanation is required. You feel bad so you feel like you need to give one. The more you talk the more you're opening up for the kid or the mom to talk you into it.

2. Here's a great phrase-- That doesn't work for me (us). Try it. Its the best thing that ever happened ot me.


good luck

 

[tadamom]

I feel for your situation as well. I agree with what others have said that you don't have to confront her...just say "no, we can't make it today". The other child and the parents will get the idea.

 

[drinkme]

Wow, if you change the children to 5th graders and girls, and make me a non-smoker, I would think you were talking about my family. My dd has a friend whose mother would let her play at our house, but not let her dd play outside in our yard unless I was outside. Ummmm...the kids are 10, no I'm not going outside to watch them. This mother was so overprotective it was ridiculous.

Anyway, if I were you I would do just what the other posters said. Just stop making play dates or responding to play dates. If you feel uncomfortable with the family, then you need to follow your instincts. This mother obviously feels comfortable letting her child go out to play alone. So, since you know that, then just do not allow your son over there. Tell your son this friend can only play at your house.

When my oldest was little, I wouldn't let her go to people's houses when I knew there were adults drinking. I made it quite clear to the parents that if drinking was going on, my dd would not be allowed over there, but their child could come to my place.

This is your child, don't worry if you offend the other parent.

HTH

 

[WDWorBUST]

I would simply say no when a playdate offer comes to their house. However, I would be prepared for the mom to "push" it eventually after so many nos. I would be prepared with an answer such as "I totally understand that everyone has different parenting styles, yours works for you and mine works for me. I don't allow my son to go to the park alone and you do allow the boys to. I am not comfortable with the boys going to the park alone as you know and you allowing it is putting my son in a difficult situation and I won't allow him to be put in it again."

 

[wickywinn]

Wow, if you change the children to 5th graders and girls, and make me a non-smoker, I would think you were talking about my family. My dd has a friend whose mother would let her play at our house, but not let her dd play outside in our yard unless I was outside. Ummmm...the kids are 10, no I'm not going outside to watch them. This mother was so overprotective it was ridiculous.

HTH

I'm not sure how I'll be at 10. We shall see. But I am ok with him playing in their backyard, without a parent sitting out there all the time, as long as I know there's a fence. I would prefer they check on them every once in awhile but I can't micromanage, I know that. If I could though...

I am obsessive about stranger danger. It's almost restrictive. I'll be the first to admit that so her disregarding my instructions for my child not going to the park alone really upsets me. There's no reason for that - they did not have to go.

Thanks for your ideas everyone. I tend to talk too much when uncomfortable and explain myself. This is a situation where I think I need to reel it in and keep it short, vague and to the point.

 

[cindykelley]

I feel your pain.

We've had a somewhat similar situation with a kid that lives directly across the street. He always wants our son to come there to play. He wanders over anytime without his parents knowing. He used to just walk in the house, but we broke him of that. My son wants to know why he can't go over there so we just told him. They don't watch the kids like they should and we don't trust that he's safe. We've seen their little one (about 2) wandering around the front yard alone.

We basically froze them out for a while. Stopped letting him go over...stopped inviting to birthday parties....etc. My kids are very active, so it was easy to always have something else to do. I think they got the message because he doesn't come over everyday anymore...maybe once a week. I think they've stopped expecting them to be best friends. My husband chewed him out once because he peed in our front yard and I think it scared the bejeeses out of him. That didn't hurt either.

 

[wickywinn]

Is your DS is any sports or activities? I've usually found that when my children repeatedly tell someone that they can't play because of whatever sport or something else we have going on they don't come by as much.

I've also noticed that my kids tend to pull away from the kids that don't follow the same rules we do. My 11yo DS asked the bus driver to assign him a different seat on the bus last year without my prompting because the boy sitting next to him was cussing and it made him uncomfortable. And they will just tell kids no when they ask to play with them and when the other kid asks for a reason my kids will just say "I just don't want to." I would watch for this to happen as your ds makes more friends.

Oh my yes! You have a point!!! He's in soccer and has practice twice a week. Games start the weekend after next and many times he'll have Saturday and Sunday games. Ooooh, I hadn't even thought about that - it will definitely make it alot easier. Thank you for reminding me of that - he's pretty close to his teammates. He's also in boy scouts so that also should take up alot of time.

And yes, he does seem to be pulling away, esp after this morning. I think that was the last straw for him. When I told him he wouldn't be going over there anymore he wasn't upset. He actually agreed with me then asked "can I go over to M's or K's then, mom?".

I'm so proud of my little boy. He's really good about coming to me when his friends do things he knows are wrong. Now, don't get me wrong...he's not a tattle-tell. He just knows when it's important enough to tell me and usually that's when it's upset him, like this morning.

 

[wickywinn]

I feel your pain.

We've had a somewhat similar situation with a kid that lives directly across the street. He always wants our son to come there to play. He wanders over anytime without his parents knowing. He used to just walk in the house, but we broke him of that. My son wants to know why he can't go over there so we just told him. They don't watch the kids like they should and we don't trust that he's safe. We've seen their little one (about 2) wandering around the front yard alone.

We basically froze them out for a while. Stopped letting him go over...stopped inviting to birthday parties....etc. My kids are very active, so it was easy to always have something else to do. I think they got the message because he doesn't come over everyday anymore...maybe once a week. I think they've stopped expecting them to be best friends. My husband chewed him out once because he peed in our front yard and I think it scared the bejeeses out of him. That didn't hurt either.

I don't even want to think about if he lived across the street! You poor thing!

 

[wickywinn]

I feel for your situation as well. I agree with what others have said that you don't have to confront her...just say "no, we can't make it today". The other child and the parents will get the idea.

I see your Michael is 7 days younger than the aforementioned DS7. Small world! At least yours wasn't a day after baby...(9-11)

 

[wickywinn]

We also have kids on the more "innocent" end of the spectrum for their ages. Another mom & I have talked about the maturity levels since hers is too. I do think it's very tough at this age because it seems the independence and interest levels vary widely now.

I'm beginning to notice mine are more on the innocent side as well. DS& is an odd combination of extremely outgoing and bold and yet innocent. He's just such a happy, positive boy. All the kids seem to love him though - he doesn't give you much choice not to! Yet at the same time, he doesn't take any you-know-what. He knows how to stand up for himself and does so with bravado. If my DS5 were in this situation I would be doubly worried. He's very innocent, sweet and happy to be the follower. He's also super-super sensitive. I ache thinking about that sweet boy growing up in such a big school.

 

[Stephres]

Kids know when other kids don't follow the rules. My son had a playdate over who broke something of my husband's and was generally out of control. After he left my son looked at me sheepishly and said he knew he wouldn't be over for a playdate again. If you don't feel safe with your son going over to this child's house (and I wouldn't) I would tell him that they can only play at your house and only if this child follows your rules. Your son at seven will know it's the right thing to do. Meanwhile, start meeting the parents of the other boys in the class!

Good luck!

 

[chrisw127]

Don't apologize to them, don't apologize to your kid, and don't apologize to us. Go with your gut; you know you're right. That's all that matters.

 

[badblackpug]

Does your son want to play with this child? If so, I would host all the play dates at your house. Maybe not as many as as the child wants, but any dates that you do have. I also think you should "man up" and talk to the mother about what happened. You don't have to flip out on her, but explain to her that you are upset about what happened. You also have to be prepared to send the child home when he breaks your house rules. You may also want to re-evaluate some of your rules. I am not sure about the park thing. I think that depends on your neighborhood an the location of the park. (our park is right across the street) but a 7 year old is old enough to know not to play in the street and old enough to know how to properly cross a street, given it is not a major thoroughfare. So the "must have a fence" thing may be a bit too much. I am totally with you on the "R" rated movies, though. The other issue is your son. He knows he is not allowed to go to the park. He should not have gone, regardless of what the other mother said. He needs to be taught to stand up to his friends. He should be taught that when a friend is breaking the rules, or others are doing things that he is not allowed to do that he should "go along with the crowd." He should be taught in instances like that to call home.

 

[Hannathy]

Does your son want to play with this child? If so, I would host all the play dates at your house. Maybe not as many as as the child wants, but any dates that you do have. I also think you should "man up" and talk to the mother about what happened. You don't have to flip out on her, but explain to her that you are upset about what happened. You also have to be prepared to send the child home when he breaks your house rules. You may also want to re-evaluate some of your rules. I am not sure about the park thing. I think that depends on your neighborhood an the location of the park. (our park is right across the street) but a 7 year old is old enough to know not to play in the street and old enough to know how to properly cross a street, given it is not a major thoroughfare. So the "must have a fence" thing may be a bit too much. I am totally with you on the "R" rated movies, though. The other issue is your son. He knows he is not allowed to go to the park. He should not have gone, regardless of what the other mother said. He needs to be taught to stand up to his friends. He should be taught that when a friend is breaking the rules, or others are doing things that he is not allowed to do that he should "go along with the crowd." He should be taught in instances like that to call home.

I agree!!

Especially about the no fence and that your son also needs to learn to follow your rules, he disobeyed also, was that dealt with? Learning to stand up for your principals starts now, if you want him to be able to do it as a teen, it doesn't suddenly appear overnight at 14.

The no fence rule would mean all the kids my son plays with would never go outside!!! rather counter productive to good kid play. I don't get this rule with older kids, why is it in place? do you truly feel he isn't mature enough to stay where he is at? that is the only reason for a fence to contain something.

 

[sk!mom]

To put my child - my 7 yr old baby - into a situation like that, where he's supposed to decide what to do when an adult is supposed to be following my direction...I cannot describe how upset I am.

I'm not going to get into whether or not you are overprotective but I will point out that 7 isn't a baby. You really need to raise your expectations of your son's ability to follow your rules, imo.

I really think that your anger is misplaced. My children have always known the rules and I've raised them to understand that if they aren't mature enough to speak up or call me if a rule is about to be broken then they will be staying home. You should be angry with your son for going to the park alone when he knows it isn't allowed.

You've known from pretty much the beginning of this friendship that the other parents do not provide the level of supervision that you deem appropriate yet you've continued to let your DS go over there. As far as how you now avoid it, just always say "no." Eventually they'll quit asking.