Was the Teacher Justified?

[stashbin]

What does that mean?

It was in response to Suzy Zoo.

 

[Suzie Zoo]

After reading some of your posts I tend to believe you were one of the ones running to the couch.
That was not mean spirited by the way. I am kidding.

Yeah, um.. no.

I was the quiet one who always did what I was supposed to do and NEVER got into trouble. Not once. You'd think after a while I would have realized that I should just have fun with everyone else since I was going to get punished for it anyway.

Maybe if this wasn't the norm, it wouldn't have taken me so long to realize that it's okay to stick up for myself.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

I voted no...but in reality...this is common in all aspects of school... it's hopes that peer pressure will get the other kids to do what they are supposed to.

 

[teacherforhi]

This is why I wound up resenting some of my teachers. They had no control, so we all suffered.

I have control. As I said in my post, this has just become a problem in the past week or so. My way of dealing with the problem is taking the couch out of the equation. Today, there was a remarkable improvement in classroom instructions being followed the very first time. If the correct behavior continues to being exhibited, then the couch will be back.

 

[Becky2005]

My way of dealing with the problem is taking the couch out of the equation. Today, there was a remarkable improvement in classroom instructions being followed the very first time. If the correct behavior continues to being exhibited, then the couch will be back.

Ah but you control the couch and can take it out or put it back in. How in the world do the OTHER kids have control if Johnny forgets his gym uniform?

They don't -- I suppose the equivelent would be if Suzy kept having no writing utensils, you made the entire class write a 500 word essay on why it's important to have a writing utensil. In that case, another kid could give her a writing utensil -- another kid *can't* give someone a gym uniform!

The kids have absolutely no control over if another kid brings in their PE uniforms or not. I'm lucky if my kid remembers HIS much less worry about what his classmates are doing. He worries about getting to class on time for himself, NOT if everyone in the locker room is dressed and to their spots on time.

Shouldn't Suzy get an unsatisfactory in the "is prepared for class" instead of everyone having to write the essay?

 

[CowboyCO]

I am not a teacher- nor would I want to be. Group punishment is wrong. Try to justify punishing kids who did nothing wrong.... it's ridiculous and it wouldn't hold up at work "Gee, Mrs. Stashbin... Mr. Lazy Butt didn't get his grades posted by the deadline... I'm afraid all of you teachers are going to have to stay until he does" Too bad so sad, Maybe Mr. Butt will do what he's supposed to next time.

But how many times in a classroom, when half the class is being unruly during a group project or discussion, does the teacher finally say,

"OK- Everybody sit down and take out a sheet of paper. We're going to have a little pop quiz..." or

"OK - everybody sit down and take out your textbooks and turn to chapter 4. Instead of discussion on chapter 3, everybody will silently read chapter 4 until the end of the class period."

This is group punishment, too! And it works. The next time kids are getting unruly, the students will begin to police themselves.

 

[auntie]

I've not read all 9 pages of responses. It just seems to me that the entire class shouldn't suffer in this situation. It isn't a sport that they chose to join, and they are effecting their team mates or the performance of the team. It occurs to me that these kids are in the 6th grade..and it's their parents who have to purchase the required uniforms. Perhaps there are one or two kids whose parents just don't have the extra money for a gym uniform right now. Now, I'm not saying 14 of them...but likely there might be one or two facing that situation. I think the teacher should have phoned the parents and made it clear that the kids are required to wear uniforms and be prepared, also inquiring as to whether it might be a hardship at this particular time for them. If after that it happened again, the teacher should have kept them for detention and notified the parents as to why.

 

[Mermaid02]

But how many times in a classroom, when half the class is being unruly during a group project or discussion, does the teacher finally say,

"OK- Everybody sit down and take out a sheet of paper. We're going to have a little pop quiz..." or

"OK - everybody sit down and take out your textbooks and turn to chapter 4. Instead of discussion on chapter 3, everybody will silently read chapter 4 until the end of the class period."

This is group punishment, too! And it works. The next time kids are getting unruly, the students will begin to police themselves.

I disagree- only the kids who WANT to behave are going to behave. If Johnny Jumpup doesn't give a flip about silent reading or running laps or staying after school- he sure isn't going to care if the rest of the kids have to do it.

 

[stashbin]

I think with 14 students forgetting their uniform it may be more than just a case of parents who can't afford the uniform. It depends on the situation. In this case the teacher MUST have felt that this type of discipline was warranted. After all, she spends P.E. each day with this group of kids. All parents hear is their child's side of the story, and often times it is after the parent speaks with the teacher that the whole truth comes out. Now again, I have to say that if this type of punishment does not get the response she is expecting, then she needs to try something else. I do not feel that repetitive punishment of the innocent will solve the uniform problem....but one time might be all it takes especially since there were so many of them out of compliance.

 

[MushyMushy]

I think with 14 students forgetting their uniform it may be more than just a case of parents who can't afford the uniform. It depends on the situation. In this case the teacher MUST have felt that this type of discipline was warranted. After all she spends PE each day with this group of kids. All parents hear is their child's side of the story and often times it is after the parent speaks with the teacher that the whole truth comes out. Now again, I have to say that if this type of punishment does not get the response she is expecting, then she needs to try something else. I do not feel that repetitive punishment of the innocent will solve the uniform problem....but one time might be all it takes especially since there were so many of them out of compliance.

My daughter was in a class last year where they were bad for a sub one day and her teacher punished the whole class for it -- even though my DD and a couple of other kids didn't do a thing wrong (they all had to do lunch detention for a week). Plenty of those kids griped about it and my daughter whined about it being unfair. I even thought it was pretty unfair.

That class never acted up for a sub again, though.

Of all the injustices that go on in schools, and all the abuses that happen with power-hungry administrators and/or teachers, these group punishments are the last thing I'd think to complain about. The kids will live, and most of them will learn.

 

[stashbin]

Yeah, um.. no.

I was the quiet one who always did what I was supposed to do and NEVER got into trouble. Not once. You'd think after a while I would have realized that I should just have fun with everyone else since I was going to get punished for it anyway.

Maybe if this wasn't the norm, it wouldn't have taken me so long to realize that it's okay to stick up for myself.

I can see your frustration. I don't blame you one bit. However, speaking from experience, I know first hand that group punishment does work for some students. It did for me. I was the one who acted up in class. I was the one the teachers gave punish assignments because of!
When those kids put the pressure on me to shut up, sit down, and stop acting like an idiot, believe me it had a much larger affect on me than when the teacher issued the assignment.
Now that I am in the teacher's shoes, I understand why the class received a group punishment. Did it stink...absolutely. But did it affect me to the detriment of my well being as an adult? No.

 

[stashbin]

My daughter was in a class last year where they were bad for a sub one day and her teacher punished the whole class for it -- even though my DD and a couple of other kids didn't do a thing wrong (they all had to do lunch detention for a week). Plenty of those kids griped about it and my daughter whined about it being unfair. I even thought it was pretty unfair.

That class never acted up for a sub again, though.

Of all the injustices that go on in schools, and all the abuses that happen with power-hungry administrators and/or teachers, these group punishments are the last thing I'd think to complain about. The kids will live, and most of them will learn.

Wow! I must be a softy! My kids act up for a sub and I give them ONE group writing assignment...your kid's teacher gives a whole week of detention!!!!
I am glad you were supportive of the teacher though. Although you as a parent did not think it was fair for your dd to be punished, you still made sure your child knew why it was necessary.

 

[stashbin]

I disagree- only the kids who WANT to behave are going to behave. If Johnny Jumpup doesn't give a flip about silent reading or running laps or staying after school- he sure isn't going to care if the rest of the kids have to do it.

But he may care that no one wants to sit by him or talk to him because he gets them in trouble all of the time.....kids work in mysterious ways.

 

[Illuminations_Rocks]

I think it was a perfectly fine punishment. Why? It was PE.
Didn't read the whole thread. I voted that it was fine that they all ran.

We had PE 3/6 days per cycle. 2/6 we ran for 1/2 hour. The other one we did aerobics by a video. BTW our classes were 1 1/2 hours long...

There's nothing wrong with running in gym class. I'm sure they would be doing some other physical activity otherwise, and that they probably just don't enjoy the running so the teacher picked that one.

I don't think some other "punishment" would really have fit. It IS gym class... And what were those who brought their uniforms supposed to do otherwise? Sit there and laugh? No, it's PE, they should also be active. And someone would surely be upset about that and posting a vent on the boards.

At my school, if you forgot your gym clothes, you had to participate in your regular clothes.... remember, our classes were 1 1/2 hours long.... ew.

 

[auntie]

I think with 14 students forgetting their uniform it may be more than just a case of parents who can't afford the uniform. It depends on the situation. In this case the teacher MUST have felt that this type of discipline was warranted. After all, she spends P.E. each day with this group of kids. All parents hear is their child's side of the story, and often times it is after the parent speaks with the teacher that the whole truth comes out. Now again, I have to say that if this type of punishment does not get the response she is expecting, then she needs to try something else. I do not feel that repetitive punishment of the innocent will solve the uniform problem....but one time might be all it takes especially since there were so many of them out of compliance.

I don't think all fourteen of them can't afford a gym uniform..but it might be an issue for one or two.. Again, my feeling is it's NOT a team sport..which they all decided to join, and they are effecting the team. This is a classroom situation. Albeit a gym classroom.
It just brings to mind a situation I encountered when my son was in the third grade. There was a "prize" or reward of extra recess time, to the class that had a 100 percent membership sign up for the PTA. Meaning the kids parents had to join PTA, and any class that had 100 % membership, was rewarded. I remember how a boy in my son's class, whose mom was a widow and working two jobs, didn't(couldn't) spare the membership money. All the kids knew was that this one boy didn't bring in his membership money and "ruined" it for them. He took a lot of grief over it, through no fault of his own. The teacher even reminding him..in a not so nice way, to bring in his money. Giving the impression that he was just forgetful..and irresponsible. While in fact, his mom couldn't afford it. Of course, he also didn't want to say that. This story just brought that to mind. While I'm quite sure most of the boys were simply being irresponsible, the gym instructor shouldn't assume every was. I think there were a couple of steps she could have taken prior to this.