Walt Disney World is getting out of the golf business

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From the Orlando Sentinel:

Disney World to turn golf courses over to Arnold Palmer group

By Jason Garcia, Orlando Sentinel

1:40 p.m. EDT, August 24, 2011

After four decades, Walt Disney World is getting out of the golf business.

The giant resort said Wednesday it has struck a 20-year-deal to turn over its five golf courses to a group headlined by legendary golfer Arnold Palmer. The move pairs Disney World's courses with one of golf's best-recognized brand names while also allowing the resort step back from a business that has become less attractive amid competition from a glut of new courses built during the housing bubble.

Under the deal, Arnold Palmer Golf Management will take over day-to-day operations of each of Disney World's golf courses: Palm, Magnolia, Lake Buena Vista, Osprey Ridge and Oak Trail. Financial terms weren't disclosed, though the Palmer group will make annual lease payments to Disney and split revenue earned from the courses with the resort.

Roughly 330 Disney employees will be impacted by the move. Disney said each will be offered other jobs, at comparable pay, elsewhere at the resort.

For Disney, a key attraction is the involvement of Palmer, considered one of the greatest players in the history of professional golf. The resort is banking on the association with Palmer to help set its courses apart in a crowded marketplace and lure more golfers who may have ignored Disney World in the past.

"This deal would not have gotten done if it had not been for Mr. Palmer's engagement and his desire to associate his brand with the Disney brand," said Ken Potrock, senior vice president of Disney Sports Enterprises.

As part of the deal, Palmer will personally oversee a redesign of Disney's Palm course. The renovation isn't likely to be complete until at least 2013.

Representatives for Palmer said he was unavailable for comment Wednesday. But in a prepared statement issued by Disney, the retired golfer said, "After 40 years as a golf course architect, I'm looking forward to this opportunity to contribute to Disney's rich and storied golf legacy. I've enjoyed a lifetime of memories playing golf and it will be a great reward to pass that on to those who share a passion both for Disney and the game of golf."

But the deal is also designed to get Disney itself out of the golf business, which has become much more challenging in recent years, particularly in Orlando and the rest of Florida. A glut of new courses — many built as part of residential subdivisions that sprouted during the housing boom — has forced operators to slash green fees to lure golfers, eroding profitability.

"There's too many courses and not enough players," said Tom Stine, co-founder of Golf Datatech, a golf-industry research company based in Kissimmee. "It's made the Orlando market very, very competitive from an operator standpoint."

Golf courses are also expensive to run. Stine said annual operating and maintenance costs for a single course can exceed $1 million — and Disney, which has a critically important image to protect, likely spends more than most. "You don't ever see a blade of grass uncut anywhere on the Disney World property," Stine said.

Disney began scaling back its golf operations several years ago when it opted to close a sixth course, Eagle Pines, and use the land for a new subdivision of multimillion-dollar homes. That project, dubbed "Golden Oak," is currently under construction.

Disney also has a deal in place to sell its Osprey Ridge course to Toronto-based Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, which plans to build one of its luxury hotels at Disney World. That project has been delayed until at least 2014 and Arnold Palmer Golf Management will operate the course until the Four Seasons is built.

The Arnold Palmer group will take over Disney's courses beginning Sept. 25.

Disney said turning to an outside company is as much about drawing traffic as it is about cutting costs.

In addition to being able to market Palmer's involvement, Disney also hopes to tap into a membership organization run by the company dubbed "Palmer Advantage." Members pay $120 a year for access and benefits at an assortment of courses and clubs around the country.

Century Golf Partners, the Addison, Texas, firm that owns Arnold Palmer Golf Management, said Palmer Advantage currently has between 5,000 and 6,000 members. But that number swells to nearly 130,000 when including members of the individual golf clubs within the network.

It's a pool of golf enthusiasts that Disney has had difficulty dipping into on its own.

"This allows us to reach people that we haven't been able to reach previously that haven't considered Disney golf as a destination for them," Potrock said. "These are guys that are going to spend not just golf time here, but, because they are going to bring their families, they're going to spend resort time, too."

Even 130,000 people is a pittance compared to Disney World's overall traffic; the resort's four theme parks drew an estimated 47.1 million visitors last year. But such untapped pockets of travelers are becoming more important to Disney as it attempts to squeeze more growth of its massive Orlando property.

The strategy is driving other projects at the resort, as well, such as the conversion of 23 suites in Disney World's high-end Contemporary Resort into "health-and-wellness" suites with features such as bamboo floors, massage tables and access to a private yoga studio.

The deal with Disney World is among the biggest yet for Arnold Palmer Golf Management, which operates more than 70 courses around the United States. The company has previously struck five-course deals in Myrtle Beach, S.C., and Palm Beach Gardens, where it runs the PGA National Resort and Spa.

"To add a destination that includes options for a full-service family vacation was very attractive," said Doug Howe, a partner with parent company Century Golf, a privately held firm that says it did $250 million in revenue last year. "What we're seeing here now, with baby boomers retiring, is a lot of golf enthusiast — men and women, grandma and grandpa — are taking their grandkids out courses. They have the time and the willingness to travel."

Disney World has an extensive history of golf management. The Palm and Magnolia courses were part of the original resort that opened in 1971. The resort has also hosted an annual PGA tour event — now called the Children's Miracle Network Hospitals Classic — for 41 years.

Potrock said Disney is confident its customer experience will not suffer in Arnold Palmer's hands.

"I would tell you that, if it was a anybody else but the Palmer organization, with their track record, I think there would have been a much a greater level of trepidation [within Disney]," Potrock said.

jrgarcia@tribune.com or 407-420-5414
 
how long before they want out of the theme park business as well?

really seems to be heading that way at the moment.
 
how long before they want out of the theme park business as well?

really seems to be heading that way at the moment.

:lmao: Overaction much? Very much.

This makes a ton of sense. Golf courses are so expensive to run. A top notch course can run up over $1 million in maintenance cost alone. That doesn't even count money spent on the workforce and food and beverages. So just using that figure, it costs $5 million every year to keep the courses looking the way they do. There are so many courses in Orlando that nothing really stands out about the Disney courses. I'm sorry, but when I think of Disney I don't think of golf. I have not had any interest in golfing at WDW. None.

Arnie changes my feelings a lot. There is NO ONE in the golf industry like Arnie. Just take a look at his portfolio. I have golfed at a few of his courses and I have to tell you, they really are the best. And the idea that he could be coming and making some changes to the courses, has me very excited.

Im actually a little more excited now to golf at WDW. And thats the point of all this. I actually talked about this to some people that I golf with. They had known about the Disney courses before and werent too interested either. But after hearing Arnie is in charge, they suddenly became very interested. I think the fact that his name is now attached to the courses will make it more popular with golfers. Plus Disney can now use the money saved on costs there on other resort expenses.
 
HMMMM, I wonder if we will still get cast member discounts on the courses.
They were really great deals in the winter.

Ted
 

granted...golf is one thing that they can probably outsource without impact to save money...

but should i bother to repeat my warnings on practically every subject that outsourcing is only beginning to ramp up?

It would seem redundant at this point:surfweb:


Here's a prediction though: all hotel and restaurant operations by 2025....

how's that one?
 
granted...golf is one thing that they can probably outsource without impact to save money...

but should i bother to repeat my warnings on practically every subject that outsourcing is only beginning to ramp up?

It would seem redundant at this point:surfweb:


Here's a prediction though: all hotel and restaurant operations by 2025....

how's that one?

not until 2025? I say 2020.
 
In a way it's a shame.
But I agree that they'll outsource almost everything they can. I can see the restaurants going first--then possibly the hotels.

Sometimes that's better--and often it isn't.
 
Originally Posted by DisneyTraveler18
Plus Disney can now use the money saved on costs there on other resort expenses.

or as pure profit to keep the shareholders happy :)

Or towards Iger's multimillion $ bonus at the end of year! I'm sure the savings will not be directed towards improvements in the parks/resorts.
 
I must admit this bummed me out a bit...so much that I kinda went on a rant about it on my blog :rotfl: I agree with everything above...golf is a lousy business, but I hate to see them outsource it. That rock has been rolling down the mountain for a while, and I agree it has a lot further to go. I think the hotels and restaurants are only a matter of time.

But the golf was personal for me, as my family has a long history with Disney golf...Granddad played in the first Golf Classic, Dad played in later years, and many childhood memories center around those courses. I know not everyone has that sort of connection, but I do, and I hate to see Disney bail on the business. Mr Palmer is a great man, and I hope he can turn it around...
 
Golf courses all over the county are closing due to the economy and costs of all the upkeep with them.

Just be glad Disney has not just yet decided to follow the others!
 
Companies (disney included) usually have a history of outsourcing to insourcing in cycles. They will often outsource portions of their business and over time start to insource again....the Economy has a big part of it, but also when something has been run in house for a long period of time it often has a budget that keeps growing above pace as well. Outsourcing than becomes appealing...until one day someone says "we can do this ourselves" and brings it back in, usually increasing profits until that budget begins to grow again.
 
Mr. Palmer is one of the best in the business.

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
granted...golf is one thing that they can probably outsource without impact to save money...

but should i bother to repeat my warnings on practically every subject that outsourcing is only beginning to ramp up?

It would seem redundant at this point


Here's a prediction though: all hotel and restaurant operations by 2025....

how's that one?


WDW resorts by Marriott?
 
This will be an invisible transition from the guest experience side of things. The Palmer company is great and knows what they are doing. Disney has done a very good job with the golf over the years, but it isn't their specialty. I'd rather they outsource the golf and focus on the parks.
 
WDW resorts by Marriott?

Yes...though that would be a conflict between DVC and Marriott.


That would actually be a huge improvement. The WDW resorts are just EXPENSIVE...they are certainly not well run.

The employees are low quality due to pay, reduced hiring standards, lack of advancement, and turnover.

A company such as Marriott would more than likely be an upgrade...because they have traditionally not been tied to the minimum wage scale. You get what you pay for.

Disney was not either...but they are now and the minute that became a reality it altered the path of service immensely.
 
I don't know what you're talking about I have no problem with Disney employees nor the resorts themselves overpriced yes but if you think about it they really only make money off souvenirs and food in the parks they need to overprice the hotels to make money
Yes...though that would be a conflict between DVC and Marriott.


That would actually be a huge improvement. The WDW resorts are just EXPENSIVE...they are certainly not well run.

The employees are low quality due to pay, reduced hiring standards, lack of advancement, and turnover.

A company such as Marriott would more than likely be an upgrade...because they have traditionally not been tied to the minimum wage scale. You get what you pay for.

Disney was not either...but they are now and the minute that became a reality it altered the path of service immensely.
 
I don't know what you're talking about I have no problem with Disney employees nor the resorts themselves overpriced yes but if you think about it they really only make money off souvenirs and food in the parks they need to overprice the hotels to make money

I'm speaking from experience.

The reality is that the hotels run in spite of themselves.

Its a crazy collection of low paid employees...underpaid entry level managers...college students and internationals on a short term durations...and a legion of immigrants and transplants from all over the US of ecclectic backgrounds...

its a crazy operation...and to top it all off:

they hire anybody with a pulse at minimum wage...and there is a pre-determined limit...the "union" negotiate "top out".

so if you are the greatest worker in history...you know that you will be worth 3-5 dollars more...maximum. Be it 7 years down the road or 70.

And the average wait to starting management....which is lower pay than standard industry rates...is probably between 4-8 years. That is a problem for a variety of reasons as well.

That's a problem in hotels where all jobs involve service. ALL jobs are basically service. Unlike loading people on space mountain or taking cash for mickey plushes at WOD.

Disney's movement in regards to labor costs and compensation since about 1990 is incompatible with providing what can be considered 3 or 4 star service. That is an industry fact. No where else on earth are there minimum wage paid "concierge". It is laughable. No where else are service employees forbidden from accepting gratuities. That system breeds better service...to ban it breeds resentment and possible misconduct. It's stupid.

so i got a little background on this one...that's where i'm coming from.

My point is that if an outside operation (a top end one....not La Quinta) were to take over the operations and not make minimum wage the goal for everybody...the actual lodging customer service would most like improve....

whether they wear nametags or not.:wizard:
 
Disney's movement in regards to labor costs and compensation since about 1990 is incompatible with providing what can be considered 3 or 4 star service. That is an industry fact. No where else on earth are there minimum wage paid "concierge". It is laughable. No where else are service employees forbidden from accepting gratuities. That system breeds better service...to ban it breeds resentment and possible misconduct. It's stupid.

:thumbsup2
 
I'm speaking from experience.

The reality is that the hotels run in spite of themselves.

Its a crazy collection of low paid employees...underpaid entry level managers...college students and internationals on a short term durations...and a legion of immigrants and transplants from all over the US of ecclectic backgrounds...

its a crazy operation...and to top it all off:

they hire anybody with a pulse at minimum wage...and there is a pre-determined limit...the "union" negotiate "top out".

so if you are the greatest worker in history...you know that you will be worth 3-5 dollars more...maximum. Be it 7 years down the road or 70.

And the average wait to starting management....which is lower pay than standard industry rates...is probably between 4-8 years. That is a problem for a variety of reasons as well.

That's a problem in hotels where all jobs involve service. ALL jobs are basically service. Unlike loading people on space mountain or taking cash for mickey plushes at WOD.

Disney's movement in regards to labor costs and compensation since about 1990 is incompatible with providing what can be considered 3 or 4 star service. That is an industry fact. No where else on earth are there minimum wage paid "concierge". It is laughable. No where else are service employees forbidden from accepting gratuities. That system breeds better service...to ban it breeds resentment and possible misconduct. It's stupid.

so i got a little background on this one...that's where i'm coming from.

My point is that if an outside operation (a top end one....not La Quinta) were to take over the operations and not make minimum wage the goal for everybody...the actual lodging customer service would most like improve....

whether they wear nametags or not.:wizard:

I gotcha now.

I can see Disney outsourcing resturants. That doesn't seem like a huge stretch to me. I just can't see them outsourcing the hotels, given that they are the biggest money makers on property (although now that I think about it, dropping the cost and taking the profit would be an ideal situation for them) So I say who knows what is going to happen but let's hope the castle isn't left rotting in 10 years
 
My first visit to Orlando in the early 80's was to Arnold Palmer's Bay Hill Club. It was a long time ago but if their standards are the same the Disney courses will only improve under his company's management.
 


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