Walking a reservation

[Cfabar1]

1 BR units are a terrific value at certain resorts where the studios are so favorable that a 1 BR becomes favorable because of just how amazing the studio deal is....

BUT.... I would also point out... for those of us with kids... a 1 BR is an amazing deal in and of itself. A FULL kitchen, a WASHER/DRYER, a PRIVATE bedroom for the adults... compared to a hotel, that is priceless in and of itself...

 

[Girlstar30]

I personally am against them changing rules that will inevitably "punish" regular users. I am being greatly affected by the stupid one transfer in and out rule that is supposedly supposed to stop commercial renters, which it hasnt. People who cheat will always find a way.

Meanwhile, juggling three memberships and not wanting to sell points was unavoidable with my situation because they refused to transfer a few points for a second time. So now i was forced to rent and put more rentals out there. I wrote a letter to them about this. And you better believe if im being forced to rent to not lose points im going to try to choose highly sought out reservations too for more money. Because I never wanted to rent in the first place.

So now this rule change put me in a position to be a renter so i dont lose points because they wont transfer the points for me for my own personal use. Real effective.

I wouldnt want to have to wake up early and call every day to add on day by day to try to prevent commercial renting. Imagine international and others that have to wake up way earlier than 8 am. The commercial renters are going to be calling too. Its like with many programs there is always fraud and the solutions out there do punish regular people.

I do not want more rules of what I can and cannot do. Plans change and owners should be able to modify their reservations in peace, we pay a lot of money for these points to book within the window at our discretion. If this product is bogged down by a bunch of rules that prevent me even further from booking when i am not a commercial renter, but just someone whose plans change, I would probably seriously consider selling. The transfer rules have soured me to the product somewhat although not enough for me to be completely done. More rules would probably do it.


They need to just figure out who is commerical renting and start sending them letters to STOP.

 

[muppets3d]

I personally am against them changing rules that will inevitably "punish" regular users. I am being greatly affected by the stupid one transfer in and out rule that is supposedly supposed to stop commercial renters, which it hasnt. People who cheat will always find a way.

Meanwhile, juggling three memberships and not wanting to sell points was unavoidable with my situation because they refused to transfer a few points for a second time. So now i was forced to rent and put more rentals out there. I wrote a letter to them about this.

How I've been forced to sell leftover points so i dont lose them because they wont transfer the points for me for my own personal use.

I wouldnt want to have to wake up early and call every day to add on day by day to try to prevent commercial renting. The commercial renters are going to be calling too. Its like with many programs there is always fraud and the solutions out there do punish regular people.

I do not want more rules of what I can and cannot do. Plans change and owners should be able to modify their reservations in peace, we pay a lot of money for these points to book within the window at our discretion. If this product is bogged down by a bunch of rules that prevent me even further from booking when i am not a commercial renter, but just someone whose plans change, I would probably seriously consider selling. The transfer rules have soured me to the product somewhat although not enough for me to be completely done More rules would probably do it.


They need to just figure out who is commerical renting and start sending them letters to STOP.

It's an important point, any time DVC makes a policy change - out of 250k+ members (the vast majority of which use the program as intended; to book personal vacations for themselves and their family), at least a handful will be impacted negatively.

 

[Tatebeck]

I personally am against them changing rules that will inevitably "punish" regular users. I am being greatly affected by the stupid one transfer in and out rule that is supposedly supposed to stop commercial renters, which it hasnt. People who cheat will always find a way.

Meanwhile, juggling three memberships and not wanting to sell points was unavoidable with my situation because they refused to transfer a few points for a second time. So now i was forced to rent and put more rentals out there. I wrote a letter to them about this. And you better believe if im being forced to rent to not lose points im going to try to choose highly sought out reservations too for more money. Because I never wanted to rent in the first place.

So now this rule change put me in a position to be a renter so i dont lose points because they wont transfer the points for me for my own personal use. Real effective.

I wouldnt want to have to wake up early and call every day to add on day by day to try to prevent commercial renting. Imagine international and others that have to wake up way earlier than 8 am. The commercial renters are going to be calling too. Its like with many programs there is always fraud and the solutions out there do punish regular people.

I do not want more rules of what I can and cannot do. Plans change and owners should be able to modify their reservations in peace, we pay a lot of money for these points to book within the window at our discretion. If this product is bogged down by a bunch of rules that prevent me even further from booking when i am not a commercial renter, but just someone whose plans change, I would probably seriously consider selling. The transfer rules have soured me to the product somewhat although not enough for me to be completely done. More rules would probably do it.


They need to just figure out who is commerical renting and start sending them letters to STOP.

The rule has always been max 1 transfer per year. For a while they were allowing members to transfer between their own contracts more than once, but the rule itself has never allowed more than one transfer. Just like how banking/borrowing is a final transaction according to the rules but occasionally cast members can make magic happen for you. Depending upon exceptions to the written rules every year would make me very nervous and I wouldn't have wanted to rely on something like that regularly at all.

That is why it take s a lot of hard thought before deciding on multiple memberships and a lot of members will warn against it or caution it in every thread that is started that asks about it. There are plusses, like making it less likely that points expire, extra waitlists, etc. But rules like the transfer limit are the tradeoff. Most members will not want more than 1, though IMO 2 memberships is still very safe because you can transfer all of one membership into the other each year if needed and still functionally use it like one membership if you really wanted to. 3 to me is a no-go unless truly wanting to use them completely separately from any other points (like an Aulani, HHI, VB that you fully plan to use every year or something)

I do agree that they should probably avoid going back to the old booking rule. Forcing every member to log in every day to add a day would be very tedious. But there are much easier ways they could modify the system without having major effects on how normal members book.

 

[Tatebeck]

It's an important point, any time DVC makes a policy change - out of 250k+ members (the vast majority of which use the program as intended; to book personal vacations for themselves and their family), at least a handful will be impacted negatively.

True, but over time changes still have to be made to keep the product running smoothly.

You simply can't avoid changing anything forever just because no solution is 100% perfect. We would still be require to book by phone, every time and add one day at a time at the 11 month window if they didn't adjust the rules with the membership over time

 

[Girlstar30]

The rule has always been max 1 transfer per year. For a while they were allowing members to transfer between their own contracts more than once, but the rule itself has never allowed more than one transfer. Just like how banking/borrowing is a final transaction according to the rules but occasionally cast members can make magic happen for you. Depending upon exceptions to the written rules every year would make me very nervous and I wouldn't have wanted to rely on something like that regularly at all.

That is why it take s a lot of hard thought before deciding on multiple memberships and a lot of members will warn against it or caution it in every thread that is started that asks about it. There are plusses, like making it less likely that points expire, extra waitlists, etc. But rules like the transfer limit are the tradeoff. Most members will not want more than 1, though IMO 2 memberships is still very safe because you can transfer all of one membership into the other each year if needed and still functionally use it like one membership if you really wanted to. 3 to me is a no-go unless truly wanting to use them completely separately from any other points (like an Aulani, HHI, VB that you fully plan to use every year or something)

I do agree that they should probably avoid going back to the old booking rule. Forcing every member to log in every day to add a day would be very tedious. But there are much easier ways they could modify the system without having major effects on how normal members book.

If a member has multiple memberships, could they transfer between their own memberships before? If not, then I wish they would change that. If so, that would have helped me tremendously. One transfer in or out right now and not allowing members to transfer between their own contracts has not put a dent in commercial renting regardless.

I am going to add a fourth direct contract and retitle three of ours so we will just be left with two memberships and be able to just transfer all points into one if need be. I do want the four waitlists at least.

 

[Sandisw]

I personally am against them changing rules that will inevitably "punish" regular users. I am being greatly affected by the stupid one transfer in and out rule that is supposedly supposed to stop commercial renters, which it hasnt. People who cheat will always find a way.

Meanwhile, juggling three memberships and not wanting to sell points was unavoidable with my situation because they refused to transfer a few points for a second time. So now i was forced to rent and put more rentals out there. I wrote a letter to them about this. And you better believe if im being forced to rent to not lose points im going to try to choose highly sought out reservations too for more money. Because I never wanted to rent in the first place.

So now this rule change put me in a position to be a renter so i dont lose points because they wont transfer the points for me for my own personal use. Real effective.

I wouldnt want to have to wake up early and call every day to add on day by day to try to prevent commercial renting. Imagine international and others that have to wake up way earlier than 8 am. The commercial renters are going to be calling too. Its like with many programs there is always fraud and the solutions out there do punish regular people.

I do not want more rules of what I can and cannot do. Plans change and owners should be able to modify their reservations in peace, we pay a lot of money for these points to book within the window at our discretion. If this product is bogged down by a bunch of rules that prevent me even further from booking when i am not a commercial renter, but just someone whose plans change, I would probably seriously consider selling. The transfer rules have soured me to the product somewhat although not enough for me to be completely done. More rules would probably do it.


They need to just figure out who is commerical renting and start sending them letters to STOP.

The only thing is they didn’t change a rule for transfers. It’s always been one in or out for an owner.

When they allowed owners to have an exception between their own memberships, it was just that…an exception.

So, enticing the written rule for all actually made sense while at that same time had to impact some who were using it as a way to strip and flip.

In terms with changing rules to combat walking? It’s obvious that the board has not yet found a way they feel is worth a rules change.

I have been going on daily around 11:00 am and every resort has rooms of every size still there at 11 months, with the exception of one which is out of studios.

So, if they are doing the same thing, it’s possible this is what they meant last year when they said it’s not a common practice or the impact on overall bookings is small?

They have the info and data and all we have is that so far, they have chosen not to update the booking rules to limit modifications of dates, even if one is doing it for the purpose to f walking.

I am sure someone will ask at one of the meetings so by the 10th, we should at least get an updated statement from them.

 

[Girlstar30]

The only thing is they didn’t change a rule for transfers. It’s always been one in or out for an owner.

When they allowed owners to have an exception between their own memberships, it was just that…an exception.

So, enticing the written rule for all actually made sense while at that same time had to impact some who were using it as a way to strip and flip.

In terms with changing rules to combat walking? It’s obvious that the board has not yet found a way they feel is worth a rules change.

I have been going on daily around 11:00 am and every resort has rooms of every size still there at 11 months, with the exception of one which is out of studios.

So, if they are doing the same thing, it’s possible this is what they meant last year when they said it’s not a common practice or the impact on overall bookings is small?

They have the info and data and all we have is that so far, they have chosen not to update the booking rules to limit modifications of dates, even if one is doing it for the purpose to f walking.

I am sure someone will ask at one of the meetings so by the 10th, we should at least get an updated statement from them.

Are these meetings when they announce any rule changes? Why randomly make that transfer exception and then take it away? Im sure other people arent too happy with the transfer rules either, could this be amended in the official rules?

 

[Tatebeck]

If a member has multiple memberships, could they transfer between their own memberships before? If not, then I wish they would change that. If so, that would have helped me tremendously. One transfer in or out right now and not allowing members to transfer between their own contracts has not put a dent in commercial renting regardless.

I am going to add a fourth direct contract and retitle three of ours so we will just be left with two memberships and be able to just transfer all points into one if need be. I do want the four waitlists at least.

Members were able to transfer between their own membership just like they were doing any other transfers. The rules always allowed only 1 per year either way. Some cast members simply wouldn't count it against your 1 allowed transfer if you were transferring between your own memberships. Then they stopped that exception and started enforcing the 1 transfer rules more strictly.

In fact the added the part that allows banked and borrowed points to be transferred and that allows you to bank or borrow transferred points. So they actually made the rules more friendly for transfers overall, but just stopped offering exceptions to the 1 transfer part of the rule

 

[Sandisw]

True, but over time changes still have to be made to keep the product running smoothly.

You simply can't avoid changing anything forever just because no solution is 100% perfect. We would still be require to book by phone, every time and add one day at a time at the 11 month window if they didn't adjust the rules with the membership over time

Very true but when it comes to setting up new policy for commercial use, there is a lot that needs to be considered by the board that ensures it complies first with the law and then the POS.

I still believe that 2021 law, FL 718.111 may have an impact on what they can do, and when I pointed it out in relation to the implication by CMs that you could no longer rent to a stranger, they confirmed it wasn’t true.

Not saying they can’t get around that to make it different policy at some point, but to date, they have chosen not to update the policy or add additional policy to define it.

If they decide to do that, it will show up in updated documents in some way shape or form.

After the meetings, I suspect we will have new information to debate!

 

[Girlstar30]

Members were able to transfer between their own membership just like they were doing any other transfers. The rules always allowed only 1 per year either way. Some cast members simply wouldn't count it against your 1 allowed transfer if you were transferring between your own memberships. Then they stopped that exception and started enforcing the 1 transfer rules more strictly.

In fact the added the part that allows banked and borrowed points to be transferred and that allows you to bank or borrow transferred points. So they actually made the rules more friendly for transfers overall, but just stopped offering exceptions to the 1 transfer part of the rule

How long did the transfer exception last? They seem to think by taking it away it will somehow stop commercial renting which is a joke.

 

[Tatebeck]

How long did the transfer exception last? They seem to think by taking it away it will somehow stop commercial renting which is a joke.

There was no official rule change or exception. So it didn't "last" a specific amount of time. It was just a case by case basis where the cast members were being lenient and then stopped. At least for a couple years based on all the reports I saw when I was buying in

 

[Sandisw]

Are these meetings when they announce any rule changes? Why randomly make that transfer exception and then take it away? Im sure other people arent too happy with the transfer rules either, could this be amended in the official rules?

They updated the documents that show the rules and it was the same as always. One in or out. But included new rules for transferring banked points and being able to borrow points.

Having a CM give an exception doesn’t make it a new rule…it means they treated owners with multiple memberships with some pixie dust.

So, if you went in assuming that exception couldn’t go away, then you didn’t really have a clear understanding of that.

I go in at least twice a year and check the home resort rules and regulations to see if there are updates.

Typically, you will see them added end of year or in January since they have to file amendments with the new budgets.

IIRC, they started allowing owners to transfer more than once around 2020 in response to COVID and it continued for a few years.

It wasn’t published since it wasn’t a rule, and it was also case by case.

 

[Girlstar30]

There was no official rule change or exception. So it didn't "last" a specific amount of time. It was just a case by case basis where the castembers were being lenient and then stopped. At least for a couple years based on all the reports I saw when I was buying in

The inconsistency strikes again

 

[Girlstar30]

They updated the documents that show the rules and it was the same as always. One in or out. But included new rules for transferring banked points and being able to borrow points.

Having a CM give an exception doesn’t make it a new rule…it means they treated owners with multiple memberships with some pixie dust.

So, if you went in assuming that exception couldn’t go away, then you didn’t really have a clear understanding of that.

I go in at least twice a year and check the home resort rules and regulations to see if there are updates.

Typically, you will see them added end of year or in January since they have to file amendments with the new budgets.

IIRC, they started allowing owners to transfer more than once around 2020 in response to COVID and it continued for a few years.

It wasn’t published since it wasn’t a rule, and it was also case by case.

I went in coming to disboards because I didnt understand how the hell this worked Apparently I still dont Thank you all who helped

 

[Tatebeck]

The inconsistency strikes again

At least they are consistently inconsistent?

 

[Girlstar30]

At least they are consistently inconsistent?

Truth!

 

[AstroBlasters]

If only more of the overwhelming majority of experienced members, podcast hosts, and DVC informational sites would caution new buyers to not have multiple UYs while they are still figuring out the system…. then transfers between memberships wouldn't be necessary….

 

[Girlstar30]

When i wrote the letter to them about not being able to transfer more than once, borrowing/banking exceptions etc, I got a response saying that they couldn't change this because they have to follow timeshare laws.

I responded and told her that transferring has nothing to do with timeshare laws and they can change the rules if they wanted, they just want to make things difficult and have people lose points

Is it true that things like borrowing and banking being a final transaction and transferring rules are NECESSARY timeshare laws?

 

[AstroBlasters]

FWIW for the conversation, I’m still walking my Jan 2026 VDH 1bd reservation…. Only 2 more months to go with my new morning routine.. it does get a bit trickier as we start to go through the more expensive point season since I have to book less days and don’t have a mulligan if I forget to modify for a day…..