W. Va Hospitals Will Fire Unvaccinated Workers

[Carly_Roach]

I agree it's a slippery slope.

I hope that those who advocate mandated vaccines for health care workers are comfortable with having their children vaccinated by mandate in school, because that could well be next.

Here's what the ACLU has to say on the matter. I'd say it's all going to be a legal mess for a while.

Thank you, Pea-n-Me! I was able to quickly skim through that and was happy to see where the State of NY had to reverse it's mandatory vaccinations for health care workers. I hope the same will be true for this hospital, even though its a private institution (which I will address in a moment).

On the flip side, if this regulation is upheld and workers are forced to take a foreign body into their own bodies in order to keep their jobs, I hope that (God forbid) if there are any health concerns five or 10 years down the road that lead back to this particular vaccine, those people sue the pants off this particular private institution, it's Board of Directors wherever they are, bankrupt everyone, close the insitution and send those responsible for enacting this policy to jail. The long-term effects of the H1N1 vaccine have NEVER been tested and it's irresponsible and callous to force hospital workers to take it as guinea pigs under cover of "working with the public/in everyone's best interest".

Once people get familiar and comfortable with this kind of civil-rights trampling policy, who knows what else will be proposed in the future? How soon before we're all subject to having chips implanted in our foreheads (for the greater good of course) in order verify our identities?

 

[wvjules]

Thank you, Pea-n-Me! I was able to quickly skim through that and was happy to see where the State of NY had to reverse it's mandatory vaccinations for health care workers. I hope the same will be true for this hospital, even though its a private institution (which I will address in a moment).

On the flip side, if this regulation is upheld and workers are forced to take a foreign body into their own bodies in order to keep their jobs, I hope that (God forbid) if there are any health concerns five or 10 years down the road that lead back to this particular vaccine, those people sue the pants off this particular private institution, it's Board of Directors wherever they are, bankrupt everyone, close the insitution and send those responsible for enacting this policy to jail. The long-term effects of the H1N1 vaccine have NEVER been tested and it's irresponsible and callous to force hospital workers to take it as guinea pigs under cover of "working with the public/in everyone's best interest".
Once people get familiar and comfortable with this kind of civil-rights trampling policy, who knows what else will be proposed in the future? How soon before we're all subject to having chips implanted in our foreheads (for the greater good of course) in order verify our identities?

The article in the OP says "SEASONAL FLU".

 

[shrubber]

I understand the government stepping in to require employees take steps to prevent the spread of disease. I may not agree with it, but I understand it.
State health codes for instance. Requiring that employees wash their hands after using the toilet for example. Get it.
However, most if not all of those cases I can think of result in preventing disease,infection to an unassuming populace from an unassuming worker.
It seems that is hardly the case in a hospital now is it.
A Hospital is full of sick and infected people to begin with right?
And what doctor or nurse does not follow infection protocal nowindays not only to prevent others but themselves from getting sick?
Everything I have heard on the news and from the CDC says the best way to prevent infection from the flu is to wash your hands. Medical staff are not doing that already? Why force them to take a vaccine?
I refuse to believe that these hospital workers are being reckless with thier own health and therefor should be forced to be immunized.
Just does not make any sense.

 

[Carly_Roach]

The article in the OP says "SEASONAL FLU".

My apologies. The resulting articles I've read seemed to be heavy on the H1N1 virus which is probably why it got stuck in my head.

However, even with seasonal flu, there's still nothing to protect people from getting a "bad batch" or other things going wrong with the Q/A aspect of these vaccines. The main point is that people are forced to accept foreign bodies into their own body in order to keep a job. Fifty years ago, that kind of behavior was termed Communist and was seen as Anti-American.

In fifty years people have been so socially engineered that if someone even hints at the word "safety", everyone's on the bandwagon and screaming for others to "do what's right so I don't get sick".

Unfortunately, when a policy comes around that infringes on these people's particular rights, there won't be anyone left to join them in some march on Washington to protest it. We'll all be fastened into our carseats with our helmets and elbow pads on, watching the right TV show, vaccinated into a stupor, and sucking our thumbs until it's time for the next scheduled meal of non-toxic, no-salt, no-fat, gelatinous mush that serves to keep us alive. Sucked through a straw, of course.


Boy, I sure am on a rant today, aren't I? Must be PMS.

 

[wdwfan16]

For a hospital where people are ill and have less healthy immune system I think it should be manditory. How would you like to find out Grandma went to due to a fall and died from catching the Flu from a sick caretaker?

 

[okeydokey]

I don't have a problem with it. Some jobs have requirements that others do not due to the nature of the job. Some require background checks, some require financial disclosures. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

 

[shrubber]

For a hospital where people are ill and have less healthy immune system I think it should be manditory. How would you like to find out Grandma went to due to a fall and died from catching the Flu from a sick caretaker?

Well, there are vaccines for staph infections, menengitis, yellow fever ect.
We don't demand medical workers get vaccinated for all of these do we?

Of all people, I excpect medical workers to be the most diligent when it comes to protecting themselves and others. It makes very little sense to require them to.

 

[wdwfan16]

Well, there are vaccines for staph infections, menengitis, yellow fever ect.
We don't demand medical workers get vaccinated for all of these do we?

Of all people, I excpect medical workers to be the most diligent when it comes to protecting themselves and others. It makes very little sense to require them to.

The seasonal flu kills 30K+ people per year. It hits the ill and elderly the hardest. There is a vaccine that is readily available. It should be required.

How many people in the US die of yellow fever each year. How many actually get i?

 

[shrubber]

The seasonal flu kills 30K+ people per year. It hits the ill and elderly the hardest. There is a vaccine that is readily available. It should be required.

How many people in the US die of yellow fever each year. How many actually get i?

Well, then they should get the vaccine then. To require people with whom they may contact to get a vaccine is absurd.
I may come in contact with someone with TB at WalMart. Should WalMart employees all get TB vaccines? Almost 2 million people die each year from TB.

 

[Va-bear]

I have no problem with it.

If people don't want the vaccine, they are free to find new jobs.

I agree - and preferably a new job where you don't work with a vulnerable/sensitive population.

 

[hpsauce]

Well, there are vaccines for staph infections, menengitis, yellow fever ect.
We don't demand medical workers get vaccinated for all of these do we?

Of all people, I excpect medical workers to be the most diligent when it comes to protecting themselves and others. It makes very little sense to require them to.

The staph vaccine is experimental.

Some states require health care workers to be vaccinated against hepatits, chicken pox, pneumonia, measles, mumps, and/or rubella, in addition to seasonal influenza.

The CDC website has a tool which compares state immunization laws for health care workers.

 

[wdwfan16]

Well, then they should get the vaccine then. To require people with whom they may contact to get a vaccine is absurd.
I may come in contact with someone with TB at WalMart. Should WalMart employees all get TB vaccines? Almost 2 million people die each year from TB.

Maybe they were too sick to get the shot but contracting it could be fatal.

Hospitals and Wal Mart are comparing apples to oranges. One you can chose to stay away from the other you go to save your life or fix a problem.

You do know that 2 million people do not die in the US from TB.

 

[hpsauce]

Well, then they should get the vaccine then. To require people with whom they may contact to get a vaccine is absurd.
I may come in contact with someone with TB at WalMart. Should WalMart employees all get TB vaccines? Almost 2 million people die each year from TB.

There are more sick people at the hospital than there are at Walmart. There are also more immunocompromised people at the hospital than there are at Walmart. The risk of contact and of contracting an illness is therefore much higher at the hospital.

In any event, the TB vaccine is not reliable in preventing TB in adults.

 

[justhat]

My husband is a physician and was essentially required to get vaccinated for the flu. But it's not that odd as he was required to get many vaccines before starting his job, and even medical school actually.

With the flu, I say "essentially" required in that he would not have been fired had he not been vaccinated, but he was not allowed days off due to the flu. So if he weren't vaccinated, caught the flu, then had to stay home (which would have been required), the time off would have come from his pre-alloted vacation time. And his vacation weeks are preset a year in advance, so any plans made would have had to be cancelled at our own expense had he missed days for the flu. They don't get sick days at all, but if you are sick and need to take a day or two over the course of the year that has always been approved and vacation time not touched. This would not have been the case with the flu this year.

Additionally, he would not have been allowed into two hospitals he had to rotate through had he not been vaccinated. Those are Children's National Medical Center (which required all rotating physicians to provide proof of flu vaccination to start their rotation) and another hospital if you were doing a cardiac rotation (it's a big heart hospital, so that would really be the only reason you were working there).

The big reason for 'requiring' vaccines is that many physicians who agree with vaccinations, recommend them to patients, etc., simply forget to get their own. My husband is one of those people. They had so many clinics at his hospital that he would completely forget about and ended up getting his vaccine long after the kids and I got ours.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't have a problem with it. Some jobs have requirements that others do not due to the nature of the job. Some require background checks, some require financial disclosures. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Last I checked, you can't become ill, disabled or die from background checks and financial disclosures. (Well, most of us anyway. )

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

 

[shrubber]

Well, not only do they want mandatory vaccines for medical workers, but yourself as well.
Don't care to have a vaccine? Tough.
http://farmwars.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Pennsylvania-House-Bill-492.pdf

House bill 492 proposes emergency powers to “compel a person to submit to a physical examination or testing, or both, as necessary to diagnose or treat the person.”
This is to be done “without resort to judicial or quasi-judicial authority.” This legislation will also require that “any physician or other health care provider to perform the medical examination or testing, or both” under penalty of law.

In addition, “the public health authority may, for such period as the state of public health emergency exists, compel a person to be vaccinated or treated, or both, for an infectious disease.”
In other words, the rights of the patient and physician can be removed solely because a government public health authority believes a health emergency is imminent.

 

[SydSim]

I don't have a problem with it. Some jobs have requirements that others do not due to the nature of the job. Some require background checks, some require financial disclosures. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I agree, but these are required before taking the position. So, you don't have to accept a job if you don't agree with those stipulations. Mandating the vaccine is happening after people have been hired and are working already.

 

[zigzagzerr]

I agree, but these are required before taking the position. So, you don't have to accept a job if you don't agree with those stipulations. Mandating the vaccine is happening after people have been hired and are working already.

I work for a healthcare company and seasonal flu vaccination was mandatory this year -- the pres of our company has already announced that if you don't get it by the deadline, you will not have a job.

There were exceptions made for allergies and religious reasons. Also, if you were afraid of needles, you could take the FluMist (inhaled) rather than the injection.

I've worked in healthcare for a long time, and I've always taken the flu shot because it seemed like a good idea, especially if you had contact with patients. That way, you don't infect them, they don't infect you.

I'm still on the fence about whether I agree with making it mandatory.

 

[shrubber]

Only 13% of hospital nurses got the seasonal flu vaccine last year.
This was a catastrophe? You would think we'd still be hauling bodies to the morgue from all the people who caught the flu from hospital workers!

This is not a health emergency.
http://www.nursingtimes.net/whats-new-in-nursing/swine-flu/dh-director-of-immunisation-tells-nurses-they-have-a-duty-to-have-swine-flu-jab/5005221.article

 

[sbell111]

I can understand your feelings. In the area that I work, and I only work part-time, I feel that my exposure is about the same as when I'm out and about in real life - at stores, church, etc. Because I'm a healthy young woman, my risk, although present, is extremely small for severe complications from the flu. Personally, I don't feel paranoid, just that if I don't need to take something, then I'd rather not Highly recommending to be vaccinated, I could see. Mandating, well, I'm just not comfortable with that.

The problem is that these healthy young people interact with people with immune systems that are not as robust. Risking giving these people the flu is a risk better avoided.

My problem is with the "changing" of the rules. These people weren't hired under those rules, so there should be a grandfather clause or something.

Last week, I got an email which explained that our mileage reimbursement rates were being reduced for the second time in a year. I can either accept that change or find a new job. My mileage reimbursement is not grandfathered to when I started my job.

I don't get flu shots myself, and if I had to get one or lose my job, after 22 years there, I'd go crazy. That's a lot of benefits to lose for that! I am so phobic about needles, the last one I had, I was lying down, passed out anyways, and was sick for 3 days. That's 3 days out of work all because I got a tetanus shot! I'm not allergic, just totally phobic!

You should therefore avoid the shot. Luckily, needles are not required to get a flu vaccine.

Thank you, Pea-n-Me! I was able to quickly skim through that and was happy to see where the State of NY had to reverse it's mandatory vaccinations for health care workers. I hope the same will be true for this hospital, even though its a private institution (which I will address in a moment).

On the flip side, if this regulation is upheld and workers are forced to take a foreign body into their own bodies in order to keep their jobs, I hope that (God forbid) if there are any health concerns five or 10 years down the road that lead back to this particular vaccine, those people sue the pants off this particular private institution, it's Board of Directors wherever they are, bankrupt everyone, close the insitution and send those responsible for enacting this policy to jail. The long-term effects of the H1N1 vaccine have NEVER been tested and it's irresponsible and callous to force hospital workers to take it as guinea pigs under cover of "working with the public/in everyone's best interest".

Huh? There has been an H1N1 component to the seasonal flu vaccine for as long as I can remember. It isn't causing any real 'health concerns' and has been around long enough to be considered 'ong-term'

Once people get familiar and comfortable with this kind of civil-rights trampling policy, who knows what else will be proposed in the future? How soon before we're all subject to having chips implanted in our foreheads (for the greater good of course) in order verify our identities?

??? Please explain which of your civil rights this decision by a private employer is violating.

I understand the government stepping in to require employees take steps to prevent the spread of disease. I may not agree with it, but I understand it.
State health codes for instance. Requiring that employees wash their hands after using the toilet for example. Get it.
However, most if not all of those cases I can think of result in preventing disease,infection to an unassuming populace from an unassuming worker.
It seems that is hardly the case in a hospital now is it.

It seems that this is exactly that case.

A Hospital is full of sick and infected people to begin with right?
And what doctor or nurse does not follow infection protocal nowindays not only to prevent others but themselves from getting sick?
Everything I have heard on the news and from the CDC says the best way to prevent infection from the flu is to wash your hands. Medical staff are not doing that already? Why force them to take a vaccine?

You wash your hands because you touch stuff that may be infected. You then touch your mouth, nose, and eyes and get yourself infected. By requiring the medical staff to be vaccinated, fewer of them will get the flu and spread the germs to all manner of items that unvaccinated patients then touch.

I refuse to believe that these hospital workers are being reckless with thier own health and therefor should be forced to be immunized.
Just does not make any sense.[/QUOTE]By not getting vaccinated, they are being reckless with other people's health. That's why the requirement makes sense.

My apologies. The resulting articles I've read seemed to be heavy on the H1N1 virus which is probably why it got stuck in my head.

However, even with seasonal flu, there's still nothing to protect people from getting a "bad batch" or other things going wrong with the Q/A aspect of these vaccines.

'Bad batches' generally mean that the vaccine is ineffective, not that it causes harm in and of itself.

The main point is that people are forced to accept foreign bodies into their own body in order to keep a job. Fifty years ago, that kind of behavior was termed Communist and was seen as Anti-American.

Fifty years ago, most anything that those on power didn't agree with was labelled 'Communist'. Very little has changed, apparently.

In fifty years people have been so socially engineered that if someone even hints at the word "safety", everyone's on the bandwagon and screaming for others to "do what's right so I don't get sick".

Unfortunately, when a policy comes around that infringes on these people's particular rights, there won't be anyone left to join them in some march on Washington to protest it. We'll all be fastened into our carseats with our helmets and elbow pads on, watching the right TV show, vaccinated into a stupor, and sucking our thumbs until it's time for the next scheduled meal of non-toxic, no-salt, no-fat, gelatinous mush that serves to keep us alive. Sucked through a straw, of course.

Boy, I sure am on a rant today, aren't I? Must be PMS.

Again, no one's rights are being trampled by a hospital requiring it's employees to be vaccinated.

That being said, there is plenty of historical precedent for the government requiring vaccinations.

Well, not only do they want mandatory vaccines for medical workers, but yourself as well.
Don't care to have a vaccine? Tough.
http://farmwars.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Pennsylvania-House-Bill-492.pdf

House bill 492 proposes emergency powers to “compel a person to submit to a physical examination or testing, or both, as necessary to diagnose or treat the person.”
This is to be done “without resort to judicial or quasi-judicial authority.” This legislation will also require that “any physician or other health care provider to perform the medical examination or testing, or both” under penalty of law.

In addition, “the public health authority may, for such period as the state of public health emergency exists, compel a person to be vaccinated or treated, or both, for an infectious disease.”
In other words, the rights of the patient and physician can be removed solely because a government public health authority believes a health emergency is imminent.

I'm pretty sure that discussing this proposed bill from the Pennsylvania legislature would violate this board's ban on political discussion. Suffice it to say that if it were to be made law, it would no doubt be challenged in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court and possibly the US Supreme Court. Which may either uphold it or strike it down.