Vent about DH's meal spending...LONG

[ksumn1]

DH works out of town and for the last few weeks he's been running our bank account very close to a 0 balance. He gets a per diem check every week for $80. He puts $20 in gas in the car and has $60 to spend on food form Monday morning to Thursday evening. He has a minifridge in the hotel room, a George Foreman grill,an numerous coolers he could take to keep additional food in (fee ice machine at hotel) He takes a meal with him for at least one night, usually 2. I fix extra batches on Sunday of chili, jambalaya, soup etc and he takes some with him. He stops at Wal Mart and buys sandwich meat, bread, canned drinks etc. Yet he still eats Jack's for breakfast 3 times a week, goes by the gas station at least 6 times for candy bars, energy drinks, etc, and eats out at least one night a week using the debit card.

I work part time, go to school full time and between the house and everything else, I don't have time to check the bank statement every single night. He won't check it when he's home on Friday all day while I'm at work, Saurday if I don't work we have stuff to do and it never fails that Saturday afternoon as I log onto the bank system, he pulls out a wad of reciepts for the week.

Well, I asked him 2 days ago did he need $$ or was he OK because I had to pay some bills. Nope, he's fine. So I tell him IF you do, get some out of the ATM, because there's gonna be $30 in the bank Mon and Tues until check posts on Wednesday. No problem, he says. So tonight I check the bank statement and we're -$200 !!! He went by the Texaco 4 times in 2 days, had dinner at a Mexican restaurant, Jack's AND paid the subscription fee (pay per use) on some game he plays online. We have NSF fees of $140 for 3 transactions. That $2.60 cost us $39!!! (Normally, we have a higher balance but with my hours at work cut at work due to school schedule, it's getting tighter and tighter every week)

I'm so mad I don't know what to do. It's not really the $$, it's that he won't take the $$ out BEFORE he goes out of town and stop when he runs out. He keeps using the debit card even when I tell him DON'T. Had I known he need extra cash, I would have paid less on the bills, since I was overpaying a bit anyway.

He's a great guy and works hard. He says all the time I just want to be able to go out to eat or grab a drink when I want it. Fine, but he doesn't seem to get that those little trips to the gas station and dinner twice a week add up. Especially when he brings the leftovers home, uneaten, and have to be thrown out since he didn't put them in a cooler and left them sitting out in his truck all day. I just wanted to vent. Thanks for letting me. I love my DH, hard worker, great father, good guy, usually very level headed except when it comes to his spending habits about food. Of course, he has food issues anyway (eats waaaay too much which is a BIG part of the problem and won't do anything about it) so I really don't know what to do, how to approach it, or how to fix it. Especially since I've tried to handle it by suggesting he take cash every week to keep it under control. Any ideas??

 

[stitchlovestink]

I feel your pain. DH does not even want a debit card for that exact reason. It really is hard to have a person using the card that is not balancing the check book it is coming out of. My suggestion would be to have him use a reloadable prepaid visa card. It might be a smidge more costly (not sure about the fees to load the card) but it would certainly be cheaper than the overdraft fees. And also when it's gone for that trip, it's gone until the next week. Kinda like an actual allowance. The other option IMO would be to give him a credit card that only he uses. Then when the bill comes, have him look at the statement to see where all of this money is going. Again, cheaper than overdraft fees, and maybe it will help him to see his spending habits. I'm sure others are going to disagree w/ the credit card. but I was coming from the angle that maybe if he sees how much it really adds up over a month, it'll make more of an impression on him and he'll decide to curb the spending. If it doesn't change his spending habits w/in a month or two, certainly I would repossess the card. HTH
Best of Luck getting this straightened out.

 

[ksumn1]

The prepaid via or cc might not be a bad idea. He always stops at Walmart to get his groceries so maybe it would be a good idea to put some extra $$ on a Wal Mart card. I feel kinda petty complaining about this when overall it's all OK it's more of an annoyance. Well, and he's overeating when he's out of town and since I'm trying to eat better (me and DD's) it frustrates me when he eats sooo much and then gets mad when I say something. (After he rmarks how full he is, he ate too much etc) I want him to be healthy and he needs to lose some weight. So do I, but I'm on a weight loss and exercise plan and I've lost over 30 pounds. It's to the point where it's becoming a bigger issue with me because he acts like it's no big deal when it is.

How do you tell someone they need to lose weight after they've loved you uncritically and unconditionally through thick, thicker and thin? And that the money is a major issue but the snacks and meals are the bigger issue? I mean if I saw that every receipt was for a 6" turkey sandwich with a bottle of water from Subway, I wouldn't gripe as much. But when I see it's for an energy drink full of sugar, a bag of Funions, and a white chocolate Reeses cup (his fave snack) or a large coke 2 BEC biscuits, hashrounds AND a cinnamon roll from Jack's. it just burns me up. He has high blood pressure, which he won't take his medicine for in fact hasn't been to the doctor for in over a year, snores horribly, falls asleep at the drop of a hat and WON'T do anything about it. You know, I didn't realize how upset I was until I started typing this. I really need to talk to DH Thursday night about this whole issue. The money AND food thing because I'm obviously having problems dealing with this.

 

[NotUrsula]

Get him a pre-paid Visa gift card. You can add money to it online if he gets short (presuming that there is money available to add). A few times of having it declined will teach him not to spend what he doesn't really have.

He should not be carrying a debit card on a bank account that is routinely drawn down to zero. (No one should; way too easy to overdraw it.) I personally have a rule that I don't carry debit cards for any account that is allowed to dip below $500 at any time; when you get that close to the wire it is best to make the withdrawal process a bit more complicated so as to avoid overdrafts.

As to the fast food; you can't stop it. He's an adult, and he will eat what he pleases, especially if he is alone out of town; the food is a comfort issue. If you know he won't eat the things you send, then stop sending them (that waste is food that you could be eating, which would save some money on what you use while he is out of town.) Make sure that you keep his insurance current, because unfortunately the odds are that you are going to need it, if he has a manual-labor job and a heart condition.

 

[xmlguy]

An ATM/Debit card isn't real money. That's part of the problem. He needs to leave the card at home, or shred it. He should work on a cash basis. It hurts more when the wallet is empty. An empty checking account is intangible. When you pay out real greenbacks for stuff, it is real money.

You may be able to help with a run to Costco to buy those convenience store items at a fraction of the price, dealing with the health issue separately from the cost for now.

If your combined income is reduced, what percentage of it is tied up in fixed monthly expenses? If the answer is greater than 60%, then you've got a more serious problem than these food expenses, that probably only add up to a tiny percent of the income, right?

I just noticed in your sig your upcoming 10 aniv. trip with "free dining". There is no such thing as free dining at WDW. It's all an illusion. You are paying for that food in other ways, primarily through overpriced lodging and extremely overpriced food, of which you still have to pay huge tips for TS. At WDW, there truly is no free lunch. Perhaps your DH would rather have a little more room in his weekly budget that he has to deal with on a daily basis, making it worthwhile to scale back the vacation plans a bit for a more budget minded approach - where you can still have a ton of fun with less money pressure. Just a thought - and I'm not trying to mess up your plans. One budget approach is to reduce your daily cost, allowing you to spend as much or more on truly special places at WDW. It's more of a shift in spending from less special things to more special things, with some signficant savings overall on things that might not matter so much to both of you, with the benefit of perhaps doing some things that you might not otherwise do, like one of the special guided behind-the-scenes tour, or the chef's table at V&As.

 

[Girldreamer02]

I agree with the prepaid card idea, but I also wanted to add that if he falls asleep at the drop of a hat and snores horribly you might want to consider talking to him about going to the dr and having a sleep study done. Dh did last summer and it turns out he had horrible sleep apnea (he is a bigger guy as well...minus the blood pressure issues.) He stopped breathing an insane amount of times each hour he slept and the even scarier thing is that sometimes I'd hear him stop breathing so I'd lose sleep to stay awake so I could hit him when I heard him stop breathing b/c I was scared to death something would happen to him. He has a c pap mask now and dosen't fall asleep at the drop of a hat anymore. He actually feels refreshed when he wakes up and I can sleep b/c i'm not worried about him stop breathing. The mask is quiet too...no louder than the fan that we always run anyways. Just a consideration. I am by no means a doctor, but its always good to be checked out! I hope your talk helps and I wish you luck! Good for you for addressing the issues at hand.

 

[Sir.Walks-a-Lot]

A very minor point, but be sure to go to your bank and ask if they can do anything about the NSF fees. Three in a week will almost always be reduced to just one....well, until banks started failing in the past year. Still worth a shot though.

Tell him he can get his Funions and round chocolate thing once a week -if- he works out twice a week. Still not great, but a whole world better than the current lifestyle.


And you're mad because he's being totally selfish. Living in that manner is not fair to you and you are the one suffering because of his enjoyment. Ask him if having his Funions are worth it. Tell him every time he buys junk food at a gas station that he has to think about what you are dealing with first. Seriously, he has to stop in the store and think about you before touching the candy.

Truthfully though, the fact that he refuses to take his blood pressure medicine speaks to a deeper problem that everything else may be stemming from. If you can't get a marked change in his behavior after confronting him this week, then try to get him to talk to a counselor (unlikely). When that fails, tell his doctor everything...his doctor can't talk to you about him, but he will listen to everything you have to say (well, a decent doctor will). Hopefully the doctor, as an authority figure, will be able to get his attention.

 

[xmlguy]

After a little research, I think that $80 per diem rate for four days is completely out of whack for your area. First of all, the per diem is for food and incidentals, not mileage or gas. If he's doing business mileage, that should be a separate reimbursed business expense and not taken out of the per diem. The standard Georgia per diem rate for government employees is $136.50 for four days, assuming the 75% of the daily rate for the first and last days. For Atlanta, Savannah, and other areas, it's higher at $171.50.

http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/co...=GSA_BASIC&contentId=17943&queryState=Georgia

So basically, your DH is trying to survive on 1/2 to 2/3rds below the government per diem, which isn't exactly a generous allotment.

The whole point of a per diem is to reimburse an employee for reasonable expenses without the burden of having to keep all the receipts (for the employer and employee), not to rip off the employee by imposing an reimbursement that is unreasonable and below the normal cost of meals at typical restaurants in the area (excluding fine dining, of course). I think your DH is being ripped off and it's completely unfair of the company to expect him to spend well below the norm for meals. He should be reimbursed at $0.55/mile too, which is probably quite a bit more than the $20/week he spends on fuel. If he gets 20mpg, at $2.50/gal, the mileage rate would total $88. So I calculate that he should be getting $224.50-$260.50, not $80. I think your DH is being ripped off on expenses. This shouldn't even be part of your household budget. These are business expenses. If he wasn't traveling for business, then he could eat much cheaper at home. It's unfair to expect his expenses when traveling to be as cheap as when home.

Even though private companies are not required to use IRS/GSA/State per diem rates, there's something wrong with a rate so far below reasonable expenses of eating at value restaurants. He shouldn't be forced to prepare his meals merely to survive while he's away from home. If he wants to save money by spending less than allotted for a reasonable per diem that's one thing, but getting only $15/day to spend on 3 meals is absurd (after fuel).

 

[NeedaVacation03]

I could have written your post myself about 8 years ago. I dont know what you can do about his eating habits, but the other medical issues due need to be addressed. He needs to have a complete physical to address the sleeping issue, the high blood pressure, and any other needs. I would start with that.
It does sound like a c-pap machine maybe in order here. It makes a world of difference in his life, if he needs it.
The money issue is affecting the whole family. You should not have to stress about his spending everyday he is gone. I would put a stop to the atm/debit card. I agree with the prepaid visa. I had to stop my husband with the debit card 8 yrs ago and we made a lot of money changes. Now he uses it only for the amount he knows we have. It takes time to change a habit, but he can not continue to act so selfish.
My Dh's company does not pay the national average for per diem either, but the value of the job is worth not complaining about it. He would have to decide if he wanted to argue that with the company. If he cant get it changed then the reality is that he has to live with what the company gives plus the additional you can afford.
People will not change the way they eat just because other people complain about it. He has to change his diet because he wants to do it. You should focus on the money issue and tell him that his health concerns you. You love him and worry about him, but the stress of the money and the checkbook is not healthy for you either.
Good luck. I have lived this, so I know it can get better if both people work together.

 

[KirstenB]

After a little research, I think that $80 per diem rate for four days is completely out of whack for your area. First of all, the per diem is for food and incidentals, not mileage or gas. If he's doing business mileage, that should be a separate reimbursed business expense and not taken out of the per diem. The standard Georgia per diem rate for government employees is $136.50 for four days, assuming the 75% of the daily rate for the first and last days. For Atlanta, Savannah, and other areas, it's higher at $171.50.

http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/co...=GSA_BASIC&contentId=17943&queryState=Georgia

So basically, your DH is trying to survive on 1/2 to 2/3rds below the government per diem, which isn't exactly a generous allotment.

The whole point of a per diem is to reimburse an employee for reasonable expenses without the burden of having to keep all the receipts (for the employer and employee), not to rip off the employee by imposing an reimbursement that is unreasonable and below the normal cost of meals at typical restaurants in the area (excluding fine dining, of course). I think your DH is being ripped off and it's completely unfair of the company to expect him to spend well below the norm for meals. He should be reimbursed at $0.55/mile too, which is probably quite a bit more than the $20/week he spends on fuel. If he gets 20mpg, at $2.50/gal, the mileage rate would total $88. So I calculate that he should be getting $224.50-$260.50, not $80. I think your DH is being ripped off on expenses. This shouldn't even be part of your household budget. These are business expenses. If he wasn't traveling for business, then he could eat much cheaper at home. It's unfair to expect his expenses when traveling to be as cheap as when home.

Even though private companies are not required to use IRS/GSA/State per diem rates, there's something wrong with a rate so far below reasonable expenses of eating at value restaurants. He shouldn't be forced to prepare his meals merely to survive while he's away from home. If he wants to save money by spending less than allotted for a reasonable per diem that's one thing, but getting only $15/day to spend on 3 meals is absurd (after fuel).

This is what I was thinking. 15 yrs ago I got $20 per day for per diem. You were supposed to use that for food. I'd buy a bunch of breakfast bars, so I'd have a bit more leeway for lunch and dinner. Gas would have been a separate category.

OP, I feel for you with the other health-related issues. My dh doesn't always take the best care of himself either.

 

[xmlguy]

Notice that the healthier options often cost more, and the junk is cheapest? Squeezing the budget doesn't make it easier to eat healthier, it makes it harder. Not all fast food is bad. The Subway veggie delight or turkey breast with no cheese/mayo/oil isn't so bad, and in this case, it's cheaper. Going through all the nutritional guides and menus of the options can help to build a list of the healthier choices at value prices, yet still convenient and easy.

 

[maggiew]

Others have given good advice. I just wanted to add that if your DH's company pays for his lodging while he is gone, maybe he could stay in a place that offers breakfast with the room rate to stretch the budget. Some even have manager's receptions at night with snacks. This is what my friend does who travels for business.

I agree that his per diem is too low!

Maggie

 

[ksumn1]

I really thank ya'll for all the suggestions and advice. I agree that his perdiem amount is low but it it what it is. The company pays him $2o per nigh (Sunday-Wednesday) that he's away from home. Lodging is paid but they leave very early in the am (aroung 6:15) before the free continental breakfast is put out.

He came in early this afternoon and we had a serious talk after a little "alone" time with both girls out of the house. Not to give TMI but he was winded and out of breath and I told him that if he was in better shape we could be a little more ummm adventurous. That I had noticed he's getting out of shape and that I was worried about him. That I enjoyed being thinner (I've lost 40 pounds in the last year), having more energy and sexier. And I really wish he would get on board and do this WITH me. I told him that it would be so much easier if I knew he was really trying to work out, lose weight, and be more healthy ALL the time not just when I "make" him. I told him I feel like his Mom, not his wife, alot. The money issue, the food stuff, having to nag him about dentist and doctors appointments and taking his medicine. I told him he needs to have a full physical workup (including the sleep issues) before he starts any diet or exercise plan. I told him I was scared he would have a heart attack because of all these issues and I would be all alone. His grandmother died of a stroke (after being given blood thinners during a heart attack) and his uncle just had a major heart attack at 45. He KNOWS he's at a higher risk and I don't want to explain to his DD's why Daddy didn't take care of himself and died.

I emphasized the health issues but we talked about the $$ ones too. He was really upset but I think because I wasn't too confrotational, angry and griping he actually listened and didn't get too defensive. He hemmed and hawed and tried to give excuses (no time, not enough $$, etc). I told him I knew it was hard, and was going to BE hard but he needed to sit down, take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask himself if he was happy the way he is. I He finally admitted he wasn't but that we didn't have the money now for all the dr's visits and tests. I told him WDW could wait, HE was the most important thing to me (beside my DD's) and besides the $$ was there for him to go. His Mom and I had a talk about all this a few weeks ago and she gave me a check (undated) that would cover it all, from $$ that she put back in savings from selling some land that she owned a few years ago that was DH's Dads. She gave us most of it at the time to pay off our house but put some of it back (in secret) "just in case" She's been worried about him too and has tried to talk to him but he's brushed her off.

We both agree that we need to sit down together and redo our budget. Lay it all out and look at everything. Gas, groceries, bills, miscellaneous and see what we need to adjust. We are running the bank account too close and not saving enough. He finally admitted that he wants to change, but just doesn't see HOW he can. I told him he just has to want it bad enough. Not just for me and the girls but for HIM. One step at a time. Day by day. So we have alot to talk about tonight after DD goes to bed.

I can't say enough how much it means that ya'll would take the time to listen to me and try to help. All the input has been great. I've been worried since I 1st posted because I knew the whole conversation would either go really well or end very badly and I was scared that it wouldn't be good. This kind of situation can cause alot of hurt feelings but I was to the point that I had to, no, needed to say how I felt. It's been building for awhile and I guess the straw finally broke the camel's back. I'll update after we talk tonight but so far, so good........

 

[ksumn1]

Oh, just to show that I enjoy irony.....I don't guess I ever said where I work Um, I work part time at Wendy's.I seriuosly eat a baked potato(occasionally) and a grilled chicken salad every single day that I work or I TAKE leftovers from home to work....to a restaurant

So I definately understand the whole convenience issue and how easy it is to eat crappy food. So am I part of the problem or the solution as an emplyee of a fast food restaurant???

Just thought fellow DISer's could appreciate the irony...

 

[Sandy321]

or you can look at Jon and Kate + 8 - they make $75,000 per episode (41 episodes last year, 40 eps this year!) and she reportedly gives Jon a budget of $5 per day!!!

see, life is complicated!!

 

[Cheshire Figment]

If he is only getting $80 per week to cover meals and gas he is being robbed by his employer.

The current Federal Per Diem Rates are a minimum of $70 for lodging and a minimum of $39 per day for food. Within Georgia the rates for lodging (depending on locality and time of year) vary between $77 and $149 and for meals vary between $39 and $49 per day.

And the IRS Standard Mileage Rate is currently 55¢ per mile.

If his reimbursements are less than this amoiunt, and you itemize deductions on your Income Tax Return, you need to include Form 2106 and claim the excess travel expenses.

Go to www.irs.gov and get the instructions for Form 2106 and also Publication 463.

Mike (CPA Retired)

 

[Chicago526]

If this were my DH, it wouldn't be safe for him to come home.

Cash. Figure out what he needs (I agree, $80 isn't much even if he starts eating better, and I'll hop on that soapbox in just a minute...) and give it to him in cash. He doesn't like it? Tough <bleep>, he just prooved he can't be responsible with money. Act like a child, get treated like one. You told him what was left in the account and he blew you off. That's not just irresponsible it's disrespectful.

As for what he's eating. Don't tackle it from a weight issue, tackle it from a you are going to DIE if you don't start eating better issue.

My DH ate just like this long before I met him. He also worked 24-48 hours straight before crashing to sleep to 12 hours just to get up and do it again, and traveled practically non-stop both nationally and internationally for years. He's now type 2 diabetic and insulin dependant because he basicly blew up his pancreas. Your DH is headed for diabeties, a stroke, a heart attack, or a combo platter of all three if he doesn't change his tune, and I mean right now.

Jeez, I'm mad just thinking about all this, and it isn't even happening to me!

ETA: OP, I didn't see your update. I'm glad you had a talk and that he seemed open to making changes. You really need to stay on top of him though, because from your post he didn't sound like he was to thrilled with the idea. Good luck to both of you!

 

[TnTWalter]

Sounds like he's hearing you which is great.

Right now Dave Ramsey has all books & cds for $10. That would be nice for him to listen to on his drive. It might 'click'???

Best of luck. Congratulations on your weight loss and I hope your DH follows your lead for his health.

 

[CLR4321]

I would make a strict budget that he needs to follow. Basically give him an allowance. If he is being that irresponsible and on top of that you have kids....I would have knocked some sense into that man. I wouldn't put up with it. He clearly has a spending problem that needs to be addressed. It's not just women with shopping addictions! I would put the foot down big time, especially with that pile of NSF fees! That is ridiculous! I hope you get things worked out soon. Good luck!

I didnt check for updates in threads below the OP! I am glad to hear that you had some success with talking to your DH. Good luck with working with him to change his habits!

 

[SandrA9810]

I'd say go with gift cards. you can get the college kid's gift card at wal-mart. Where it's two cards with the same number, so parents can refill it, and kids can spend it. And since wal-mart has a gas station, he'll always be able to get home.

But put enough on a gf for places like Subway or sweet tomato or there was this really good place out in texas and I don't know if it exsist elsewhere but it was called souper salad. It had a huge buffet of soups/salads/baked potatoes. And if he'd like to eat out, go with cracker barrell or some place that you know has plenty of good things on the menu where he's not tempted by giant steaks or huge burritoes. And put enough on there for one night out.

And well you should get him started on a cereal diet. Where he eats at least one bowl every morning, and if he needs a late night snack. It's quick and easy, and much healthier for him than most snacks. Even the sugary of the sweetests.

And if he needs his caffine punch every day. Buy him one of the large mugs at Race Trac. They sell for like 5 bucks, but you usually get five free refills with it. It's no more than a buck to fill it and almost any gas station with let you fill it, whether it's thier mug or not. I go to the hess stations, race trac, 7/11 and mobil with no problems. And those cups are well insulated that they can keep a drink cold for hours.
I usually get a lot of comments when i carry around my cup, usually on the size of it. But for a buck i could have a 20oz bottle of pepsi or like 44oz of a fountain drink that will stay much colder than 20 minutes outside the fridge. And unless I'm on a road trip and stuck in the car, I usually don't finish them in a day. Which is ok, because i usually leave bottles half full because they get too warm for my liking.