Vaccinations

[meandtheguys2]

If you're asking "Is mercury poisoning a known cause of autism?" The answer is, no.

So, would that by nature exclude lead? I'm thinking of a friend's son who had sypmptoms resembling aspergers and tourettes, who was later diagnosed with lead. Since the lead was dealt with, almost everything else has stabilized.

And thank you for the polite answer. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[Geoff_M]

So, would that by nature exclude lead? I'm thinking of a friend's son who had sypmptoms resembling aspergers and tourettes, who was later diagnosed with lead. Since the lead was dealt with, almost everything else has stabilized.

And thank you for the polite answer. It is greatly appreciated.

No problem. What others may say in rebuttal to me is that the neurological effects of mercury poisoning have many of the same symptoms as autism. I've seen 80% to 90% "in common" thrown around, but that still doesn't make it autism. Angina feels a lot like a heart attack, but that isn't the same thing.

As for lead poisoning, I've not read anything (one way or the other) on that as a possible cause.

 

[kdibattista]

Good gravy... ENOUGH!!!!

I am a soon to be first time mom and yes, I'm a little nervous about vaccinating my child. The reason I posted this was to find information on delaying and/or selectively choosing which vaccines my son will get. My son WILL be vaccinated but I would like to research what exactly is going to be injected into him, when and why. Yes, I would like to know why it is necessary for a newborn to be vaccinated against Hep B at birth. Yes, when a vaccine has a possible adverse reaction listed as SIDS I want to research it further (not saying I'm NOT getting it but I want to look into it). Yes, I will question what are in vaccines and if they are necessary because as of a few years ago, thimerosal was in vaccines and has since been taken out. What are in vaccines NOW that will need to be taken out in 5 - 10 years, after my child received it. To those of you who follow the medical advice of your doctor because they know better and are more educated, would you not seek a second opinion on certain things? Would you not research a surgery or operation on the internet if your doctor told you it was necessary or is their word enough that you go into it blindly? Would you not seek out alternate courses of action if you were not 100% confident and maybe had questions? I'm looking for the best course of action for my son.

I am researching this just as I am researching circumcision and breastfeeding. I know this is a heated topic and I can appreciate both sides being passionate about their stance. I am trying to find MY stance. That is my job... as his mother.

I will take into consideration facts and I will take into consideration personal experiences. To those of you who have been respectful on both sides... thank you.

I really need a drink and can't have one

 

[disney-super-mom]

No problem. What others may say in rebuttal to me is that the neurological effects of mercury poisoning have many of the same symptoms as autism. I've seen 80% to 90% "in common" thrown around, but that still doesn't make it autism. Angina feels a lot like a heart attack, but that isn't the same thing.

As for lead poisoning, I've not read anything (one way or the other) on that as a possible cause.

This is WAAAAAAY off topic, but you see, that's the thing. Mercury (thimerasol) or any kind of metal for that matter, does not cause autism. It causes metal poisoning. Yes, metal poisoning can damage the brain and cause symptoms which mimic symptoms of autism. You really wouldn't be able to tell if a person had mercury poisoning or lead poisoning by their symptoms since any kind of metal poisoning basically has the same symptoms.

Could thimerasol have contributed to the huge rise in children with metal poisoning symptoms? Yes it might have.

But could there be other sources for heavy metal contaminates? Absolutely

After all the recent headlines regarding lead in toys made in China (some toys had 200 times the allowable limit if you can imagine), I started thinking about other things made in China that I used when my child was a baby and toddler. Bottles and nipples, and teething rings, and sippy cups/lids/rubber inserts, and countless toys all of which made their way into my baby's mouth.

I know that the high amount of lead in Chinese made toys was just recently discovered, but how many years back could this problem go?

It really makes me wonder now what's really behind the increase in children with autistic-like tendencies.

 

[mickeyboat]

Good gravy... ENOUGH!!!!

I am a soon to be first time mom and yes, I'm a little nervous about vaccinating my child. The reason I posted this was to find information on delaying and/or selectively choosing which vaccines my son will get. My son WILL be vaccinated but I would like to research what exactly is going to be injected into him, when and why. Yes, I would like to know why it is necessary for a newborn to be vaccinated against Hep B at birth. Yes, when a vaccine has a possible adverse reaction listed as SIDS I want to research it further (not saying I'm NOT getting it but I want to look into it). Yes, I will question what are in vaccines and if they are necessary because as of a few years ago, thimerosal was in vaccines and has since been taken out. What are in vaccines NOW that will need to be taken out in 5 - 10 years, after my child received it. To those of you who follow the medical advice of your doctor because they know better and are more educated, would you not seek a second opinion on certain things? Would you not research a surgery or operation on the internet if your doctor told you it was necessary or is their word enough that you go into it blindly? Would you not seek out alternate courses of action if you were not 100% confident and maybe had questions? I'm looking for the best course of action for my son.

I am researching this just as I am researching circumcision and breastfeeding. I know this is a heated topic and I can appreciate both sides being passionate about their stance. I am trying to find MY stance. That is my job... as his mother.

I will take into consideration facts and I will take into consideration personal experiences. To those of you who have been respectful on both sides... thank you.

I really need a drink and can't have one

I don't think anyone on this thread would fault you for wanting to be as informed as posible to make the best decisions for your child that you can.

I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating blindly following your doctor's advice. Just because I chose to follow the recommended vax schedule, does not mean I didn't ask the questions about risks and benefits. You are your son't best health care advocate. And it is your job to ask the questions.

I don't think anyone on this thread doesn't share your concerns about what they might find out about vaccinations in the future, or about the possible risks of vaccinations.

We disagree on the quality of research and information which is being used to make a decision about withholding or refusing vaccinations.

We disagree about the quality of studies done to prove or disprove supposed links between vaccinations and injury.

We disagree about the importance of the vaccination of vast majority of children as protection for society as a whole from deadly and life-altering diseases.

As a parent, you will make decisions every day which will affect the health and well-being of your child. You will make the wrong decisions sometimes, there will always be regrets of one sort or another. Just keep doing what you think is right, and hope for the best.

Denae

 

[dennis99ss]

wow. I thought I posted a response, but the thread is so big, I don't see if I did or not.

But, a couple have beat me to it anyway. Geoff M is right. Mercury does not cause autism. He is right that the symptoms of mercury poisoning are nearly identical, more like 95%, as autistic symptoms. They certainly have equal symptoms in the realm of autistic related illnesses. However, we differ on whether the thimerisol can cause the symptoms.

Disney super mom is right also. Does thimerisol cause autism (or maybe the better way to put it, cause autism diagnosis) I think so. Does that mean other causes do not exist. NO. But, just because there are other causes, both genetic and environmental, does not mean that a potential cause, thimerisol, does not exist.

But, to the mom to be, etc. thimerisol is not included in childhood vaccines, in the US, anymore. As a result, the thimerisol debate should not be considered in your decision, except for some of the rare vaccines that do contain it, flu, (and maybe hepatitis, or is it yellow fever--I forget, but I know there is at least one that still has it, but it is also geared to older patients, rather than infants.

 

[LadyShiva]

wow. I thought I posted a response, but the thread is so big, I don't see if I did or not.

But, a couple have beat me to it anyway. Geoff M is right. Mercury does not cause autism. He is right that the symptoms of mercury poisoning are nearly identical, more like 95%, as autistic symptoms. They certainly have equal symptoms in the realm of autistic related illnesses. However, we differ on whether the thimerisol can cause the symptoms.

Disney super mom is right also. Does thimerisol cause autism (or maybe the better way to put it, cause autism diagnosis) I think so. Does that mean other causes do not exist. NO. But, just because there are other causes, both genetic and environmental, does not mean that a potential cause, thimerisol, does not exist.

But, to the mom to be, etc. thimerisol is not included in childhood vaccines, in the US, anymore. As a result, the thimerisol debate should not be considered in your decision, except for some of the rare vaccines that do contain it, flu, (and maybe hepatitis, or is it yellow fever--I forget, but I know there is at least one that still has it, but it is also geared to older patients, rather than infants.

What frustrates me even more than proving disassociation of thimerosol to autism rates is the fact that so many of these theories don't take into account the COUNTRIES that never had thimerosol in their vaccines or took it out years ago, and yet the UK, Denmark, and Sweden still see rapidly increasing cases of autism.

No one ever addresses that fact when they scream about "mercury" in vaccines.

Brandie

 

[meandtheguys2]

I really need a drink and can't have one

Cake works almost as well...although Brandie would surely think ice cream to be best!

So, is it breastfeeding tomorrow, or do we jump into circs next? I hope you find answers that you feel comfortable with. So much of momhood is trying to find the happy medium, and it brings about strong opinions. Mostly because we are all continually trying to maintain our comfort...since there are seldomly absolute rights and wrongs.

Be well, have some cake, and enjoy life!

 

[LadyShiva]

Cake works almost as well...although Brandie would surely think ice cream to be best!

So, is it breastfeeding tomorrow, or do we jump into circs next? I hope you find answers that you feel comfortable with. So much of momhood is trying to find the happy medium, and it brings about strong opinions. Mostly because we are all continually trying to maintain our comfort...since there are seldomly absolute rights and wrongs.

Be well, have some cake, and enjoy life!

Ice Cream IS the best!

And if you think I'm crazy enough to jump into a circs conversation, you're wrong!

Brandie

 

[CEDmom]

Good gravy... ENOUGH!!!!

I am a soon to be first time mom and yes, I'm a little nervous about vaccinating my child. The reason I posted this was to find information on delaying and/or selectively choosing which vaccines my son will get. My son WILL be vaccinated but I would like to research what exactly is going to be injected into him, when and why. Yes, I would like to know why it is necessary for a newborn to be vaccinated against Hep B at birth. Yes, when a vaccine has a possible adverse reaction listed as SIDS I want to research it further (not saying I'm NOT getting it but I want to look into it). Yes, I will question what are in vaccines and if they are necessary because as of a few years ago, thimerosal was in vaccines and has since been taken out. What are in vaccines NOW that will need to be taken out in 5 - 10 years, after my child received it. To those of you who follow the medical advice of your doctor because they know better and are more educated, would you not seek a second opinion on certain things? Would you not research a surgery or operation on the internet if your doctor told you it was necessary or is their word enough that you go into it blindly? Would you not seek out alternate courses of action if you were not 100% confident and maybe had questions? I'm looking for the best course of action for my son.

I am researching this just as I am researching circumcision and breastfeeding. I know this is a heated topic and I can appreciate both sides being passionate about their stance. I am trying to find MY stance. That is my job... as his mother.

I will take into consideration facts and I will take into consideration personal experiences. To those of you who have been respectful on both sides... thank you.

I really need a drink and can't have one

I hope you're not jumping to the conclusion that those of us who vaccinated our children on scheduled didn't ask questions or do research. Just because we agree with the medical community doesn't mean we just blindly went along with what they told us. For me personally my DH and I asked our dr lots of questions including what he did with his own children. We also read things on our own. We've known our dr for years and trust that he gives it to us straight.

Finally, you can't think you'd be able to start a thread like this and not have it get heated. You might want to wait awhile for opinions on circumcision; cloth vs. disposable; attachment parenthood .

BTW, you'll be 2nd guessing yourself from now on it's one of the joys of parenthood. I find chocolate and hiding in the bathroom works best .

 

[KariC]

Youre absolutely right. ESPECIALLY around here.

BTW - Your posts have been incredibly informative. I have a VAX'd 16 y/o and an UN-VAX'd 12 y/o. (who got Chicken Pox last school year in a classfull of VAX'd children. Weird, right? - now MY son has 100% immunity! )

And part of being a responsible parent is making decisions which are best for your child.

Again - weighing the good vs the bad shouldnt be condemnded, but rather applauded WHATEVER your decision may be.

hmm...just catching up on this thread after a day of errands....

is it true that you have 100% immunity? B/c my DB (26 now) didn't have the vaccine (obviously) and had chicken pox.....are you ready?.....TWICE.

(more anecdotes....just from the other "side").

 

[KariC]

Ok, I've crawled all over http://www.unitedstatesvisas.gov/visapolicy/faq.html and the http://www.unitedstatesvisas.gov/ website and even into the forms--there's no requirement to prove immunization for a non-immigrant visa. I know I got a ton of recommended shots to go to India, but they were all recommended, and I didn't have to prove my immunization status to get a visa. In addition, my shots weren't 100%, and were taken without enough time to take effect (had 2 weeks to prepare, Hep A&B shots are done in a series).

I found this:
http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/contentVaccinations.aspx
"Required Vaccinations

The only vaccine required by International Health Regulations is yellow fever vaccination for travel to certain countries in sub-Saharan Africa and tropical South America. Meningococcal vaccination is required by the government of Saudi Arabia for annual travel during the Hajj."

Can anyone share a link to prove that someone coming to the US has to prove their immunization status?

Brandie

This is exactly why I posted the question....I've travelled internationally and NEVER had to show proof of vaccinations.... I'm sure the reverse is true (people coming here). So, what's up with that?

 

[KariC]

Since you know what's in my head better than I do, what is my reasoning then?

Maybe this was addressed, but you are referring (in your post) to a partial quote. YOU and YOURS have an "exemption" due to that awful reaction your daughter had.

Why do you keep acting like people are villifying YOU for the reaction your daughter had? And when you're given an exemption in a post, you don't include it so that you can take offense? I don't get it?

 

[disney-super-mom]

This is exactly why I posted the question....I've travelled internationally and NEVER had to show proof of vaccinations.... I'm sure the reverse is true (people coming here). So, what's up with that?

This is what I found.
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_1331.html

It only applies to immigrant visas though.

 

[dennis99ss]

Lady Shiva, in fact the UK has studies that tend to support a connection as well as some that do not. The numbers do not control what has happened, as the environment changes.

Kari, my yellow card lists vaccinations, boosters, etc. The yellow fever is the only one I know of, although I believe there are a couple of others that are required for some locales.

 

[DisneyPhD]

I have a chicken pox question.

You can get shingles years after getting chicken pox. It is very painful.

Can you get shingles if you never had chicken pox, but had the vaccination?

Or is that something we just can't really know right now, except in theory since the vaccination is still new. I guess we will find out in 50 years when adults who never had chicken pox start getting shingles, or we have a dramatic decrease in the disease.

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

I haven't read the whole thread (lost the will to live after about 5 pages to be honest) but just wanted to say a couple of things. The Doctor who first 'suggested' the link between MMR and Autism is pretty much a laughing stock here in the UK. Even his colleague who worked on the so-called reseach projct as since come out and said that Wakefield had used 'dubious' research methods and was just out to make a name fo himself.

Secondly I have a good friend who's 10 month old baby is being tested at present to see how badly her hearing has been damaged since contracting measles at the age of 3 months. She caught this from a child who was friends with her older sister and whose parents had chosen not to vaccinate their child as they didn't 'believe' in vaccinations!

Interesting links......
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/2703/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5070670.stm

 

[LadyShiva]

I have a chicken pox question.

You can get shingles years after getting chicken pox. It is very painful.

Can you get shingles if you never had chicken pox, but had the vaccination?

Or is that something we just can't really know right now, except in theory since the vaccination is still new. I guess we will find out in 50 years when adults who never had chicken pox start getting shingles, or we have a dramatic decrease in the disease.

Varicella was one of the live (weakened) vaccines I mentioned earlier. Shingles is caused by dormant chicken pox virii turning on years after the infection.

Here's some links I'll pull from:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/shingles/dis-faqs.htm
"Who gets shingles?
Anyone who has recovered from chickenpox may develop shingles, including children. However, shingles most commonly occurs in people 50 years old and older. The risk of getting shingles increases as a person gets older. People who have medical conditions that keep the immune system from working properly, like cancer, leukemia, lymphoma, and human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), or people who receive immunosuppressive drugs, such as steroids and drugs given after organ transplantation are also at greater risk to get shingles."

http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-...s/news/20060526/fda-approves-shingles-vaccine

"The illness is caused by varicella, the same virus that causes chickenpox. Shingles occurs when the chickenpox virus lying dormant in nerve cells "wakes up" in older people or others with health problems. The vaccine, Zostavax, is actually a boosted dose of the chickenpox vaccine currently given to children."


Based on that, I would think we're still looking at the childhood vaccine working against shingles.

As always, all bets are off on recipients with compromised immune systems, as both links state.

Brandie

 

[DisneyPhD]

Varicella was one of the live (weakened) vaccines I mentioned earlier. Shingles is caused by dormant chicken pox virii turning on years after the infection.

Here's some links I'll pull from:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/shingles/dis-faqs.htm
"Who gets shingles?
Anyone who has recovered from chickenpox may develop shingles, including children. However, shingles most commonly occurs in people 50 years old and older. The risk of getting shingles increases as a person gets older. People who have medical conditions that keep the immune system from working properly, like cancer, leukemia, lymphoma, and human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), or people who receive immunosuppressive drugs, such as steroids and drugs given after organ transplantation are also at greater risk to get shingles."

http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-...s/news/20060526/fda-approves-shingles-vaccine

"The illness is caused by varicella, the same virus that causes chickenpox. Shingles occurs when the chickenpox virus lying dormant in nerve cells "wakes up" in older people or others with health problems. The vaccine, Zostavax, is actually a boosted dose of the chickenpox vaccine currently given to children."


Based on that, I would think we're still looking at the childhood vaccine working against shingles.

As always, all bets are off on recipients with compromised immune systems, as both links state.

Brandie

Well, that is one more pro for me to consider in the whole pro's and con's of vaccinations. Of course we can't really know for sure until we start facing it. As we are finding some times in theory and what really happens aren't always the same.

We decided not to give DD (6) her chicken pox booster this year, but will next year. I was a little on the fence with that one. That info pushes me off the fence more. CP isn't fun I know I had them, Shingles are down right NASTY! My mom had them a few years ago and it was very painful for her for almost 6 months!

 

[LadyShiva]

Well, that is one more pro for me to consider in the whole pro's and con's of vaccinations. Of course we can't really know for sure until we start facing it. As we are finding some times in theory and what really happens aren't always the same.

We decided not to give DD (6) her chicken pox booster this year, but will next year. I was a little on the fence with that one. That info pushes me off the fence more. CP isn't fun I know I had them, Shingles are down right NASTY! My mom had them a few years ago and it was very painful for her for almost 6 months!

Did your mom use any of the prescription drugs recommended for the rash? That sounds horrid!

Brandie