Vaccinations

[LadyShiva]

Try to find research institutions, Universities,(Columbia, Yale) or a Gov. agency that is not directly or indirectly funded by drug companies & I will agree w/ your statement.
More recently there have been more "grass root" studies being done, probably at the frustration of family members because of just this problem.
It seems on this board there has been an attitude of these type of studies or movements not being credible, I know how the system works & I will delay as long as I see fit.
I hope no one else ever has to find out about this system first hand as I have, because why would you unless you were doing it for someone that you lost due to a "side effect".
I see my mom suffering at the thought of not being able to protect her child from a medicine that killed her'
All drugs are not one size fits all, I won't take that chance w/ my child, as I said before my neighbor has 2 autistic children, # 3 & 4 where not vaxed unitl they were older. She told me,"I wasn't afraid of the chicken Pox." Do you blame her?
Until you walk in someone elses shoes you cannot say what there decision about this should be.
I have my reasons not to trust your "studies" so does my wonderful sister (in heaven)& my neighbors beautiful kids.
I'm done w/ this debate.

So who is the World Health Assembly being paid off by? You know they are the ruling health board for the WHO, right?

Meanwhile, the "fringe" that keeps pointing to thimerosol is also making quite a BIT of money for the discredited "scientist" husband and lawyer wife! There is a definite ulterior motive for "chelation" quacks-money! It doesn't matter how many kids they kill, so long as parents keep lining up for "cures" for their children!

Brandie

 

[disney-super-mom]

The notion will somehow just not go away that Big Pharma is raking in the big bucks with such products as standard "required" childhood vaccines like Polio, Tetanus, Measles, etc. Drug companies aren't tripping over themselves in a rush to make, sell, or market these vaccines. Many drug companies exited the human vaccine markets all together, and have only gotten interested in them again recently... but only in regards to newer novel vaccines like the HPV vaccine or the race for an HIV vaccine.

As for suppressing studies with regard to Autism and vaccines, most of the major studies done after the controversy arose had nothing to do with vaccine makers, but instead were conducted by outside research institutions, health institutions, and governmental health bodies. The vaccine makers' primary response was to drop Thimerosal from childhood vaccines in an effort to appease public perceptions. However, it seems to have had the opposite effect as many people assume that if they stopped using it, then that must be "proof" that there's something wrong with it. The frenzy of activities in this area reached its peak not long after 2000, and those organizations were satisfied that there was no connection and they've "moved on" to more promising research into the disorder's causes. But, still there's some work being done to look into new ways to find a Thimerosal vaccine-autism link. Here's the results from one of the latest studies who's results were announce this Spring. This one's from the U. of Missouri and once again found no connection... Link The money quote from one of the researchers: "It is time to move on and focus our research dollars and efforts on avenues that will be more productive."

That study was funded by Johnson & Johnson. And it wasn't about vaccines at all.

 

[LadyShiva]

WHO links regarding thimerosol safety in vaccines:
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/references/en/index.html

Specific statement from WHO regarding thimerosol safety:
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/statement/en/index.html

Specific statements on Geier and Geier's paper on MMR and autism links:
http://www.mmrthefacts.nhs.uk/news/newsitem.php?id=46

Brandie

 

[mrsltg]

IBTW to compare Big Pharma w/ Walmart & Microsoft just goes to show how little you understand these issues.
How many cases can you find about people dying or suffering because of the greed & coverups of those companies.

I haven't read anything on this thread in pages and was just trying to pick up what's going on. However, I have to ask you, how many people have had their lives saved by WalMart or Microsoft and the money they spend on research and development? "Big Pharma" (what a stupid way to refer to an industry) has done enormous amounts of good. I, personally, will be thanking them in three months when the needle is put in my spine to make it possible for my baby to be delivered. I will be further grateful as I take the necessary pain control medications following my c-section which make it possible for me to concentrate on my new baby as opposed to my pain. I am also VASTLY grateful to them when my mother takes her life saving blood thinning medication every day. These are just three examples off of the top of my head. Microsoft, while handy, hasn't done these things for me. WalMart, while convenient at times, hasn't done these things for me.

 

[Tink&SquirtsMom]

Polio and diptheria are also on the rise in countries such as India. With the increasingly globalized society we live in, you don't have to travel overseas to be exposed to those diseases. The recent outbreak of measles in Boston was caused by a legal Indian alien working in Boston who was not vaccinated.

This is what I wondered about. I am genuinely curious about this. Are those who don't vax planning on travelling internationally with their children? Are there places you would not go without vax?

If you are not going to travel, are you at all worried about other families who travel with their kids, who will in turn be around your kids possibly before becoming symptomatic? I ask because in my dd's 2nd grade class we have a family who spent all summer in India in a polio, measeles, etc endemic area. My own family spent 2 weeks in Ethiopia in a polio, measles, etc endemic area. There were 2 other families in the class who travelled in Asia and South America.

Can anyone share a link to prove that someone coming to the US has to prove their immunization status?

They don't, or at least it wasn't required for our Ethiopian son when we brought him home this summer.

 

[3jsmommy]

Ok I said I was done but, listen I am not on here to try to show off my medcal terminolgy or prove my social awareness.
I do not need to Google info or look up websites to know what I want to say here. Any link I have put up was in my favorites.
I don't jump on any thread that seems dramatic or catches my eye.
I know & love people who have experienced adverse side effects to drugs & I have witnessed first hand drug companies cover it up.
So have many of your congressmen & they have taken action.
I have friends who think vacc.'s could have played a role in their Autistic child.
So keep up your discussion & try to cut down anyone that disagrees w/ you to showcaes your "social awareness".
I did not read some articles & figure out what I know about the heathcare system & the power of drug companies.
The "fringe" might be alot more educated than you know...or care to know.
My family had nothing to gain when standing up in Washington to confront the drug companies..I don't think the parents that are questioning the saftey of vaccines do either....
Everyone is just trying to make a buck & sue right?
Money was the last thing alot of the families I met cared about . (or needed)
Big Pharma might want to do some recruiting right here or better yet,
next time you see that extremly attractive drug rep walk past you w/ a fruit tray in hand while your in your Dr.'s waiting room give her your card.

 

[LadyShiva]

Ok I said I was done but, listen I am not on here to try to show off my medcal terminolgy or prove my social awareness.
I do not need to Google info or look up websites to know what I want to say here. Any link I have put up was in my favorites.
I don't jump on any thread that seems dramatic or catches my eye.
I know & love people who have experienced adverse side effects to drugs & I have witnessed first hand drug companies cover it up.
So have many of your congressmen & they have taken action.
I have friends who think vacc.'s could have played a role in their Autistic child.
So keep up your discussion & try to cut down anyone that disagrees w/ you to showcaes your "social awareness".
I did not read some articles & figure out what I know about the heathcare system & the power of drug companies.
The "fringe" might be alot more educated than you know...or care to know.
My family had nothing to gain when standing up in Washington to confront the drug companies..I don't think the parents that are questioning the saftey of vaccines do either....
Everyone is just trying to make a buck & sue right?
Money was the last thing alot of the families I met cared about . (or needed)
Big Pharma might want to do some recruiting right here or better yet,
next time you see that extremly attractive drug rep walk past you w/ a fruit tray in hand while your in your Dr.'s waiting room give her your card.

That's the point... you intentionally pay attention to what you want to hear, not the cruel fact that autism will not be cured by merely eliminating thimerosol. It is emotionally comforting to cling to "mercury is killing our kids", a vast moneyed conspiracy, etc, etc, versus autism being a complex issue with no easy cure!

Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean the science is fake. Lots of people are being led down a path by a Pied Piper who has been discredited.

Brandie

 

[Nikel]

This is what I wondered about. I am genuinely curious about this. Are those who don't vax planning on travelling internationally with their children? Are there places you would not go without vax?

If you are not going to travel, are you at all worried about other families who travel with their kids, who will in turn be around your kids possibly before becoming symptomatic? I ask because in my dd's 2nd grade class we have a family who spent all summer in India in a polio, measeles, etc endemic area. My own family spent 2 weeks in Ethiopia in a polio, measles, etc endemic area. There were 2 other families in the class who travelled in Asia and South America.

Yes, we are planning on traveling internationally. We'll take each trip case by case, as well as follow what's going on with vaxes. If I can't be reasonably sure there won't be any more reactions, there won't be any more vaccinations, and we'll skip any places where we would feel the risk of being unvaccinated is too high.

 

[disney-super-mom]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/attack-on-mothers_b_52894.html?view=screen

A good article I think.

 

[jodifla]

That's the point... you intentionally pay attention to what you want to hear, not the cruel fact that autism will not be cured by merely eliminating thimerosol. It is emotionally comforting to cling to "mercury is killing our kids", a vast moneyed conspiracy, etc, etc, versus autism being a complex issue with no easy cure!

Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean the science is fake. Lots of people are being led down a path by a Pied Piper who has been discredited.

Brandie

Exactly We did the "research" too. Especially after we realized DS had a language disability.

But after talking to our pediatricians and reading articles ON BOTH SIDES, we determined the risks of not getting the vaccines outweighed the risks of getting them.

There have always been real risks to getting vaccinations. My ped hands out a fact sheet with each one we get, and there's a long list of warnings.

But there's a long list of warnings on EVERY medication you take, because what cures 99 percent of the people can be deadly for 1 percent of them.

 

[Geoff_M]

Try to find research institutions, Universities,(Columbia, Yale) or a Gov. agency that is not directly or indirectly funded by drug companies & I will agree w/ your statement.
More recently there have been more "grass root" studies being done, probably at the frustration of family members because of just this problem.
It seems on this board there has been an attitude of these type of studies or movements not being credible, I know how the system works & I will delay as long as I see fit.

For starters, perhaps you can provide me with specifics, instead of generalities to try and dispute. So, therefore, unless I can prove that no Pharma money (directly or indirectly) has gone to the UoM or the specific researchers, then the study (or any other supporting study, for that matter) will be dismissed by you. That's the logical equivalent of being asked to disprove there's life on Mars. I'm also not sure how you're saying that Pharma is underwriting the studies and work done on the issue by governmental health agencies both here and abroad.

In addition, major Pharma companies are now "opening the books" on both positive and negative research study results a couple years ago in response to such misgivings as yours. One example is US Government web site http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ is a public registry of both public and private clinical studies. Entry into the site is voluntary, but major medical journals have stated that as a "stick" they will not publish results of studies not found in the registry. The level of openness varies from company to company at this point, but they are working in the right direction in this area.

"Grassroots" research if fine by me... as long as it's will to play by the same rules and subject it's results to peer review like the so-called "tainted" studies you offhandedly dismiss. It's like when people talk about "alternative medicine"... there's no such thing. It's either "medicine" that can be shown to work using the scientific method, or it isn't. If people claim that an herb can help depression or joint pain, then you should be able to demonstrate that just like any other active pharmaceutical ingredient. "Alternative medicine" or "grassroots" research doesn't get a special pass over traditional scrutiny.

 

[Hannathy]

Ok I said I was done but, listen I am not on here to try to show off my medcal terminolgy or prove my social awareness.
I do not need to Google info or look up websites to know what I want to say here. Any link I have put up was in my favorites.
I don't jump on any thread that seems dramatic or catches my eye.
I know & love people who have experienced adverse side effects to drugs & I have witnessed first hand drug companies cover it up.
So have many of your congressmen & they have taken action.
I have friends who think vacc.'s could have played a role in their Autistic child.
So keep up your discussion & try to cut down anyone that disagrees w/ you to showcaes your "social awareness".
I did not read some articles & figure out what I know about the heathcare system & the power of drug companies.
The "fringe" might be alot more educated than you know...or care to know.
My family had nothing to gain when standing up in Washington to confront the drug companies..I don't think the parents that are questioning the saftey of vaccines do either....
Everyone is just trying to make a buck & sue right?
Money was the last thing alot of the families I met cared about . (or needed)
Big Pharma might want to do some recruiting right here or better yet,
next time you see that extremly attractive drug rep walk past you w/ a fruit tray in hand while your in your Dr.'s waiting room give her your card.

What does half of this have to do with the question of immunizing a child. I have asked for and was told the other side knows but no one has shown me the actual numbers that more children are killed or have serious complications from the immunization than from the disease itself. And don't throw Autism in there because it has not been proven to be caused by immunizations, stick to reproducible scientific facts. I'm still waiting.

I don't care who does or doesn't make money on vaccines, I just don't want to see children dieing and suffering from totally preventable diseases and suffering the effects of having them or exposing my children to the increased risk.

Most pharmaceutical companies would love to be out of the vaccine business altogether.

This is OT but since you are so against them I guess this means none of you or yours take any manufactured medication correct? And when your child needs one of the new super antibiotics to battle the staph from that innocent case of the chicken pox you wanted her to catch you don't let them give it to her.

Ever wonder how they have eradicated small pox? Or shouldn't we confuse the hysterics with facts.

 

[LadyShiva]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/attack-on-mothers_b_52894.html?view=screen

A good article I think.

Lemme get this straight... you want me to go read an opinion piece by a Kennedy flake on Huffington Post? That's your rebuttal to the World Health Organization's stance?

*grumble* I get ice cream for this! You owe me BIG TIME!

Brandie

 

[tedhowe]

Ok I said I was done but, listen I am not on here to try to show off my medcal terminolgy or prove my social awareness.
I do not need to Google info or look up websites to know what I want to say here. Any link I have put up was in my favorites.
I don't jump on any thread that seems dramatic or catches my eye.
I know & love people who have experienced adverse side effects to drugs & I have witnessed first hand drug companies cover it up.
So have many of your congressmen & they have taken action.
I have friends who think vacc.'s could have played a role in their Autistic child.
So keep up your discussion & try to cut down anyone that disagrees w/ you to showcaes your "social awareness".
I did not read some articles & figure out what I know about the heathcare system & the power of drug companies.
The "fringe" might be alot more educated than you know...or care to know.
My family had nothing to gain when standing up in Washington to confront the drug companies..I don't think the parents that are questioning the saftey of vaccines do either....
Everyone is just trying to make a buck & sue right?
Money was the last thing alot of the families I met cared about . (or needed)
Big Pharma might want to do some recruiting right here or better yet,
next time you see that extremly attractive drug rep walk past you w/ a fruit tray in hand while your in your Dr.'s waiting room give her your card.

I'm really not trying to be hard on you here, but don't you also know and love many people who have had vaccines with no adverse reactions? You certainly know many people who are healthy adults but would likely be either disabled or dead if they didn't have vaccines in their youth.

I think pharmaceutical company marketing is a problem in this country... it is the biggest problem with that industry as a whole, but that doesn't negate the positive impact of widespread, nearly universal vaccination.

The example of off-label use of antidepressants for teenagers is not really applicable here. The informal promotion of off-label uses is a problem in my eyes that many pharmaceutical sales organizations at least turn a blind eye to. In that area the drug companies do have a problem there. But that type of thing doesn't go on in the area of vaccines... what are the off-label uses of MMR or DTP?

 

[Nikel]

What does half of this have to do with the question of immunizing a child. I have asked for and was told the other side knows but no one has shown me the actual numbers that more children are killed or have serious complications from the immunization than from the disease itself. And don't throw Autism in there because it has not been proven to be caused by immunizations, stick to reproducible scientific facts. I'm still waiting.

Well I'll tell you straight up, I have no idea. I'm going with my personal experience trumps the research. I really don't care what the percentage either way is. I know we had a bad reaction, and that's all that matters to me.

I don't care who does or doesn't make money on vaccines, I just don't want to see children dieing and suffering from totally preventable diseases and suffering the effects of having them or exposing my children to the increased risk.

Okay, but I don't want to see my child suffer or die from a "safe" vaccine. To vax or not vax is NOT one size fits all, no matter what some of you want to think. We all have different medical histories.

This is OT but since you are so against them I guess this means none of you or yours take any manufactured medication correct? And when your child needs one of the new super antibiotics to battle the staph from that innocent case of the chicken pox you wanted her to catch you don't let them give it to her.

Being against some medical procedures/treatments in some situations do NOT mean being against them all. Take c-sections, for example. The high rates of c-sections and women being bullied in to them fires me up in a big hurry. However, in certainly is a wonderful thing to have available, when the situation calls for it.

 

[Geoff_M]

That study was funded by Johnson & Johnson. And it wasn't about vaccines at all.

No, it was about looking for a link between Thimerosal exposure and autism. The study and its analysis, structure, and conduct were scrutinized via peer review. Even if funded by J&J, unless you're accusing the researchers of misconduct, so what? If you can simply dismiss a study because a drug company was involved, then can we also automatically dismiss all "grassroots" research done with the involvement of "anti-vaccine" groups or doctors??? "What's good for the goose...", right?

 

[meandtheguys2]

Slightly OT, but is there any causal link between autism and heavy metal poisoning at all, in the mainstream arena?

 

[Geoff_M]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/attack-on-mothers_b_52894.html?view=screen

A good article I think.

Good debunking of said "good article" http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/06/robert_f_kenned.html

 

[Geoff_M]

Slightly OT, but is there any causal link between autism and heavy metal poisoning at all, in the mainstream arena?

If you're asking "Is mercury poisoning a known cause of autism?" The answer is, no.

 

[3jsmommy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/attack-on-mothers_b_52894.html?view=screen

A good article I think.

Great article.
To all of the responders to my post, it would take me too long to point you in the direction of all the info I have on this subject.
It is making me sick just thinking of it all, since I spent many months after my sister died working with Dr.s & familys from around the world who I guess were that "1 percent" JODIINFLA. reffered to.
I do vax my boys just not on the recommended schedule & I give them med. when accordingly.
I have many relatives & friends that have been helped by modern medicine. (Of course!!)
I also eat peanut butter & know alot of people who do w/ out a consequence but that does not dispute the fact that there are people who have life threatening allergies to it! KWM?
I know the subject of "Big pharma" was slightly OT, but that was a big part of my reason for trusting the parents who believe the vacc.'s are to blame in some way, I have fought these corporations on a similiar note & I know how powerful they are.
Now I really am done...