Universal announces details on diagon alley

[Silock]

another bitter post

What's wrong with that? Universal is doing some amazing things. I truly enjoy everything they've done, and their rides are top notch. But Disney has our hearts, and it makes us sad to see that they are so out of touch with what guests want and need.

It's like watching the love of your life slowly get fat over the years, while you look around and similar aged women are getting hotter and hotter. You still love your wife, but you're damn mad that she's not taking care of herself like she should be.

 

[Borishack]

But Disney has our hearts, and it makes us sad to see that they are so out of touch with what guests want and need.

QTF

 

[Ero_FL]

I have my Butterbeer mug. Sometimes I drink cream soda out of it... but it's not the same.

 

[rteetz]

The only bitterness here seems to be from those who are frustrated by the the fact Universal is innovating. How dare they!!!

I'm not saying they aren't but disney still has great things that universal doesn't and who's to say disney won't do something innovating in the next five years. Disney still rules the roost when it comes to theme parks.

 

[rteetz]

What's wrong with that? Universal is doing some amazing things. I truly enjoy everything they've done, and their rides are top notch. But Disney has our hearts, and it makes us sad to see that they are so out of touch with what guests want and need. It's like watching the love of your life slowly get fat over the years, while you look around and similar aged women are getting hotter and hotter. You still love your wife, but you're damn mad that she's not taking care of herself like she should be.

again I'm not saying universal isn't doing good things. But borishack is so anti disney in all of his posts. There is a universal board. Universal has an edge right now good for them but that doesn't mean disney can't do this as well.

 

[ArthurKing1220]

again I'm not saying universal isn't doing good things. But borishack is so anti disney in all of his posts. There is a universal board. Universal has an edge right now good for them but that doesn't mean disney can't do this as well.

I think the point underlying many of these comments and discussions is that people are starting to become worried about Disney -- meaning, about something they genuinely care about. I love Disney -- as I assume most people on these boards do. But that doesn't stop me from seeing what's going on vis-a-vis competition (from Universal) and Disney's own failures to adequately invest and update and thus from becoming concerned.

In my view, Disney in the last few years of Eisner and throughout Iger's tenure has neglected WDW. And what they have spent money on has seemed to have relatively little ROI. Think about the costs involved for the Fantasyland expansion and the MyMagic program. Then think about what Universal has been able to do over the same time period.

I know that attendance figures are still high. But that will be true until it isn't true, if that makes sense. Disney has a legitimate competitor in Universal and I wish they would broadcast to everyone that they are willing to respond to that competition in a market-leading sort of way, rather than simply maintaining the status quo (or even letting things deteriorate). The Disney many of us grew up with was never satisfied with the status quo -- they wanted to lead in all aspects of what they did.

If you want a park that is emblematic of all of these concerns, simply walk around Epcot. I'll preface this by saying that Epcot is my favorite of the four parks -- so this is coming from a supporter, not a critic. But when I walk around Epcot these days and see some of the outdated ride tech that's in place (really, in eighteen years, you couldn't update Ellen's Energy Adventure?) or the stagnating buildings (it's been seven years since Wonders of Life closed) or the simply mistargeted attractions (the Imagination Pavilion is a shadow of its former self and a mess) or the failure to take advantage of expansion pads (people have been arguing for new countries in Epcot for a decade+) or the "drift" in purpose of some of the central attractions (the Living Seas is now a Nemo ride; the rumors of Frozen displacing Malestrom) or the general worsening of food quality at so many of the beloved restaurants, I just have to wonder. And worry.

The king is the king until he's not the king. There's nothing inevitable about Disney's place in the theme park world's hierarchy. It took work and care and attention and innovation and imagination and devotion and passion to get them there; and, today, it takes those same things to maintain that spot. And I wonder if the company in 2014 still has those attributes, at least with respect to Walt's Florida Project.

 

[Borishack]

Disney still rules the roost when it comes to theme parks.

Fortunately, there are is a rapidily growing universe of voices of reason here who don't share your complacency.

And only those in deep denial can ignore their frustration with what Disney is becoming:

I could not believe how things have deteriorated over just the last 3-4 years. When rode Buzz Lightyear earlier this month, the thing that hit me when I entered the building was "wow, why is this place so dirty?". The entire queue area, and all the ride cars, need a gigantic scrubbing and refresh. Badly. And many other areas of the parks are in the same condition.

We were there for 9 days and thus ate counter service meals quite often, at least a couple times a day most days. I can count on ONE HAND the number of times I did not have to clean off a table. They didn't have people doing any cleaning - in order for my family to sit down and eat, I had to remove trash from tables and use napkins to wipe food and debris away from both tabletops and chairs. I remember standing in line for 20+ minutes to get food from the Patisserie in France, going to find a table, and everything was filthy. Tables looked like many families had eaten at them without anyone wiping them down. Sticky and spilled food and drink dried on top of them. It was really gross. And this happened over and over at counter places.
One afternoon we had a 4pm reservation at Rose and Crown. Unfortunately for us, they seated us outside. The reason I say unfortunately is because for whatever reason, they were convinced that people sitting outside would try to stay 5 hours for the fireworks (again, this was 4pm in the afternoon). We were informed, as we sat and were handed menus, that there was to be no lingering and we needed to eat and leave as there were people waiting for our table; the waitress repeated this multiple times during our meal, as did the person who delivered our food. And we were only there 45 minutes, we ordered our food and ate it quickly because the seagulls kept trying to land on the table. All in all it was a miserable dining experience that I paid $100 for. If I ever go back - and even if I return to WDW, I don't know if I'll ever go to Rose and Crown again - I'll be sure to ask for a table inside so perhaps I can eat my meal without being treated like a deadbeat.

Another day we had a 1pm Tusker House ADR. We checked in at 12:55 and waited a full hour before we were given a table. No apologies, nothing but "oh we had a computer glitch". When we finally sat down, it took forever to even get drinks. Half the party was done eating before beverages finally showed up.

Our room keys didn't work, and we waited in line over an hour to get them fixed.

And those are just a few of so many bad experiences this last trip, the whole MDE thing was actually just a small part of it.

No, they aren't getting our money anymore unless and until they fix a whole lot of things.

The problem is that quality has been declining for years...slowly but surely. People are realizing it. Now that its being accelerated by the MM+ fiasco, there's going to be a much bigger change of attitude, we're already seeing it from a lot of people on these boards.

The reason why attendance isn't declining (yet)....tour groups, Brazilians, Argentinians, Pop Warner, Cheerleaders, Band competitions, Golf Tournaments, and special events that bring the locals, Food and Wine, etc.
The point I'm getting at is all of this attendance isn't just families planning vacations, it's a lot of other groups that have been added into the mix that weren't there before.

MK's attendance may not be declining, but the complete stagnation of the other parks will be felt hard.

The idea that Avatar will be a bigger draw than HP is laughable at best. Star Wars is now being delayed for who knows how long, Iger will jump ship soon and the future after that is completely questionable

It pains me so much to say it but yes, the quality and service have been declining since the mid 2000's. It has finally reached the point, for us, that the cost of the trip is too high for the level of service we received on our last two trips, so we have no plans to return for the foreseeable future.

In other words, while we can afford Disney's ridiculously (and continuously climbing) exorbitant prices, we don't feel what they are offering us in return is worth the cost. I'm done paying hundreds of dollars a night to stand in a hotel lobby for over an hour begging for a working room key, begging to be seated for my ADR (an hour late) so I can pay for overpriced food and spotty service, standing in line for anything and everything. Over it. I get a better room at a 100 dollar a night Hampton Inn and more pleasant service at the Cracker Barrel restaurant off the interstate on the drive down.

And we loved going to Disney. We don't understand why they've let it go. We'd be back there in a heartbeat if they truly fixed it.

They are rapidly replacing the middle class single families that were return guests with teenaged tour groups and one-and-done foreign visitors, who come for a few weeks on the trip of a lifetime and never return. And in so many ways that's a "cheaper" guest for them, not least because they come without such high expectations. In addition, those guests don't care about having "new stuff" to do on future trips they're never going to make. There's no pressure from them to improve.

WDW quality has run several cycles in those 42 years - and it is now about as low as I can remember. Food quality in both the QS and table service restaurants is down, and many of the "signatures" should be re-categorized - most are little better than a hospital ER where the goal is to get you in and out as fast as humanly possible while separating you from as much cash as they can.

Park cleanliness is just plain putrid compared to the '70s.

Disney now treats guests the way most doctor's offices treat patients - your time has no value.

The entire WDW process now seems to be "wring as many coppers from the poor wretches as we can in the time available" - inordinate waits for ADRs in restaurants that are half-empty but don't have enough staff (but we'll bill you $10/head if you don't show - or LEAVE after waiting 45 minutes - think I may challenge that with my CC company if they ever do it to me); FP+/MDE to try to "smooth" the logistics in the parks and cram as many guests as possible into as little time/space as possible (don't worry about properly testing it prior to implementation - let the paying guests test it); the completely ridiculous RapidFill mugs (like, we're losing the stockholder's shirts on guests getting free drinks at 1/10th cent/ounce so we put in a sophisticated computer-controlled system to control the loss).
Less flexibility for CMs to make changes/spread pixie dust (pull a team leader aside and you may get a truthful evaluation of the conditions they operate in - I've seen CMs close to tears seeing how guests are treated and they are literally powerless to change it - those IT systems being put in to improve logistics are tying their hands - they can't make them work either).

 

[Rumors Rocks]

Fortunately, there are is a rapidily growing universe of voices of reason here who don't share your complacency.

And only those in deep denial can ignore their frustration with what Disney is becoming:

Eh.... 'rapidly growing universe' is a big stretch-it's more like a handful of disenfranchised people with a negative opinion that's voiced over and over on every thread- in the end no one really cares except you. You know what they say about opinions.....

 

[Catrinabeach]

Personally I can't wait for the expansion. We will be going. We have a trip planned for Oct/Nov and intend just a day at Universal but if they open the new rides we may extend that a day or two. Or even a week. We did go for a day last year to see HP and it was fabulous. We stay on site or rent a room for FOTL and only use it during the day.

I hope they are able to add FOTL to the HP section in the future. The difference with the train at Universal will be that they will not have as many people trying to go on it as Disney does as their attendance is not as high as Disney's so I don't expect the way to be crazy for it.

And they will probably give onsite guests early entry for it like they do with the HP section now!

 

[xie]

I wonder what is wrong with Disney.

My personal opinion, which is worth exactly diddly squat , is that for the last number of years Disney Parks has been governed by some folks who care more about profits than delivering guests stellar experiences and running a world-class resort.

Hence this whole shell game with distributing a bajillion fast passes so people will "not stand in line and go shop and buy food instead". They don't care about getting you on rides. They care about keeping you off rides so you might spend money on stuff. What really happens is that guests just mill aimlessly around the walkways and camp out on benches eating peanut butter sandwiches between FP appointments. This is why the parks feel like a crowded Christmas Day every day now, when attendance is actually only up something like a negligible 2%.

Put more simply, they have gotten Too Big, and leadership is no longer demonstrating the ability to really focus on the ground game of delighting guests.

If Iger had been incognito and spent the 9 days there with us and experienced all we experienced, he probably would have fired half his Parks management team. Or more.

 

[Planogirl]

again I'm not saying universal isn't doing good things. But borishack is so anti disney in all of his posts. There is a universal board. Universal has an edge right now good for them but that doesn't mean disney can't do this as well.

Then they should start doing SOMETHING.

I have an advantage in my opinion because I have loved both companies for many years. Universal is clearly outpacing Disney right now and that's Disney's fault. It's easy to become complacent when you're the top dog but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do what made you the top dog to begin with.

 

[ChrisFL]

QFT.

And also, frozen butterbeer.

NEWSFLASH: They have WARM Butterbeer this weekend! (and it might become more permanent, at least in winter months I've heard)

 

[xie]

NEWSFLASH: They have WARM Butterbeer this weekend! (and it might become more permanent, at least in winter months I've heard)

Hmm. I can't imagine it warm, not sure why! I didn't even like the regular that much, the frozen is what tasted best to me. Husband liked the regular better.

As hot as Orlando is in September, I doubt I'd try warm even if they had it, though. Maybe just once.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

Then they should start doing SOMETHING.

I have an advantage in my opinion because I have loved both companies for many years. Universal is clearly outpacing Disney right now and that's Disney's fault. It's easy to become complacent when you're the top dog but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do what made you the top dog to begin with.

I just don't understand why several of think that Disney is being outpaced by the cross-town "rivals." HP is nice, new Fantasyland is nice. I've been to WDW ~30 times over my 44 years, including 15 times in the last 12 years and haven't noticed any decline. I'm glad that Universal is building nice things at their place for a change - it gives us something else to do - and will help keep The Mouse on his toes. ...but be real, Universal is no serious threat to Disney.

 

[Borishack]

Eh.... 'rapidly growing universe' is a big stretch-it's more like a handful of disenfranchised people with a negative opinion that's voiced over and over on every thread- in the end no one really cares

Thank you for sharing the talking points of team denial. They follow the classic totalitarian pattern: diminish those who dare to point out the emporer's clothes are getting dated and soiled (while the Duke's wardrobe is getting nicer and nicer), then pronounce that their viewpoint has no audience.

Then go back to pretending that everything is fine and that the natives really aren't restless.

Have a nice day

 

[rteetz]

I think the point underlying many of these comments and discussions is that people are starting to become worried about Disney -- meaning, about something they genuinely care about. I love Disney -- as I assume most people on these boards do. But that doesn't stop me from seeing what's going on vis-a-vis competition (from Universal) and Disney's own failures to adequately invest and update and thus from becoming concerned. In my view, Disney in the last few years of Eisner and throughout Iger's tenure has neglected WDW. And what they have spent money on has seemed to have relatively little ROI. Think about the costs involved for the Fantasyland expansion and the MyMagic program. Then think about what Universal has been able to do over the same time period. I know that attendance figures are still high. But that will be true until it isn't true, if that makes sense. Disney has a legitimate competitor in Universal and I wish they would broadcast to everyone that they are willing to respond to that competition in a market-leading sort of way, rather than simply maintaining the status quo (or even letting things deteriorate). The Disney many of us grew up with was never satisfied with the status quo -- they wanted to lead in all aspects of what they did. If you want a park that is emblematic of all of these concerns, simply walk around Epcot. I'll preface this by saying that Epcot is my favorite of the four parks -- so this is coming from a supporter, not a critic. But when I walk around Epcot these days and see some of the outdated ride tech that's in place (really, in eighteen years, you couldn't update Ellen's Energy Adventure?) or the stagnating buildings (it's been seven years since Wonders of Life closed) or the simply mistargeted attractions (the Imagination Pavilion is a shadow of its former self and a mess) or the failure to take advantage of expansion pads (people have been arguing for new countries in Epcot for a decade+) or the "drift" in purpose of some of the central attractions (the Living Seas is now a Nemo ride; the rumors of Frozen displacing Malestrom) or the general worsening of food quality at so many of the beloved restaurants, I just have to wonder. And worry. The king is the king until he's not the king. There's nothing inevitable about Disney's place in the theme park world's hierarchy. It took work and care and attention and innovation and imagination and devotion and passion to get them there; and, today, it takes those same things to maintain that spot. And I wonder if the company in 2014 still has those attributes, at least with respect to Walt's Florida Project.

oh I agree with you. Unfortunately none of us WDW fans are a disney executive to hear the voices of us. And it is truly disappointing that disney is ok with the status quo these days. Hopefully we see some new innovation with avatar.

 

[rteetz]

Thank you for sharing the talking points of team denial. They follow the classic totalitarian pattern: diminish those who dare to point out the emporer's clothes are getting dated and soiled (while the Duke's wardrobe is getting nicer and nicer), then pronounce that their viewpoint has no audience. Then go back to pretending that everything is fine and that the natives really aren't restless. Have a nice day

is there anything in disney that you do like?

 

[Suger Mag]

is there anything in disney that you do like?

Nope... just trolling on the DISboards. .... it is like arguing with a spoiled teenager: lots of attitude and really nothing new to say except Disney sucks and we are all stupid...



1 new ride.... the train doesn't really count because you can only ride IF you have a parkhopper... 1 restaurant... and lots of stores (with at least 2 simply moved from HPland1) all designed to get you to spend money on Chinese schlock. But the theming details will be beautiful. Yup... Universal is definitely learning from the Master and taking a page from Disney's recent playbook.

Will I go, yes of course, I plan to visit WDW again in a couple of years for my daugter's B-day and we will take a day to go check out Universal again and it be be lots of fun... just like AK... and MK... HS.. and Epcot.

Why is it a crime to appreciate each park? In all reality the competition is good for them and us... leading to more new attractions for everyone to enjoy. It is not like you have to sign a exclusivity clause: "If visiting Universal you will not be allowed to visit WDW property and vice verse". There will never be a winner to the argument (Disney vs Universal) because it is all based on personal subjective opinions.

But while debate is fun.... when you become insulting in your attempt to prove your point ... then it is just juvenile posturing.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Nope... just trolling on the DISboards. .... it is like arguing with a spoiled teenager: lots of attitude and really nothing new to say except Disney sucks and we are all stupid...



1 new ride.... the train doesn't really count because you can only ride IF you have a parkhopper... 1 restaurant... and lots of stores (with at least 2 simply moved from HPland1) all designed to get you to spend money on Chinese schlock. But the theming details will be beautiful. Yup... Universal is definitely learning from the Master and taking a page from Disney's recent playbook.

Will I go, yes of course, I plan to visit WDW again in a couple of years for my daugter's B-day and we will take a day to go check out Universal again and it be be lots of fun... just like AK... and MK... HS.. and Epcot.

Why is it a crime to appreciate each park? In all reality the competition is good for them and us... leading to more new attractions for everyone to enjoy. It is not like you have to sign a exclusivity clause: "If visiting Universal you will not be allowed to visit WDW property and vice verse". There will never be a winner to the argument (Disney vs Universal) because it is all based on personal subjective opinions.

But while debate is fun.... when you become insulting in your attempt to prove your point ... then it is just juvenile posturing.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I am beginning to think you are right.

As I've said before: We have one Chevy fan spending all his time on the Ford boards doing nothing but complaining about Fords. It gets old really fast.

 

[beer dave]

the train doesn't really count because you can only ride IF you have a parkhopper...

WHAT? You mean that Universal is investing this money, supposedly to make our park experience better, but actually they are just doing it to increase their bottom line and feed the bonuses of the suits? This is preposterous! A company that we all have grown to love is just tossing us aside in favor of the big dollar sign. And the worst part is that all the universal apologist sheep are going along with it. They slap up these poorly thought out attractions with little to no detail in the shortest amount of time possible to give the illusion of
'improvement" but they are just actually looking for the next short term attendance increase-- to bolster next years pay out.

And they pour 6 oz of flavored corn syrup into carbonated water and charge you 6 dollars (?) a cupfull and name it after something we couldn't compare it to if we tried, and they are saviors.

Did I miss anything?