U.S. Department of Defense Announces Same-Sex Spouse Benefits

[PrincessKsMom]

Do you think the DOD should only hire single people without kids? Because that would sure save money. If you're going to offer benefits for married couples, the Federal law now is that you have to offer benefits for ALL married couples. It's really not that complicated, and has nothing to do with political correctness or social engineering.

My husband's company (private) dropped me from their medical. Said if I have the ability to get insurance through my employer, I had to take it, regardless of cost or if benefits were comparable. My husband's take on it was, well what about the guys who have 4, 5, 6 kids and their wives don't work, why should we be penalized for having 1 child and a second job. Yeah, that didn't fly.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Do you think the DOD should only hire single people without kids? Because that would sure save money. If you're going to offer benefits for married couples, the Federal law now is that you have to offer benefits for ALL married couples. It's really not that complicated, and has nothing to do with political correctness or social engineering.

I think it's great that they are now offering benefits to all married couples regardless of sexual orientation. Seems right. I do have some questions, though, about the amount of time off that a homosexual couple receives versus a heterosexual couple that I'm hoping someone can shed some light on. It's my understanding that a heterosexual couple doesn't receive any time off for their wedding, including their actual wedding day. Is that correct? And if it is, it does seem that 7 days is a bit excessive for a homosexual couple. I understand the belief that they should be able to travel to a state where they are able to get legally married, but should they not only receive the time off for travel? It would seem that if a heterosexual couple doesn't get any time off, and homosexual couples living in states were gay marriage is legal, the homosexual couple that lives in a state where it isn't recognized should only receive travel time off. But, if I am wrong on how much time people get off, that does change things.

 

[iheartdisney]

I think it's great that they are now offering benefits to all married couples regardless of sexual orientation. Seems right. I do have some questions, though, about the amount of time off that a homosexual couple receives versus a heterosexual couple that I'm hoping someone can shed some light on. It's my understanding that a heterosexual couple doesn't receive any time off for their wedding, including their actual wedding day. Is that correct? And if it is, it does seem that 7 days is a bit excessive for a homosexual couple. I understand the belief that they should be able to travel to a state where they are able to get legally married, but should they not only receive the time off for travel? It would seem that if a heterosexual couple doesn't get any time off, and homosexual couples living in states were gay marriage is legal, the homosexual couple that lives in a state where it isn't recognized should only receive travel time off. But, if I am wrong on how much time people get off, that does change things.

That is correct. If you are heterosexual and getting married, the DoD believes you are entitled to no time off. You have to use your leave time.

And if you put in your leave chit and someone that has to sign it went through a bad divorce recently, get ready to jump through some hoops. DH had to get signatures from 10 people stating that he listened to them tell him about their divorces before his chief would sign it. Just wanted him to be "prepared" he was told.
Recently a friend wanted to go home to get married (because who wants their family to be present for such an event, right) and the fiance's leave was denied because someone in his chain of command decided that it was not the right thing for them to get married so soon to deployment! This was not a last minute decision, they have been together for 2 years and have a child together. What did they do? they waited till the next weekend and drove to Vegas- on their personal time!!!!

DH and i didn't get married when we were overseas because the requirements for the country we were in we didn't meet, and i didn't have enough leave on the books- if you were going on leave to the states, you had to take at least 10 days. Since we weren't married, when we transferred we were stationed 900 miles apart, and spent the first year of marriage driving 13 hours each way every long weekend.

I'm pretty sure no homosexual couple will EVER have to go through anything like either of those examples, because it will be "discrimination."

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Any heterosexual couple can go to any municipality and get married. They don't have to travel to get married. However, that is not the case for same-sex couples. Seems as if the government is trying to right a wrong that has been perpetuated for far too long, and continues to be perpetuated by many states.

 

[DopeyDame]

I think it's great that they are now offering benefits to all married couples regardless of sexual orientation. Seems right. I do have some questions, though, about the amount of time off that a homosexual couple receives versus a heterosexual couple that I'm hoping someone can shed some light on. It's my understanding that a heterosexual couple doesn't receive any time off for their wedding, including their actual wedding day. Is that correct? And if it is, it does seem that 7 days is a bit excessive for a homosexual couple. I understand the belief that they should be able to travel to a state where they are able to get legally married, but should they not only receive the time off for travel? It would seem that if a heterosexual couple doesn't get any time off, and homosexual couples living in states were gay marriage is legal, the homosexual couple that lives in a state where it isn't recognized should only receive travel time off. But, if I am wrong on how much time people get off, that does change things.

From what I've read (admitadly not much), it's not vacation time - it's unpaid time off.
And assuming what bcla said is true, if you live in a state where you're allowed to marry, you get no time off regardless of who you're marrying. Since all heterosexual couples live in states where they are allowed to marry, they wouldn't get any time off specifically to get married. In Maryland, no one working at the Naval Academy or Andrews Air Force base would get time off, regardless of who they are going to marry. So it's really not different, it's just that heterosexual couples will never be in the scenario where they can't get married where they live.

As for 10 vs 7 vs a shorter number of days for travel. Meh. 7 unpaid days for some employees doesn't really seem like too drastic of a scenario to me. I probably would have chosen more like 4 if I were in charge, but alas, I'm not in charge.

ETA: I think the timing also really has to play into this discussion. If you are heterosexual, you've had your entire life to think about, plan for, and save for a wedding - at least in the philosophical sense. Many homosexual couples who have been effectively married for decades never, until very recently, thought they'd be able to marry. So it really is (at least for the next several years) a different expectation and situation.

 

[DopeyDame]

I'm pretty sure no homosexual couple will EVER have to go through anything like either of those examples, because it will be "discrimination."

Oh how I wish that were true. I'm pretty positive, though, that there will be more than a few commanders who give a pretty hard time to two of their guys who want to go get married. I sure hope you're right and I'm wrong about that.

(And it sounds like your DH and friend have some pretty jack-assy managers. I'm sorry about that.)

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

From what I've read (admitadly not much), it's not vacation time - it's unpaid time off.
And assuming what bcla said is true, if you live in a state where you're allowed to marry, you get no time off regardless of who you're marrying. Since all heterosexual couples live in states where they are allowed to marry, they wouldn't get any time off specifically to get married. In Maryland, no one working at the Naval Academy or Andrews Air Force base would get time off, regardless of who they are going to marry. So it's really not different, it's just that heterosexual couples will never be in the scenario where they can't get married where they live.

As for 10 vs 7 vs a shorter number of days for travel. Meh. 7 unpaid days for some employees doesn't really seem like too drastic of a scenario to me. I probably would have chosen more like 4 if I were in charge, but alas, I'm not in charge.

ETA: I think the timing also really has to play into this discussion. If you are heterosexual, you've had your entire life to think about, plan for, and save for a wedding - at least in the philosophical sense. Many homosexual couples who have been effectively married for decades never, until very recently, thought they'd be able to marry. So it really is (at least for the next several years) a different expectation and situation.

Yeah, I was thinking more like 2 days: one to fly there and one to fly back. But, like you, they don't have me making those decisions.

 

[DopeyDame]

Yeah, I was thinking more like 2 days: one to fly there and one to fly back. But, like you, they don't have me making those decisions.

In thinking about my wedding, though, we had to get our wedding license at least 3 but no more than 7 days before our wedding. (Which was a PITA, let me tell you...). So that meant I really had to be in the state for at least 4 days to even legally get married, add a day of flying on each end, and we're at 6. Every state (and county within a state, probably) will be different, but maybe that's why it's a full 7 days - to account for bizarre rules like that.

 

[Allison]

Lets see. DOD furloughed 600K civilian employees for six weeks because they had no money. DOD threatens to take EARNED benefits away from retirees because they have no money. DOD is seriously talking about reducing the force and mothballing major weapon systems because they have no money and the next few years look worse than 2013. But somehow, somewhere they find money for this. What DOD national security program will lose out to PC? Cheer feel-good programs all you want but I don't think DOD is the place for this little bit of social engineering.

How can they not? How can they be exclusionary?

 

[aristocatz]

Yeah, I was thinking more like 2 days: one to fly there and one to fly back. But, like you, they don't have me making those decisions.

Two days seems too short. I would think you would have to allow timing of flights times available & distance to travel, timing of appointments available to marry, etc... no need to make it impossible. If/when same sex marriage becomes legal in all 50 states, I would think this policy would be done away with completely.

So, I guess people who are unhappy with the extra days should vote for gay marriage to become legal in their state & this policy will end!

I am a heterosexual & I got married in a different state. I was able to get my marriage license through the mail, but I'm not sure if all states allow this.

 

[bcla]

From what I've read (admitadly not much), it's not vacation time - it's unpaid time off.
And assuming what bcla said is true, if you live in a state where you're allowed to marry, you get no time off regardless of who you're marrying. Since all heterosexual couples live in states where they are allowed to marry, they wouldn't get any time off specifically to get married. In Maryland, no one working at the Naval Academy or Andrews Air Force base would get time off, regardless of who they are going to marry. So it's really not different, it's just that heterosexual couples will never be in the scenario where they can't get married where they live.

As for 10 vs 7 vs a shorter number of days for travel. Meh. 7 unpaid days for some employees doesn't really seem like too drastic of a scenario to me. I probably would have chosen more like 4 if I were in charge, but alas, I'm not in charge.

ETA: I think the timing also really has to play into this discussion. If you are heterosexual, you've had your entire life to think about, plan for, and save for a wedding - at least in the philosophical sense. Many homosexual couples who have been effectively married for decades never, until very recently, thought they'd be able to marry. So it really is (at least for the next several years) a different expectation and situation.

The reporting is that it's "non-chargeable leave". I looked it up, and apparently it is paid leave, but "chargeable" seems to refer to whether or not it is debited from a service member's "leave account" (seems to be the equivalent of vacation time).

And if the service member is stationed in a state where SSM is allowed, they get zero leave.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/gays...-c-123-pilot-wins-agent-orange-claim-1.235511

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20...021/Some-gay-troops-get-extra-marriage-leave-

To compensate for the fact that same-sex couples cannot legally marry in 37 states, DoD will grant special leave to gay troops who want to get married but are stationed more than 100 miles from a state that legally recognizes same-sex marriages.

That leave will be for seven days for troops stationed in the continental U.S., and 10 days for those stationed outside the continental U.S., according to a memo signed by Jessica Wright, acting undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness.

Any absence in excess of that period will be charged to the service member’s leave account. Each service member will be permitted one marriage leave in his or her military career, the memo states.

Here's the actual memo, but it's scanned and I can't copy text:

http://www.defense.gov/home/feature...enefits-to-Same-Sex-Spouses-of-Military-M.pdf

There are military bases (in states w/o SSM) within 100 miles of states that allows SSM. I know there are important military bases in Nevada which are within 100 miles of the California border. Not sure being near the border means it's convenient. Fallon Naval Air Station (home of Fighter Weapons School) is within 100 miles of the El Dorado County Clerk's satellite office in South Lake Tahoe. But Nellis AFB in Nevada is 55 miles to the California border, but maybe 200 miles from any county clerk's office. The desert counties in California are huge, and their government services are concentrated in the population centers closer to the coast.

 

[DopeyDame]

Yeah, if it's effectively 7 extra days of paid vacation, that doesn't seem very fair to me.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Yeah, if it's effectively 7 extra days of paid vacation, that doesn't seem very fair to me.

And the fact that people have to fight for the right to be married doesn't seem very fair to me. I'm sure they would much rather prefer to get married in their hometowns, in front of their family and friends, than have to run to some other state to "get the job done" and then come home after the fact.

 

[bcla]

Yeah, if it's effectively 7 extra days of paid vacation, that doesn't seem very fair to me.

Depends on where they go I suppose. Perhaps not fair, but I suppose it would be fair if service members who want SSM could get married in any state or country where they serve. They don't really have a say in where they get stationed.

It can also be a mess. If they go to Washington or Iowa, there's a 3-day waiting period on marriage licenses. If they go to California, it could get pricey staying there. New York is 24 hours. If you're stationed in Texas, it could get really pricey getting to a SSM state. If stationed overseas, it could really get pricey unless one hitches a ride on a military transport. The leave is a practical solution and sort of one-size fits all. It may not be completely equitable, but it's an attempt to make up for something beyond the control of the service member.

 

[DopeyDame]

And the fact that people have to fight for the right to be married doesn't seem very fair to me. I'm sure they would much rather prefer to get married in their hometowns, in front of their family and friends, than have to run to some other state to "get the job done" and then come home after the fact.

Me neither, I agree with you 100% that it's not fair that people have to fight for hte right to be married, as I pretty clearly stated earlier. But for most people in the military or civilian DoD, they aren't stationed anywhere near their hometown, so almost all employees in the DoD will have to travel to get married if they want to be "in their hometowns, in front of their family and friends". Just because one thing isnt' fair, doesn't mean doing something else unfair is OK.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Yeah, if it's effectively 7 extra days of paid vacation, that doesn't seem very fair to me.

IIRC, there is a lot of $#!+ in the military that ain't fair. That's why they issue everyone "TS Cards" for the Chaplain to punch. . That may have charged in the last 35 years, but I doubt it.

 

[bcla]

Of course a lot of things don't seem fair on the face of it.

However, it's like the Guest Assistance Cards that Disney hands out at its theme parks. It's a one size fits all solution to a problem of what to do with people who have difficulty with lines. Not everyone has the same difficulties (injury, permanent handicap, inability to maneuver a wheelchair in line, autistic kid can't handle long lines), but the solution is the same for everyone who gets a pass.

For now it's a blunt tool. Ideally a superior would grant leave (and how much) on a case by case basis, but that too has room for abuse. Someone who doesn't believe in SSM might deny leave out of a general dislike of SSM. Maybe they have different opinion on where they go. Maybe someone wants to go home to Washington with the 3-day waiting period. Or maybe the superior does grant it but compels them to go to California without a waiting period.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Yeah, if it's effectively 7 extra days of paid vacation, that doesn't seem very fair to me.

Many of the same sex couples this will apply to have lost out on many years of housing benefits, medical benefits, transportation, etc . . . The cost of those missed benefits undoubtedly average out to far more than the cost of 7 days of leave.

 

[DopeyDame]

I feel like I have whiplash - just a page ago I was getting thumbs up and resounding applause, now I'm clearly on the wrong side of the dis.

In any case, I totally get granting time off for gay couples to go get married if they can't do it where they are stationed. Seems like a logical and compassionate thing to do. But in my mind, it's along the lines of other FMLa type life events like adoptions, illness, paternity time, other family issues. People should absolutely get guaranteed and protected time off. But FMLA is unpaid leave. An I think this should be too (unless, of course, someone wants to use what vacation they already normally have.)

The goal is for all married couples to get the same treatment.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Many of the same sex couples this will apply to have lost out on many years of housing benefits, medical benefits, transportation, etc . . . The cost of those missed benefits undoubtedly average out to far more than the cost of 7 days of leave.

Hear hear!

And let's not go into all the years those same sex couples lived in fear of being outed and forced to leave the service!