Turnabout fair play?

[ChrizJen]

I heard this being discussed on a radio program this morning...
What do you think?

(Please forgive me. I was driving to work when I heard this, so I was unable to write down the man's name or the name of his website. But I heard it on OutQ in the Morning on Sirius OutQ.)

The host had a guest on the show who is launching an innitiative, and has a website to promote his idea.
His goal is this: on January 15, 2009, every gay business owner fires a straight employee (of course only in the states where it's still legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation).
His logic is that if we can be fired simply because we're gay, then why not turn the tables and fire someone based on the fact that he's straight?

At first, my knee jerk reaction was "RIGHT ON!!"
Then, after letting my logic (and my grown-up side) take over, I realized that it's not the way to get things done. It would be "stooping to their level", so to speak. Would it really make a difference to those in power (who are actually capable of changing the laws) if we fired a few straight people? And would it really make us feel better? My guess is no. I think I would probably feel worse, putting a (most likely) innocent person out of work to prove a point? What happens to his/her family?

But the host argued that if we don't start taking steps like this one, when who is going to fight our fight? Who will get rights for us if we're not willing to fight for them ourselves? I agree with him, but I don't feel that this is a productive way to get non-discrimination in the work place. It may drive the point home to the ones who lose their jobs, but are those really the people we need to convince?

So, what's your opinion? And if you agree that this isn't exactly the way to bring change, then what do you think is the right way? Do you think it's enough to write to our politicians? I just don't really know the answer.

 

[themilesfamily]

I don't have a great answer, but I do have a question. Are there fields that are notorious for firing people because they are gay?

I have a hard time getting a handle on the issue because I've always worked in places where my gay coworkers were open, supported, promoted, appreciated, etc.

I worked in college administration and now work in a treatment facility for adolescents. I also worked in the real estate field for a while and one of the most successful male realtors in my town, which is a medium-sized town in Iowa, was (is) gay.

I guess an obvious field that would be uncomfortable with gay employees would be some churches or religious organizations. But they probably wouldn't hire a gay person in the first place, would they? Can they legally ask about that in an interview?

I don't know...educate me!

 

[npmommie]

I am curious of which states it is legal to fire someone based only on sexual orientation?
I had no idea this was even legal anywhere in the USA?

 

[ChrizJen]

I don't know that there is one particular field in which it's more likely that you'll be fired for being gay. But I do know that it happens. I've heard stories of people in law enforcement being harassed and eventually fired simply for being gay. It's certainly an issue with military employment (although that's a different issue covered under Don't Ask, Don't Tell).

But it happens in all fields. I personally know several people who are not out to their employers for fear of the repercussions it would likely bring (one of them witnessed a gay man in the workplace being harassed, then forced to resign because "that's just not the image we want for our sales reps". -those were their words. ) And in Missouri, it's perfectly legal.

As I said, i don't know that there are fields in which it's more likely, but it happens. And the fact that it happens at all, means that something needs to be done to prevent it from happening. No employer should have the right to fire an employee simply based on who he/she loves. And that's why I can see the passion behind what the person in my OP is trying to do (even though I think his passion is mis-directed). His idea is to wake up the folks who don't see it as an issue. That if a bunch of straight people got fired simply because they're straight, then it might drive home the impact that this makes on the people to whom this happens.

Whether you're gay or straight, I think that most would agree that it should not be legal for an employer to fire a person based on who they love.

 

[wallyb]

I'm so not religious - because I've got issues with organized religion -
but sometimes stuff from the bible just fits-
I think -
Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
stands up here.

 

[OrlandoMike]

I know Cracker Barrel used to fire gays......

Think they stopped that pratice...

But I still avoid the place!

And then there is the Boy Scouts.

 

[ChrizJen]

I am curious of which states it is legal to fire someone based only on sexual orientation?
I had no idea this was even legal anywhere in the USA?

Let's see...
According to the current list on hrc.org, it is perfectly legal in the folowing states to fire an employee based on sexual orientation/gender identity:

Alabama
Alaska
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming

ETA: here's a link to where I got this information. (This site is also a great tool for finding out about other state and federal laws, amendments, and LGBT issues in general.)

http://www.hrc.org/issues/workplace/workplace_laws.asp

 

[Rence]

Employees who work for an openly gay business owner are likely to be more supportive of gay rights than the general population. A person who has problems with gays is not going to work for an openly gay business person.

Firing people who by and large would be supportive of gay rights would likely have the opposite effect. Obviously they are going to be upset and because the whole firing is done as a gay-straight thing it could result in some changing their views for the worse.

Now a symbolic firing may help to get the point across. Gay business owners could print up "Pink Slips" and pass them out to their straight employees - reminding them of the fact that it would be perfectly legal to fire them simply because they are straight - as so many gay men and women have been fired over the years simply because they are gay. This would get people thinking, without generating an anti-gay backlash.

 

[ChrizJen]

Employees who work for an openly gay business owner are likely to be more supportive of gay rights than the general population. A person who has problems with gays is not going to work for an openly gay business person.

Firing people who by and large would be supportive of gay rights would likely have the opposite effect. Obviously they are going to be upset and because the whole firing is done as a gay-straight thing it could result in some changing their views for the worse.

Now a symbolic firing may help to get the point across. Gay business owners could print up "Pink Slips" and pass them out to their straight employees - reminding them of the fact that it would be perfectly legal to fire them simply because they are straight - as so many gay men and women have been fired over the years simply because they are gay. This would get people thinking, without generating an anti-gay backlash.

I agree with you 100%. I will admit that a small part of me cheered when I heard this being discussed. And I fully understand the passion by which this man is driven. The more I thought rationally about it however, the more I realized that he's got the right passion, it's just a bit misguided. It just doesn't make sense to hurt others in the same way that we're asking not to be hurt.

And your thought process is exactly what ran through my head that day. The straight folks who work for an openly gay employer are most likely the ones who are sympathetic to the cause anyway. Why hurt them???
The idea of the fake "pink slips" being distributed also crossed my mind at some point.

Great minds think alike!

 

[tiggr33]

I'm so not religious - because I've got issues with organized religion -
but sometimes stuff from the bible just fits-
I think -
Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
stands up here.

As a gay small business owner myself, I would never consider firing anyone without due cause. I stand behind Wallyb statement 110%.

 

[wallyb]

As a gay small business owner myself, I would never consider firing anyone without due cause. I stand behind Wallyb statement 110%.

Are you just standing behind me
so you can check out my butt?

 

[ChrizJen]

Are you just standing behind me
so you can check out my butt?

Now come on, you know that's not the ONLY reason she's standing there...It might be the only reason I'm standing there though... AAAAhhhOOooooGAAAAAAaaaaa

 

[wallyb]

Now come on, you know that's not the ONLY reason she's standing there...It might be the only reason I'm standing there though... AAAAhhhOOooooGAAAAAAaaaaa

Thanks - is my own personal version of Shock & Awe!

 

[DVCajun]

I don't have a great answer, but I do have a question. Are there fields that are notorious for firing people because they are gay?

I have a hard time getting a handle on the issue because I've always worked in places where my gay coworkers were open, supported, promoted, appreciated, etc.

I worked in college administration and now work in a treatment facility for adolescents. I also worked in the real estate field for a while and one of the most successful male realtors in my town, which is a medium-sized town in Iowa, was (is) gay.

I guess an obvious field that would be uncomfortable with gay employees would be some churches or religious organizations. But they probably wouldn't hire a gay person in the first place, would they? Can they legally ask about that in an interview?

I don't know...educate me!

Wow, I envy your naivete. I wish I could share it. I remember when that senator recently was taped claiming that homosexuals are more dangerous than terrorists -- Ellen said something along the lines of, "wow, they DO still exist!" as in, complete homophobes and bigots have gone the way of dinosaurs in her world. Well, in the real world .... where I live, and the rest of America lives ..... those people most certainly do exist. And some of us work for them.

Yes. In the states listed above -- you can be fired SIMPLY BECAUSE you are gay.

My thought process is this -- if a straight person were fired because they were straight -- wouldn't the logical legal conclusion be to have to change the laws that target gays in order to protect the straights? In other words -- it would be a landmark case. It would be impossible to protect the straights unless you by extension protected the gays.

Uh. Work with me here.

 

[npmommie]

Let's see...
According to the current list on hrc.org, it is perfectly legal in the folowing states to fire an employee based on sexual orientation/gender identity:

Alabama
Alaska
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming

ETA: here's a link to where I got this information. (This site is also a great tool for finding out about other state and federal laws, amendments, and LGBT issues in general.)

http://www.hrc.org/issues/workplace/workplace_laws.asp

wow!!! i had no idea, thanks for that info, i am going to that link too.
i guess living in a progressive open minded state makes me forget that bigotry is alive and well in other parts of the county. there are closed minded people here too, but they are not the norm.