TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Planogirl]

I was on a wedding board LONG after I got married. In 2.5 looooong years I was engaged I got used to being there. Got used to the discussions, to helping others figure things out, the people. I left once I grew tired of it or found somewhere else to "go". Likely the same with some here.

I can relate to this. I will likely quit coming to this particular forum soon but old habits die hard. Several regular posters have vanished lately and I miss some of them.

 

[Jennasis]

Asking why someone does something is not saying you have a problem with it. I worded it as nicely as possible trying not to offend. I don't see anything wrong with politely asking a question.

To be fair, nobody owes you or me an explanation, and often (mostly because there is no tone on a message board) even asking that type of question can sound like judgment or an indictment.

One really needs to develop an "it is what it is" mentality 'round these parts. You'll drive yourself mad (and possibly others to rant) otherwise.

 

[Cielei]

My question was directed at those who, at least to me, seem to have serious issues to the point that I wondered why they kept going. Several have answered, explained their opinions and I appreciate it. It helps me understand their viewpoint.

As the pp stated, text has no visual or auditory clues to infer meaning; so things can be taken many ways. It always amazes and intrigues me how a group of people can all witness the same event, and yet SEE it in so many different ways. Our last trip was in May, and we were less than thrilled with FP+ and the effects it had on our WDW experience. It changed things for us in a negative way - I love tech, so i embraced magic bands and the app, and we loved that aspect of things. We were really excited to give it a try, but over the past few years, many things have definitely changed in our view. We have no plans to return to WDW, but I do come to here to see how far they are pushing some ideas and what the latest reports of the system reveal. I have hope that one day something may change that will make me want to schedule another trip to WDW. For now, we have a cruise planned and future trips to DL in the planning stages. After the last trip, we realized that we just prefer DL for our Disney experience.

 

[cakebaker]

To be fair, nobody owes you or me an explanation, and often (mostly because there is no tone on a message board) even asking that type of question can sound like judgment or an indictment.

One really needs to develop an "it is what it is" mentality 'round these parts. You'll drive yourself mad (and possibly others to rant) otherwise.

I agree I nor anyone else is owed an explanation. If one doesn't want to answer, you simply don't.

 

[cakebaker]

Besides, I don't think that there is any way to question why people do something without it sounding insulting. I think that what you said about Universal is pretty insulting (and irrelevant) but I don't see any point in questioning your right to post such things. Keep in mind that this website is primarily about WDW but not only there.

If what I said about Universal somehow insults you, then I'm just not going to lose any sleep over the rest of it. Good Lord, how in the world my opinion of an amusement park could insult someone else personally is beyond me.

 

[magicbob]

I was on a wedding board LONG after I got married. In 2.5 looooong years I was engaged I got used to being there. Got used to the discussions, to helping others figure things out, the people. I left once I grew tired of it or found somewhere else to "go". Likely the same with some here.

To add to this, a lot of us "veterans" would come here even when WE didn't have a vacation planned in order to help those who did. Believe it or not, some of the biggest "Negative Nellies" and "Doom and Gloom" posters were some of the most positive, helpful resources on these boards a few years ago. We "resided" here with the express purpose of sharing our knowledge and experience with others in hopes of making their visits as magical as ours have been.

A lot of the turmoil stems from the fact that WDW pulled the rug out from under everyone. Those of us who had decades of expertise and advice to provide were suddenly in the same boat as the newbies... trying to figure it all out. We're unable to provide the helpful advice we used to because it may or may not be valid anymore. And during the last year or so (still continuing, it seems), today's advice is likely to be obsolete tomorrow as the "rules keep changing."

I think this accounts for the shift (at least for some of us) in posting more opinions and less advice. There have always been both here, but the trend has skewed away from advice, because the knowledge base of what works is still being re-built from the ground up with regards to many topics.

As to why we're "still" here... I second what surferdave said... we hope to outlive the madness.

 

[vacationer1954]

Then how do I see and feel a difference since our first trip, which was only in 2010?

That is a question you'll have to answer for yourself. I've been visiting consistently for over thirty years and there have always been concerns such as those you've expressed by some guests while other guests, such as yourself, visit for the first time and see a veritable paradise. Our family went through the same cycle back in the day. We came out of it maybe in a different place from where you'll come out of it.

One really needs to develop an "it is what it is" mentality 'round these parts.

That is true in life generally.

As to why we're "still" here... I second what surferdave said... we hope to outlive the madness.

That's one reason why I mentioned Eisner when posters started talking about Iger. I know that it takes three to make a pattern but referring back to when Eisner was in charge as the time when Disney was better at these things people are talking about is strange because people complained about Eisner in the same way. I wasn't here back then but I bet if we could look at what people here were saying about Eisner ten years ago we would see a lot of the same things.

 

[disneyholic family]

This is the post that got me to sit at my computer despite a million things going on around me. This is what I have been thinking for the last 12 months.

I am going to divide WDW guests into three categories:

A. Frequent visitors who are just fine with the FP+ changes. These folks might like it better because they can sleep in, or because they aren't ride-focused, or they've been/they go so very often. FP+ either improves their experience or just changes it slightly.

B. Frequent visitors who aren't happy with the FP+ changes for their own reasons. Former RD-commandos who now are being asked to settle for maybe one ride on their favorites, and maybe having to miss out on some of what they have come to expect. This group will either decrease the amount of time or amount of trips to WDW. (I'm this group.)

C. First time or rare (once a decade) visitors. They have little experience and are awestruck. They take what they are offered b/c they are AT DISNEY WORLD and it's a dream come true.

And - it's this last group that make the losses in the second group insignificant to WDW execs. Group C is seemingly endless. For every group B family that drops out, there is another group C family to take their place.

interesting analysis - and i think you may be right regarding how the suits are looking at it....(i'm also in group B at this point)
i don't think the suits are right, but that probably is what they're thinking...

why aren't they right? because if they lose the fans (group B), eventually they'll lose at least some of the first timers who are influenced by the fans....

i'm sure i'm not the only one on this board who has influenced people to go to WDW..
over the years, zillions of people have come to me for help with their trips and i've helped them wholeheartedly...encouraged them, drawn up plans for them..etc etc.
but lately i've dreaded people asking me....
i'm not 100% sure of the kind of experience they'll have (whereas i used to be) and so i'm much less enthusiastic about helping them plan....
and as i said, i'm sure i'm not the only one...
perhaps it doesn't have much impact on the numbers....but maybe it does...
when someone like Pete Werner gets on his podcast and rants about WDW....and tells people that they're right for feeling as they do....and that if they feel that way, they should vote with their feet by not going...well, all i'm saying is that those execs might not be considering all the implications of their decisions...

To add to this, a lot of us "veterans" would come here even when WE didn't have a vacation planned in order to help those who did. Believe it or not, some of the biggest "Negative Nellies" and "Doom and Gloom" posters were some of the most positive, helpful resources on these boards a few years ago. We "resided" here with the express purpose of sharing our knowledge and experience with others in hopes of making their visits as magical as ours have been.

A lot of the turmoil stems from the fact that WDW pulled the rug out from under everyone. Those of us who had decades of expertise and advice to provide were suddenly in the same boat as the newbies... trying to figure it all out. We're unable to provide the helpful advice we used to because it may or may not be valid anymore. And during the last year or so (still continuing, it seems), today's advice is likely to be obsolete tomorrow as the "rules keep changing."

I think this accounts for the shift (at least for some of us) in posting more opinions and less advice. There have always been both here, but the trend has skewed away from advice, because the knowledge base of what works is still being re-built from the ground up with regards to many topics.

As to why we're "still" here... I second what surferdave said... we hope to outlive the madness.

i fall into this group as well..

 

[kaytieeldr]

No it hasn't always been the same. How it is now is rougly how its been since the mid to late 1990s.

That's your opinion not mine. I'll take the way it was mid to late 90's anyday over what it has transformed into now.

So, no version of FastPass at all? Long lines with no alternatives? Only three parks?

FP+ should not be labeled FP. There is nothing fast about it after seeing the huge lines this week. Those were like the original standby lines in the past. The name should be Advanced Attraction reservation. AAR. It is for rides, parades, fireworks. So then marketing is working? More people are visiting WDW than some visitors would like, increasing profits for shareholders?

In a perfect world it would work. We do not live in a perfect world. WDW transportation can cause delays to enter parks and this can cause FP times to be missed, children can be unpredictable. Restaurants can run behind. All can throw the best schedule off. Disney can and has shut down standby lines at their whim with no regard of guests plans that were made months in advance per what Disney advises. Guests using WDW transportation are currently advised to allow 90 minutes. Transportation, unpredictable children, slow restaurants would all be cues to plan ahead (e.g. not too close) or be flexible. While testing no-standby is obviously annoying, this is only what, the third brief trial?

We get less today than when we had the booklets with one ride per ticket. This is not progress. The park attractions are the main draw, with the new limits the product will be assessed by the consumer. Are they getting enough for their dollars spent? Stockholders should be concerned. The quality of the product is in decline. Well, the number of parks has quadrupled, so with three FastPasses initially and more available, and with no indication of standby leaving (really), and with the parks so busy - why, exactly, should stockholders be concerned?

It was once posted on the DIS, if you are OK flushing a $100 bill down the toilet then you are ready for Disney. Maybe that should be increased. Increased why? I disagree with the premise, but that's the most it costs to get into the parks and only for guests getting a single day ticket

Maybe 6 advanced attractions per park should be allowed. One per attraction. Maybe park hoppers should be discontinued. This new system is just too restricting for vacations. There are more than six attractions per park, and simply because park hoppers aren't of value to you isn't any reason to eliminate them. That's the entire point of the Magic Your Way tickets: you pay for the options that make sense to YOU.

Kathy

 

[AmyB2006]

My point is that even though profits have always been job #1, the WAY in which Disney used to ensure those profits was to provide superior customer service. It wasn't a matter of putting the customer service ABOVE making a profit, it was a matter of making a profit BECAUSE of your customer service. They seem to be resting on their laurels and have realized that people will fill the parks anyway, so why work so hard at ensuring the same level of service?

This is kind of how I feel. I just think they've packed the parks with so many people and don't have enough employees to ensure that same level of customer service. And I think the CMs are treated poorly by some of the customers because they're unhappy with things, and this reflects in their attitude towards customers. It's like one big ugly circle.

With that being said, I still love Disney and hopefully always will. It's still "magical" for me. LOL And I LOVE watching my kids get the same enjoyment from it.

 

[mellyf]

I can't answer for MagicBob, but I haven't been back (as we'd planned). It was SO GOOD for a decade. Our family vacation go to.
And then it got weird.
And we did pick other destinations this year.
But I can't walk away from my hope that Disney will change some things and stop thinking with their tech and start doing what they used to do great: Make new magic.

I wish there was a "like" button. I so agree with this, although for us, it was getting close to two decades as our family go-to vacation. We picked another destination this year -- Universal. I'm a huge Harry Potter geek, but even so, I've never been able to tear myself away from Disney to go. This year is the year. At this point, I'm not willing to give WDW my hard-earned vacation money. And we've decided the next time we do Disney, it will be on the west coast. I'm sure airfare will be more expensive, but from all the reading I've done, off-site accommodations will be cheaper. We've always stayed in the bubble at WDW, but it sounds like it's not as important at Disneyland to do so.

 

[Jennasis]

If what I said about Universal somehow insults you, then I'm just not going to lose any sleep over the rest of it. Good Lord, how in the world my opinion of an amusement park could insult someone else personally is beyond me.

Ooh ooh! This one I will explain.

Some people take offense to digs at things they love because those digs feel like digs at them. When one questions/insults something a person has great affection for it can feel like a slam on THEIR personal sense of taste, THEIR choices or ability to choose. When someone says Disney sucks, it can sound like "Your choices suck" and therefore "you suck" to some. (On a grander scale, it's why teenagers defend their lousy boyfriends/girlfriends when parents beg then to breakup with the jerk).

Is it a little crazy to take such things personally? Sure! But the human brain is a crazy complex thing. At least, this is what my therapist tells.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

why aren't they right? because if they lose the fans (group B), eventually they'll lose at least some of the first timers who are influenced by the fans....

i'm sure i'm not the only one on this board who has influenced people to go to WDW..
over the years, zillions of people have come to me for help with their trips and i've helped them wholeheartedly...encouraged them, drawn up plans for them..etc etc.
but lately i've dreaded people asking me....
i'm not 100% sure of the kind of experience they'll have (whereas i used to be) and so i'm much less enthusiastic about helping them plan....
and as i said, i'm sure i'm not the only one...
perhaps it doesn't have much impact on the numbers....but maybe it does...
when someone like Peter Werner gets on his podcast and rants about WDW....and tells people that they're right for feeling as they do....and that if they feel that way, they should vote with their feet by not going...well, all i'm saying is that those execs might not be considering all the implications of their decisions...

I'm very curious whether Disney has underestimated the effect of unhappy guests, both fans and first-timers, especially in this internet age. Years ago, at my son's playgroup, a mom told about ten families her terrible experience at MK over Christmas, highlighted by two hours in line for Peter Pan. When she wasn't there, I had conversations with some people about *my* recent trip, explaining fastpast, rope drop, and traveling in less busy times. Now, a hundred people could be "listening in" on those conversations, good and bad. Even those who love the new system may scare people away with talk of reserving times two months ahead.

 

[cakebaker]

Ooh ooh! This one I will explain.

Some people take offense to digs at things they love because those digs feel like digs at them. When one questions/insults something a person has great affection for it can feel like a slam on THEIR personal sense of taste, THEIR choices or ability to choose. When someone says Disney sucks, it can sound like "Your choices suck" and therefore "you suck" to some. (On a grander scale, it's why teenagers defend their lousy boyfriends/girlfriends when parents beg then to breakup with the jerk).

Is it a little crazy to take such things personally? Sure! But the human brain is a crazy complex thing. At least, this is what my therapist tells.

Interesting- Perhaps therapy is in order for me because I don't really get insulted when someone cusses something I like. My brain must not be so complex and that worries me.

 

[crazycatlady]

I love a few of the Disney resorts but personally can't think of anything more dull than spending a lot of time hanging out at one. A few hours during a vacation is fine but if you sit by a pool you might as well do that anywhere. Plus the resorts really don't have that much else to do.

For us it's all about the parks and that emphasis might have contributed to us not caring all that much if we were onsite or offsite until recently. I was almost ready to buy into the notion that we needed to stay onsite to get the most out of our vacation but I discarded that idea when they made some changes at Epcot that ruined the Disney experience for me. I still love certain elements about WDW but don't see any sense in paying more and more money for a lesser experience. And it is a lesser experience for us now.

I do agree that FP+ only isn't likely however I can see FP+ only being used for the more popular attractions. That will leave some people out because the popular attractions are popular because everyone wants to experience them. If this happens I think that many people can expect to have to settle for the mid tier rides whose lines will probably be longer since those waiting in virtual queues will probably line up to ride other things. I don't see any logic to the notion that Disney will eventually end up with 10 minute waits. People will have to be somewhere and I believe that most people go to WDW to ride rides and see shows

We are ride/show people, not pool people. We may spend a few hours total of a vacation using a resort pool, but spend way more time at the parks riding rides. We love the atmosphere and theming of the Disney parks (as well as the Universal parks), so it is not an "ordinary amusement park experience we are looking for. We have a Six Flags 45 minutes from our house and rarely ever go since we have gotten older. But if Disney makes it harder and harder to ride our favorite rides over and over, we will probably visit less or eventually stop going. We won't spend thousands of dollars to ride fewer rides a day than we are used to.

 

[cakebaker]

We are ride/show people, not pool people. We may spend a few hours total of a vacation using a resort pool, but spend way more time at the parks riding rides. We love the atmosphere and theming of the Disney parks (as well as the Universal parks), so it is not an "ordinary amusement park experience we are looking for. We have a Six Flags 45 minutes from our house and rarely ever go since we have gotten older. But if Disney makes it harder and harder to ride our favorite rides over and over, we will probably visit less or eventually stop going. We won't spend thousands of dollars to ride fewer rides a day than we are used to.

For those of us who say the resorts are part of our vacation- it's a great deal more than just sitting by the pool. Depending on the resort, there are lots of things to do. Biking, fishing, boat excursions, movies, campfires, shopping, dining, horseback riding, spas, ...it's a long list. We've been to WDW many times and haven't done half the things there are to do at any given resort we've stayed at. I understand if none of that is of interest, but it's not just sitting at a pool. Plus there are the water parks as well.

And the big one for me is not that the resorts offer things I can't do somewhere else cheaper, it's the combination of the resorts and the parks that no one else offers.

 

[chris123abc]

I don't care much for the fast pass option at all. I don't like that I need to figure out what rides I want to go on 60 dad from now. The same goes for ADR who knows if my family will be in the mood got Italian, fish, or steak 180 days in advance. If disney changes everything to fast pass + we r done. I don't like to have every minute if my vacaton scheduled

 

[Angel Ariel]

For those of us who say the resorts are part of our vacation- it's a great deal more than just sitting by the pool. Depending on the resort, there are lots of things to do. Biking, fishing, boat excursions, movies, campfires, shopping, dining, horseback riding, spas, ...it's a long list. We've been to WDW many times and haven't done half the things there are to do at any given resort we've stayed at. I understand if none of that is of interest, but it's not just sitting at a pool. Plus there are the water parks as well.

And the big one for me is not that the resorts offer things I can't do somewhere else cheaper, it's the combination of the resorts and the parks that no one else offers.

The vacations we have at the outer banks are very much what you describe here with all the different activities we do.

I can absolutely understand why some like to combine that type of vacation with the parks as well. It just isn't our cup of tea. We have those types of vacations, but we keep them separate from the parks. When we go to Disney, we are there to experience the things we can't do anywhere else we vacation.

 

[Suvadoo]

For those of us who say the resorts are part of our vacation- it's a great deal more than just sitting by the pool. Depending on the resort, there are lots of things to do. Biking, fishing, boat excursions, movies, campfires, shopping, dining, horseback riding, spas, ...it's a long list. We've been to WDW many times and haven't done half the things there are to do at any given resort we've stayed at. I understand if none of that is of interest, but it's not just sitting at a pool. Plus there are the water parks as well.

And the big one for me is not that the resorts offer things I can't do somewhere else cheaper, it's the combination of the resorts and the parks that no one else offers.

Personally, I have a very strict vacation budget, regardless of the destination and most of the things you mention are additional charges. In my case, I allot all of my family's WDW entertainment expenses to park tickets.

You also mention resort dining, but most reviews I've read about resort food is that it's overpriced and mediocre. This has also been my personal experience. But I don't go to WDW for food.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

To add to this, a lot of us "veterans" would come here even when WE didn't have a vacation planned in order to help those who did. Believe it or not, some of the biggest "Negative Nellies" and "Doom and Gloom" posters were some of the most positive, helpful resources on these boards a few years ago. We "resided" here with the express purpose of sharing our knowledge and experience with others in hopes of making their visits as magical as ours have been.

A lot of the turmoil stems from the fact that WDW pulled the rug out from under everyone. Those of us who had decades of expertise and advice to provide were suddenly in the same boat as the newbies... trying to figure it all out. We're unable to provide the helpful advice we used to because it may or may not be valid anymore. And during the last year or so (still continuing, it seems), today's advice is likely to be obsolete tomorrow as the "rules keep changing."

I think this accounts for the shift (at least for some of us) in posting more opinions and less advice. There have always been both here, but the trend has skewed away from advice, because the knowledge base of what works is still being re-built from the ground up with regards to many topics.

As to why we're "still" here... I second what surferdave said... we hope to outlive the madness.

I agree with much you are saying. I am very thankful for all the veterans. They did in fact help make may of my trips much better which I in turned passed on my friends and family. I had been reading the boards several years gathering info before I ever joined. I didn't join until I wanted to ask something specific and got the answer I was looking for. I've never seen the number of complaints like I have seen in the past year or so.

As for why we "haters" still come to this board. Once at the beginning of all of this starting, I said it was like losing your best friend. And it still feels that way to a degree. You love that friend but you don't like the decisions that they are making and the direction their life is going. But if you really love them that doesn't change because of those things. You still love that friend. You are just confused and sad that they are changing. But you still love them. Us "haters" don't hate Disney. We hate the decisions they are making and the direction their "life" is headed. Believe it or not, you can still love them and not agree with everything they are doing. Some of the biggest "haters" are also the biggest lovers of Disney. And besides, for some things, they still have great advice to share and I am thankful they are here!