TOTW closed July 4th for paid event

[crvetter]

I was under the impression that the lounge was paid by/with BLT owners dues thats why it's only for members

This is a common misconception. It is a commercial unit owned by DVC. Similar to how the residential units are owned by members (and 2% by at minimum by DVC). DVC then can lease out the unit or keep it for themselves to run a commercial enterprise out of it. DVC pays dues on it just as they do pay dues on the points they own (just not the points they hold to be sold, which is another common misconception). You can ask for the financial statement to be sent to you if you own BLT and you will see the dues don’t have a line item for the lounge (shown also in the budget), DVC paying dues on the points it owns, and dues paid for the lounge space (not sure). It is listed as an incidental benefit which does mean members aren’t paying for it.

Have anyone looked that up to see what it actually says?

Technically they are right it said up until a few days ago that the lounge was a blockout date on the 4th. It didn’t specifically state that meant BLT guests could access the lounge. But the terrible part is that is what it said previous years but it always meant BLT guests could access the lounge. So they are trying to just play semantics with that excuse.

 

[Princess Merida]

I’ve debated back and forth buying the minimum direct AKV for my next contract just to get “perks” even though I can get many more points for my money with another resale contract. Now...... no way. Unfortunately they can’t be trusted and have no problem with how they hurt their members. This time they’re not singling out the resale group, but are throwing a wrench into direct buyers vacations as well. The way they did this was totally wrong and yes people won’t know and some may not have tickets to even go to a park last minute. They need to inform everyone with a reservation at BLT directly. So unfair! I’ll stick with resale no “perks” save thousands as I honestly believe at this point if DVC could crush the resale market and maybe even if not they’d take said “perks” from everyone just to make a buck no matter what the cost.

 

[crvetter]

I’ve debated back and forth buying the minimum direct AKV for my next contract just to get “perks” even though I can get many more points for my money with another resale contract. Now...... no way. Unfortunately they can’t be trusted and have no problem with how they hurt their members. This time they’re not singling out the resale group, but are throwing a wrench into direct buyers vacations as well. The way they did this was totally wrong and yes people won’t know and some may not have tickets to even go to a park last minute. They need to inform everyone with a reservation at BLT directly. So unfair! I’ll stick with resale no “perks” save thousands as I honestly believe at this point if DVC could crush the resale market and maybe even if not they’d take said “perks” from everyone just to make a buck no matter what the cost.

Just wanted to make sure you know you can go to the lounge (obviously not on blackout days) as a resale owner. So no reason to go direct if you ever want to access it. But it is only currently promised until the end of 2019.

Yeah the issue with the perks is that DVC can take them away at any point. I assume while they actively are selling direct some sort of direct perks will exist but they could be shell of what they are now, better than now, or simply perks that mean nothing to you. You are better buying direct if the perks make sense over the short term or the resale restrictions really matter (which won’t matter much until 2042 gets closer to rolling around).

 

[Princess Merida]

Just wanted to make sure you know you can go to the lounge (obviously not on blackout days) as a resale owner. So no reason to go direct if you ever want to access it. But it is only currently promised until the end of 2019.

Yeah the issue with the perks is that DVC can take them away at any point. I assume while they actively are selling direct some sort of direct perks will exist but they could be shell of what they are now, better than now, or simply perks that mean nothing to you. You are better buying direct if the perks make sense over the short term or the resale restrictions really matter (which won’t matter much until 2042 gets closer to rolling around).

Yes, thank you, I am aware. We have been up a few times. It’s really nice to bring my family up. We are staying there only for a night in 2 weeks and plan on watching fireworks from the lounge.

 

[stewart715]

TOTWL was already blocked off exclusively for BLT guests on the 3rd and 4th. So it's ultimately just a disgustingly greedy last-minute money grab.

This new management group is truly gross.

Yikes, that I didn't know. That's pretty crappy :/

 

[chicagoshannon]

I wish everyone would just refuse to book this event. The way to get DVC to stop doing this stuff is to simply stop booking.

 

[minniqt7]

I don't post much but THIS..... does seem to me to be very inconsiderate and just plain wrong. If it was announced in a timely manner for DVC guests of BLT then they would have some decision making time to plan but this short notice is just.. well.... crap. I'm not a BLT owner but if I was and I made big plans I'd be quite upset to say the least. Always for the last 15yrs as an owner been a huge supporter but I'm feeling a bit negative as of late. Sad....

 

[rileyz]

It would be great if members who aren’t affected this time could email or call to let DVC know how wrong this is. I know my aunt, who also owns DVC, is doing so even though she doesn’t have a trip planned until fall. 3 weeks notice is just wrong, sorry if I’m repeating myself but the longer this sits with me the more ticked off I am.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I wish everyone would just refuse to book this event. The way to get DVC to stop doing this stuff is to simply stop booking.

It's sold out.

 

[Madame]

It's sold out.

We're all shocked I'm sure

 

[Madame]

DVC pays dues on it just as they do pay dues on the points they own (just not the points they hold to be sold, which is another common misconception).

Completely OT, but did someone not too long ago enumerate how the system is set up so that DVC essentially never actually pays dues on their points? I'm just curious and looking for clarification. I'll try to find it...

 

[Princess Merida]

It would be great if members who aren’t affected this time could email or call to let DVC know how wrong this is. I know my aunt, who also owns DVC, is doing so even though she doesn’t have a trip planned until fall. 3 weeks notice is just wrong, sorry if I’m repeating myself but the longer this sits with me the more ticked off I am.

Sent email to DVC regarding my disappointment even though it doesn't affect me directly. I don't know how much impact it will have as I'm a resale member.

 

[ScubaCat]

I wish everyone would just refuse to book this event. The way to get DVC to stop doing this stuff is to simply stop booking.

Thing is, Disney has decided (probably correctly) that they've maxed out the amount they can squeeze from the average middle class citizen, so most of their offerings are now geared towards people with extra money to burn. If they stomp on a few average folks in the process, that's just part of the business model. It's too bad, but it is what it is. Dropping this not-insignificant money grab 3 weeks before people arrive is just the latest and most egregious example. The days of any decency in their business model seem to have evaporated under the current regime. We just have to accept it for what it is and roll with it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

What makes you think it isn’t losing money? I mean it could be making money but the times I’ve seen it’s been very empty and not really much food or beverages being sold.

1 - background - restaurant and work in tourism based area with large swings in seasons
2 - visits to BLT since it opened
3 - comments reported from staff there
4 - staffing levels
5 - offerings of the lounge
6 - the sheer length of time it's been open with no change other than finally opening to all members onsite.

My look at is less based on the number of people there when we've been there even if it has been quite busy but on everything else. Of course I do not see the books for it just as you don't so it's all a guess. The biggest thing is fixed costs. They certainly make money on the variable. I don't know these slow times other than opening or closing hours as every single time I've been there since they opened it to all members onsite I've had to stand in line for drinks. I don't doubt they make the majority of income during the hour(s) surrounding the fireworks. It's nice to have a restaurant or bar that is busy from opening to close but that isn't a necessity to make money either. There's money in booze. There's also money in eggs but they aren't open for breakfast.

Your reason you believe it doesn't make money beyond it being slow when you've been there or something else?

 

[VrBchJ]

I wonder how many BLT owners staying on points July 4th are paying to go to TOTW when for 10 years they've been enjoying this benefit at no charge.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thing is, Disney has decided (probably correctly) that they've maxed out the amount they can squeeze from the average middle class citizen, so most of their offerings are now geared towards people with extra money to burn. If they stomp on a few average folks in the process, that's just part of the business model. It's too bad, but it is what it is. Dropping this not-insignificant money grab 3 weeks before people arrive is just the latest and most egregious example. The days of any decency in their business model seem to have evaporated under the current regime. We just have to accept it for what it is and roll with it.

I think you are correct.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Completely OT, but did someone not too long ago enumerate how the system is set up so that DVC essentially never actually pays dues on their points? I'm just curious and looking for clarification. I'll try to find it...

Correct. They agree to cover shortages and in exchange for that they do not pay dues. Basically if they really screw up the budgets they'll pay. If they don't then they won't. And if I understand correctly they could otherwise elect to pay dues but have not selected that option.

 

[crvetter]

1 - background - restaurant and work in tourism based area with large swings in seasons
2 - visits to BLT since it opened
3 - comments reported from staff there
4 - staffing levels
5 - offerings of the lounge
6 - the sheer length of time it's been open with no change other than finally opening to all members onsite.

My look at is less based on the number of people there when we've been there even if it has been quite busy but on everything else. Of course I do not see the books for it just as you don't so it's all a guess. The biggest thing is fixed costs. They certainly make money on the variable. I don't know these slow times other than opening or closing hours as every single time I've been there since they opened it to all members onsite I've had to stand in line for drinks. I don't doubt they make the majority of income during the hour(s) surrounding the fireworks. It's nice to have a restaurant or bar that is busy from opening to close but that isn't a necessity to make money either. There's money in booze. There's also money in eggs but they aren't open for breakfast.

Your reason you believe it doesn't make money beyond it being slow when you've been there or something else?

My reasons are similar to your reasons, just a different viewpoint/interpretation of them (just a disagreement on perspective but nothing is wrong with that). I just would consider a restaurant in my city, consider that restaurant was open for a few hours a day, and then during that time it sold some drinks during a subset period of time it was open, I would still think the same thing that the restaurant wasn't making money considering they have the large fixed costs to cover let alone salaries, etc? I personally would find this a poor business model. No matter the margins on booze there is still that large fixed cost to overcome, which doesn't change too much (aside from salaries) the longer or shorter a place is open.

Even if it does turn a profit it might not turn a profit that the parent corporation is happy with thus they could demand the changes, which would be above DVC. But I do agree and would like to see them expand offerings outside of just fireworks, breakfast is a great idea (but not sure it can handle stuff like that because of the kitchen setup).

Completely OT, but did someone not too long ago enumerate how the system is set up so that DVC essentially never actually pays dues on their points? I'm just curious and looking for clarification. I'll try to find it...

Correct. They agree to cover shortages and in exchange for that they do not pay dues. Basically if they really screw up the budgets they'll pay. If they don't then they won't.

They pay dues on the points they own, it's a common misreading of the guarantee. Regardless of that interpretation the Commercial Unit is treated differently per the POS in the way the dues are paid (it explicitly states they must share on the Common Expenses). They do not pay dues on the points they have to be sold. So the 2% they are required to hold (and any points they aren't actively trying to sell) they have to pay dues on and report doing so. I've attached the Budget for BLT to this post.

Some points from the budget that are evidence DVC pays dues

• From Page 3: Member Annual Dues Assessment: $21,815,384, which is $3.8054 per point, which implies 5,732,743 points (which agrees with reports on the number of points at BLT, https://*******.com/dvc-information/using-your-membership/dvc-points/total-points-at-each-resort/)
• From Page 5: "DVD retains no less than 2 percent of the total ownership interests in each unit declared in the Condominium and is responsible for annual dues with respect to its retained or unsold ownership interests. DVD has retained ownership interests equivalent to approximately 114,731 vacation points. In addition, DVD had unsold ownership interests equivalent to approximately 15,890 vacation points as of December 31, 2017. As of December 31, 2017, DVD owned the two commercial units. During the year ended December 31, 2017, DVD annual dues paid to the Association were $421,333."
  • This is the payment on points they owned (114,731) they didn't have to pay on the 15,890 that are unsold, which the guarantee excludes them from paying on
  • Also it states what I've highlighted too, DVD owns the commercial units not the association, which is another misconception on here.
  • This shows that there wasn't a deficit that DVC had to cover (per the guarantee) likely there was a surplus which per the Condo Meeting DVC added that the Capital Reserves
    • Language exists if there is a deficit for instance look at SSR (page 5), which I also added, and has this statement: "During the year ended December 31, 2017, DVD voluntarily subsidized the operations of the Association of the common expenses incurred in the amount of $142,774."

Edit: Apparently the site I linked is blocked on DIS.

 

[Airb330]

Sent email to DVC regarding my disappointment even though it doesn't affect me directly.

I did the same.

I thought it was a nice idea for DVC owners when I thought 25%-50% of the space would be used for the event and the remaining would be for BLT guests. This is just bad precedent and who knows what they do and how it could impact us all next.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

My reasons are similar to your reasons, just a different viewpoint/interpretation of them (just a disagreement on perspective but nothing is wrong with that). I just would consider a restaurant in my city, consider that restaurant was open for a few hours a day, and then during that time it sold some drinks during a subset period of time it was open, I would still think the same thing that the restaurant wasn't making money considering they have the large fixed costs to cover let alone salaries, etc? I personally would find this a poor business model. No matter the margins on booze there is still that large fixed cost to overcome, which doesn't change too much (aside from salaries) the longer or shorter a place is open.

Even if it does turn a profit it might not turn a profit that the parent corporation is happy with thus they could demand the changes, which would be above DVC. But I do agree and would like to see them expand offerings outside of just fireworks, breakfast is a great idea (but not sure it can handle stuff like that because of the kitchen setup).

It's a choice of what the purpose of the lounge is. TOTWL lounge would not exist except for BLT.