Top 10 Things that Annoy People who use Wheelchairs

[ratlenhum]

Also, my Mother uses a WC while traveling due to mobility issues but not confined to it, but when we stop at a Rest Area she leaves it in the car and walks in to the best of her ability (which after sitting in the car for a couple of hours, is less than normal) and she HAS to use the HC stall for the railings. My biggest gripe is.. why do 98% of the rest areas put the HC stall all the way down the long row of stalls to the very end... and there is usually only 1 compared to 20 regular stalls. My Mother has a hard time getting to this stall.

I have RA and while I may not look like I am HC, those railings sure do make it much easier for me to stand back up. And the higher toilet helps too.

 

[LilyWDW]

I guess the architect thinks that will make it less popular/less likely to be used?

why do 98% of the rest areas put the HC stall all the way down the long row of stalls to the very end... and there is usually only 1 compared to 20 regular stalls

Let me try and answer this...

Designing HC stalls is not an easy task. They are supposed to have wider doors, enough width to accommodate the extra grab bars, and enough floor space to accommodate a wheelchair. Usually public restrooms are built back to back/men's to women's (aka if you walk into the men's room the stalls are to the left and if you then walked into the women's the stalls are on your right). This is the minimize the amount of plumbing required.

A HC stall should be a MIN 3'0" width of clear space and 4'8" MIN depth of clear space (preferred 5' even). The door width must be a MIN of 2'8" wide to accommodate a wheelchair. This is for a front transfer. To accommodate a side transfer you have a MIN width changing to 5' of clear space. Most designers I have worked with with use a stall made to accommodate the side transfer since it will also be fine for a front transfer.

This means this stall will take up the space of nearly 2 normal stalls. The plumbing though still has to match up. So the toilet will usually be situated to the left side of the stall (when looking at it straight on) since the partition will be in the spot of the other plumbing hook up.

If you add anything else into the stall like a sink or changing table, then you have to deal with now adding additional clear floor space usually meaning you have to increase the length, which then eats into the clearance outside the stall and for the door. Thus you end up having to do the stalls that eat up the whole back wall with the door to the side. In this case they HAVE to be all the way to the back because the literally take up a HUGE chunk of space in the restrooms. Honestly, most of the time the enlarged stalls just FIT better that way. Plus, the extra grab bar then has a solid wall and not just a partition to be anchored to. I once visited for research a restroom that had grab bars on the partitions... not the sturdiest things in the world.

Trust me, it is NOT easy to do a public bathroom layout with all the different requirements.

The number of total stalls is regulated by the buildings occupancy... we HAVE to meet those standards. As a designer, it comes down to space. If you have room for 6 toilet hookups, 1 HC stall will take 2 of those. So you end up with 1 HC and 4 reg (5 total). If you upped that to 2 HC stalls then you would then be reduced to only 2 reg stalls (4 total). So, if I have 6 hook ups, but have to have 5 toilets, there is no way to have a second HC stall without a full plumbing refit.

Hope that all makes some sense!

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

OK, it's official. I'm not 'average'. Not all of this list is on my 'annoyance short list', nor is my list 10 items long. And yet, I miss one annoyance on this list.


For me it all depends on my mood. If it's bad; I'll notice all on the list and be annoyed by it like heck. If my mood is in it's regular state; most tend not to bother me. Heck, odds are such I probably wont even notice. It also depends on the who, when, where, how etc. I can stomach an amazing deal under the right circumstances.

 

[KPeveler]

What annoys me are the people who think that my disability goes away when i get home... like when people want to change the entire federal law system for buses JUST to make disney better for THEM.

also, I think the reason the HA stall is down the end is so that people who do not need it don't take it b/c it is the closest...

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Let me try and answer this...

Designing HC stalls is not an easy task. They are supposed to have wider doors, enough width to accommodate the extra grab bars, and enough floor space to accommodate a wheelchair. Usually public restrooms are built back to back/men's to women's (aka if you walk into the men's room the stalls are to the left and if you then walked into the women's the stalls are on your right). This is the minimize the amount of plumbing required.

A HC stall should be a MIN 3'0" width of clear space and 4'8" MIN depth of clear space (preferred 5' even). The door width must be a MIN of 2'8" wide to accommodate a wheelchair. This is for a front transfer. To accommodate a side transfer you have a MIN width changing to 5' of clear space. Most designers I have worked with with use a stall made to accommodate the side transfer since it will also be fine for a front transfer.

This means this stall will take up the space of nearly 2 normal stalls. The plumbing though still has to match up. So the toilet will usually be situated to the left side of the stall (when looking at it straight on) since the partition will be in the spot of the other plumbing hook up.

If you add anything else into the stall like a sink or changing table, then you have to deal with now adding additional clear floor space usually meaning you have to increase the length, which then eats into the clearance outside the stall and for the door. Thus you end up having to do the stalls that eat up the whole back wall with the door to the side. In this case they HAVE to be all the way to the back because the literally take up a HUGE chunk of space in the restrooms. Honestly, most of the time the enlarged stalls just FIT better that way. Plus, the extra grab bar then has a solid wall and not just a partition to be anchored to. I once visited for research a restroom that had grab bars on the partitions... not the sturdiest things in the world.

Trust me, it is NOT easy to do a public bathroom layout with all the different requirements.

The number of total stalls is regulated by the buildings occupancy... we HAVE to meet those standards. As a designer, it comes down to space. If you have room for 6 toilet hookups, 1 HC stall will take 2 of those. So you end up with 1 HC and 4 reg (5 total). If you upped that to 2 HC stalls then you would then be reduced to only 2 reg stalls (4 total). So, if I have 6 hook ups, but have to have 5 toilets, there is no way to have a second HC stall without a full plumbing refit.

Hope that all makes some sense!

Eventhough our neck of the wood doesn't have much legislation on this subject, of course when drawing up plans we run into many of the same logistic problems. That's why most of our architects simply put them in a seperate area (just like for instance women and mens are seperated).

 

[Stag]

I try to avoid public bathrooms at most, if not all, costs, but when it comes down to it and there's no family/companion bathroom available, I'll use the accessible stall.

It's hard to fit me AND my service dog in one of the regular stalls and she ends up crushing against me usually, and depending on how dizzy I am that day, it's often easier to have the grab rails there so I don't end up toppling over when I stand up. But if there was someone who needed it more than me I certainly would try a regular stall or just wait.

 

[Mary976]

DD does not like when people lean on her chair. Or try to push her or adjust the chair. Maybe worst of all, when she transfers somewhere and then someone moves her chair away from her without asking.

Her other complaint is that she always has to crane her neck to look at people, even in situations where the other person could sit down to talk to her. Oh and she hates looking at people's rear ends all the time, but I suppose that just can't be helped!

Mary

 

[lovetoscrap]

Thanks for that great explanation LillyWDW, very informative. I never thought about the fact that having a grab bar on a solid wall is much better than on the partition.

I always sort of thought that part of the reason they were at the end was for privacy because I have often seen those that need assistance from a companion not able to completely shut the door or have to have someone go in and out while helping them and that is certainly more convenient and private all the way at the end rather than as the first stall where everyone walking by and you have no privacy.

 

[chaoslobster]

Hahaha... some amusing things in this thread. The one issue I haven't seen mentioned that I find aggravating as heck is when people block the curb ramps. At Disney -- even when the park isn't too crowded, for whatever reason the corners of sidewalks seem to be the favorite place for groups to stop for a moment and chat, but that's also right where the curb cut tends to be. I can't count how many times I've taken my scooter down a near-empty sidewalk only to come across five people and a stroller hanging around on the street corner. Standing right where the ramp down from the sidewalk is. Then I have to come right up near them and wait for a moment for somebody to move, and if no one notices what the problem is I sort of clear my throat really loudly or "Excuse me, please!" and just hope they can even hear me, because as we all know, people in scooters\chairs are invisible!

Not at Disney it's even worse because all too often what happens is some idiot parks a car right across the curb ramp. If there's a line of cars parked alongside a sidewalk somewhere, maybe they just don't notice that taking the next spot in line will put their car right in front of the curb ramp, though the area is usually outlined in bright blue as it's illegal to park there. Or perhaps they just don't care, but it's incredibly frustrating when I now have to take the scooter in an adventure circling 'round the building trying to find another place where I can get up onto the sidewalk. This used to happen all the time on my college campus and I took great glee in whipping out my cell phone to call Campus Security and have the offending car ticketed.

 

[ShhhQ]

I know this is slightly ot... but I have a related gripe.

As I stated in a pp... my Mother has mobility issues and while she doesn't use a wc all the time, she is still considered handicap and DOES have the parking tag. I notice a lot of public places... usually restaurants, but used to live in an apartment complex that did this... they put the hc parking spaces the furthest from the door. They are able to get away with this by putting the access ramp at the end. However, having a hc placard does not mean you are necessarily in a wc.. it means you have an issue that makes it harder for you to get into the building and sometimes that means you CAN'T walk longer distances.

 

[LilyWDW]

I know this is slightly ot... but I have a related gripe.

As I stated in a pp... my Mother has mobility issues and while she doesn't use a wc all the time, she is still considered handicap and DOES have the parking tag. I notice a lot of public places... usually restaurants, but used to live in an apartment complex that did this... they put the hc parking spaces the furthest from the door. They are able to get away with this by putting the access ramp at the end. However, having a hc placard does not mean you are necessarily in a wc.. it means you have an issue that makes it harder for you to get into the building and sometimes that means you CAN'T walk longer distances.

The HC parking spaces are not required to be the closest spots. Instead, they are designed to get the person out of the flow of traffic the quickest way possible. This could mean that the spot is at the end of a set of parking spots because this is the best and safest place for them. The only ADA code that I know of for parking spaces (noting I don't do a lot of design like that) is for curb ramp measurements, dimensions of the spot, and size of the access aisle.

And for those who are wondering, I am getting my information from the Time Saver Standards For Interior Design and Space Planning 2nd edition. I am using the ADA requirements section within the book.

 

[sldmh5]

I think the biggest complaint I have is that my wonderful son who is age 10 and uses a wheelchair to get around due to CP who is perfect to us does NOT need to be healed. I am so tired of people coming up to him to put their hands on him without asking to heal him of his affliction. Another one is those older folks at Wal-Mart on the 1st of each month (so I try my best to avoid going during that time frame) that tell me if I did not drink or smoke while I was carrying him he would not be "retarded or handicap" (his CP was birth trama from a doctor accident-I do not smoke or drink)

The other favorite is parking in a h/c spot with little guy and his wheelchair and while I was lifting him into his chair an elderly lady started yelling at me for parking in a h/c spot because my son was to young to need that spot. She caught me on a bad day because usually I let it slide but...it was a bad day due to son being sick and needing to get meds and my husband being deployed and she scared my son and he was crying...I turned around to look at her and said "you are not using a walker or a wheelchair so your disability is not physical, you are yelling at me so your disability is not your heart or lungs, so that only leaves stupidity as your disability and unlike my son who has the ability to learn and obtain more function your disability will never get any better." She was just stuttering when I walked off.

 

[NOLA_Tink]

This has been mentioned, but it's still vivid in my mind:
The park is closing & there's a mass exodus out. Everyone is crowded together & the person in front of you keeps coming to a haulting stop for no apparent reason, over and over. Thank goodness we never bumped into them (b/c I could only imagine the comments/look we would have gotten), but we had a few close calls. Grrrrrr!

 

[lizzyb5280]

The other favorite is parking in a h/c spot with little guy and his wheelchair and while I was lifting him into his chair an elderly lady started yelling at me for parking in a h/c spot because my son was to young to need that spot. She caught me on a bad day because usually I let it slide but...it was a bad day due to son being sick and needing to get meds and my husband being deployed and she scared my son and he was crying...I turned around to look at her and said "you are not using a walker or a wheelchair so your disability is not physical, you are yelling at me so your disability is not your heart or lungs, so that only leaves stupidity as your disability and unlike my son who has the ability to learn and obtain more function your disability will never get any better." She was just stuttering when I walked off.

Reminds me of something that happened to me in my early 20's. Before I was permanently disabled, I went through a bout of temporary disability, during which I evolved from being totally paralyzed to eventually getting 90% of my motor function back. About midway through the process (I no longer was wearing braces, and needed two canes to walk) I was taking a public bus home after a rather frustrating PT session. I was seated in the very first seat on the bus, b/c the last thing someone with limited balance needs to do is walk down the aisle of a moving bus. I was one of the first on but it filled up quickly to standing room only. A woman in her 60s maybe got on and was forced to stand. Another gentleman - unknown to her or I - looked at me and said "Don't you think you should let her sit down?" After telling him I didn't think that would be a good idea, he asked me why. I held up my two canes and said to him - "Because these are mine. If I can't stand up on a flat, non-moving surface, I really don't think I can stand up on a moving bus." He didn't say a word to me the rest of the ride.

(Side note: having gone through this bout of temporary disability at only 21, I am quite sympathetic to the fact that not all disabilities are clearly visible, and do my best not to judge restroom or parking use. But there are some people who are pretty blatant in their disregard.)

Also, I've seen quite a few people give us funny looks when two healthy looking people in their late twenties (yikes! I'm 30 now!) pull into a handicap parking space. Then they see my DH take my wheelchair out and lift me out of our truck, and they sheepishly turn their heads. Also, while DH never parks in a HC spot by himself, he often will if I'm staying in the truck and he's running in, just in case I should have to get out and come in on my own. I know it may not look like we need it, but with the bladder of a paraplegic, there's no telling when I'm gonna turn into something out of a commercial for overactive bladder meds. "Gotta go, gotta go, gotta go right now!"

 

[POOHsie]

...The other thing is handicapped stalls that aren't big enough to fit a wheelchair in. UGH!

I have been in some HC stalls at Magic Kingdom that won't fit my scooter, I think over by POTC. They are longer in length, but hardly wider. I have to leave the door open. At least the stall is down at the end. My daughter keeps "modesty guard" for me.

 

[BelleRocks]

As we often remind others, please remember that you may have no idea if that person coming out is able-bodied or not. I look perfectly normal but depending on how my hip or my back is feeling that day or even my feet I may need the grab bars to help steady myself to get back up. If I don't have my scooter with me or left it outside the bathroom you won't realize that I was using that stall for a reason. Many people with knee, hip and back problems are fine walking around but sitting for a few minutes can make things stiffen up and need the grab bars to help them up.

Thank you for this. My mom has two hip replacements and severe arthritis. She has handicapped plates on her car, and has gotten the dirtiest looks and comments from people because she is somewhat mobile so they think she is not h/c.

 

[peemagg]

I have a couple of pet peeves. First of all I don't use a wheelchair, but do need a scooter occasionally depending on how long I need to stand or how far I need to walk. I do use a cane also.

My first pet peeve is when there are like 60 parking spaces in a lot and only one of them are handicapped accessible. Then it seems like that that one spot is taken up by someone who doesn't need it. There is usually 2 people in the car and the one that hops out of the vehicle almost runs in. The one who might have legitimate need of the space, is left in the car waiting. Now I understand as another poster pointed out that there may be a need for them to possibly have to get out, but 9 times out of 10 that does not seem to be the case. I have even seen some people park there with no handicap (I knew who the plate and car was registered to. They weren't even in the car) and go into the store, just because the vehicle they were in had a handicapped plate or sticker.

My other pet peeve is when people use my scooter to lean on. I can understand family and friends possibly leaning on it, but I have had strangers lean on it and get mad at me for pulling away. How dare I! Didn't I see they were leaning heavily on that! Yep, I did! That's why I moved.

 

[D-ko]

.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The HC parking spaces are not required to be the closest spots. Instead, they are designed to get the person out of the flow of traffic the quickest way possible. This could mean that the spot is at the end of a set of parking spots because this is the best and safest place for them. The only ADA code that I know of for parking spaces (noting I don't do a lot of design like that) is for curb ramp measurements, dimensions of the spot, and size of the access aisle.

And for those who are wondering, I am getting my information from the Time Saver Standards For Interior Design and Space Planning 2nd edition. I am using the ADA requirements section within the book.

Lily - the information you have and share is simply astounding. Will you please be my new best friend? I mean, I knew the "out of the flow of traffic" requirement - in fact, recently a woman here trying to park in a handicap space directly in front of a medical office at the curb cut instead drove INTO the office... because there was no curb to stop her - but the bathroom design information is wonderful.

Is there anything else you can share with us?

Ronda

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think the biggest complaint I have is that my wonderful son who is age 10 and uses a wheelchair to get around due to CP who is perfect to us does NOT need to be healed. I am so tired of people coming up to him to put their hands on him without asking to heal him of his affliction.

Ewww! I'd start shrieking, "Get your filthy hands off my son, you pervert!" I mean, I'm sure they have good intentions, but first, NOBODY should be touching your child (or anyone) without express permission, second as you say, he doesn't need to BE 'healed', and third, they need to keep their filthy hands off your son. Ewww!

disclaimer: "filthy" hands is just an expression; I'm sure their hands are clean but their actions are unsettling.