Tonight on PBS - Walt Disney: Triumph of the American Imagination

[minnie mum]

I was a bit surprised that it seems this other animator I'd never heard mentioned before seems to be the actual hand that refined Mickey into the Mouse we know,

I'm surprised you had never heard of Ub Iwerks. He was the first of the long list of master animators who worked for Disney. They started out together in Kansas City and Ub went with him thru the early Alice pictures, Mickey cartoons and Silly Symphonies. They did have a falling out and Ub left Disney for over a decade, before returning to work on Song of the South. He even worked on design aspects of DLR.

Walt was a great man, and certainly a visionary in many ways. But he was no Leonardo da Vinci. Most of the finished products we know, including the major characters were the result of collaboration. They didn't get handed down from Walt as a fully realized entity. Even Mickey Mouse has been changed over the years by other Disney artists.

I'm really looking forward to the second half of the documentary.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I enjoyed watching this morning (on DVR). It was kind of sad to learn more of the "dark side" stuff (I was aware of some, but not all) but I loved the parts about the technical innovation. I really do think he tried to do the right thing, but between his upbringing and us looking at it through the lens of our own times, they're definitely showing that he fell short in some areas. So far, though, I think the good stuff outweighs the bad. He really did give us a lot, and I can't wait for the next part with the theme parks!

 

[alicat8]

I have to finish it tonight, but I saw the first 1.5. I wasn't surprised by much of what I heard (I've definitely read about the way he treated his employees/the ink and paint girls and his relationship with his father).

I was surprised that in my reading I somehow missed his stories about his children and family. I never knew about the miscarriage helping lead to the breakdown and doctor ordered vacation. (At least thats how they made it seem) I never knew he wanted 10 children and I never knew Sharon was adopted! Makes me wonder how much Lillian struggled with child bearing (I'm probably projecting a little, haha!) Those scenes of him with the girls killed me though-just so sweet!

I guess most of what I've read has been a very basic family history, focusing more on stories directly related to his work.

I somehow also missed that the Snow White awards weren't "legit" Oscars. I always thought they were but realize now that without winning "best picture" there wouldn't have been an appropriate category. I love how the woman who talked about it called it "crap".

I think I'll go watch the last half hour now while I'm home alone! So glad it's online. 11 is way past bedtime!

 

[Deb in IA]

I agree with many comments here. I do think the Walt Disney Company party line, while not exactly lying, gave certainly a different spin on many of the stories about Walt that we have all heard, like the story that he and Lillian came up with Mickey pretty much single handedly on their train trip back from NYC. While I knew about Ub Iwerks, I always just thought of him as one of the "7 old men" and didn't know he was so instrumental in Mickey's character develoment.

I learned a few things from his personal life that I didn't know before. I didn't know that much about his breakdown after Lillian's miscarriage. I also didn't know that his parents had carbon monoxide poisoning from the house Walt and Roy purchased for them for their 50th anniversary, and that was what killed Flora, his mom.

 

[lucas]

Some new tidbits I picked up last night:

Walt had other siblings besides Roy.
He named his company the Walt Disney Company instead of Disney Brothers.
The man who created Goofy helped organize the striking workers.

Looking forward to tonight's show.

 

[Big V]

I haven't seen any of it yet, but now I can't wait! I have it DVR'rd and will watch it when I'm alone and concentrate.

 

[Dentam]

Wow, I am learning so much from this documentary. Communist craziness, labor unions, Song of the South fall out... wow.

ETA: Okay, the entire part about dreaming up Disneyland and the footage of opening day are amazing! And we think crowds are bad now!!

 

[carmelhp]

I've always considered Walt Disney as a pretty shrewd business man, but this program has made me really, really like Walt Disney as a fallible, hardworking, optimistic, fatherly person who really loved people and doted on his children. I think he was a really good guy and wished I could have known him.

 

[alicat8]

Wow, I am learning so much from this documentary. Communist craziness, labor unions, Song of the South fall out... wow.

ETA: Okay, the entire part about dreaming up Disneyland and the footage of opening day are amazing! And we think crowds are bad now!!

I think those accidental opening day crowds are much smaller than the numbers they let in on purpose today, haha!

I saw 2 minutes of last night before I fell asleep. The good thing is I get to watch it later!

 

[cabanafrau]

Haven't finished all of second episode, but so far what struck me the most on night two is the decisions Walt apparently made about Song of the South. I had very different assumptions and have to say I'm a bit nonplussed about what was presented, the details of which by their very nature appear to be an accurate representation of the facts.

 

[Geoff_M]

Wow, I am learning so much from this documentary. Communist craziness, labor unions, Song of the South fall out... wow.

Generally speaking, I think the coverage of these topics was fair but I did have one big beef with the segment on SoTS. While the documentary did correctly state early on that the film was "set after the Civil War", they then later went on and twice repeated the common fallacy that the film showed the relationship between "slaves and their masters". Once in quoting the initial NY Times review that was hostile to the film and then a 2nd time in the narration when summarizing the film at the end of the segment. Wrong, wrong, wrong. While I think you can argue that Disney was "tone deaf" when it came to the social realities brewing in the South at the time the film was released as well as some of the common stereotypes in the film that weren't helpful, as well as the poor decision to debut the film in a segregated theater in Atlanta, the film did not contain "slaves" and "masters". I also wish in describing the subject of the film they would have mentioned that at its core the film was about the warm friendship between a former slave and the white grandson of the farm owner. And while it certainly depicts an idealized vision of the Reconstruction-era South, as the documentary mentioned over and over "idealized" was at the core of what Walt Disney was all about (as is his former company today). For example, does anyone really think that The Princess & the Frog was an accurate depiction of race relations in 1920's New Orleans???

Other things I was struck with by the episode last night:
- My impressions of his relationship with his father was cemented by the fact that he blew off his funeral.
- The personal "crisis" he felt when he thought that he'd peaked with Snow White.
- The realization of the part that Walt's model train played as the "springboard" that led him to the idea of Disneyland. (It was also cool seeing film footage of the two miniature train cars from the C.P.R.R. that are now on display in the side-room of the lobby at the Villas at Wilderness Lodge!)

 

[cabanafrau]

Generally speaking, I think the coverage of these topics was fair but I did have one big beef with the segment on SoTS. While the documentary did correctly state early on that the film was "set after the Civil War", they then later went on and twice repeated the common fallacy that the film showed the relationship between "slaves and their masters". Once in quoting the initial NY Times review that was hostile to the film and then a 2nd time in the narration when summarizing the film at the end of the segment. Wrong, wrong, wrong. While I think you can argue that Disney was "tone deaf" when it came to the social realities brewing in the South at the time the film was released as well as some of the common stereotypes in the film that weren't helpful, as well as the poor decision to debut the film in a segregated theater in Atlanta, the film did not contain "slaves" and "masters". I also wish in describing the subject of the film they would have mentioned that at its core the film was about the warm friendship between a former slave and the white grandson of the farm owner. And while it certainly depicts an idealized vision of the Reconstruction-era South, as the documentary mentioned over and over "idealized" was at the core of what Walt Disney was all about (as is his former company today). For example, does anyone really think that The Princess & the Frog was an accurate depiction of race relations in 1920's New Orleans???

Other things I was struck with by the episode last night:
- My impressions of his relationship with his father was cemented by the fact that he blew off his funeral.
- The personal "crisis" he felt when he thought that he'd peaked with Snow White.
- The realization of the part that Walt's model train played as the "springboard" that led him to the idea of Disneyland. (It was also cool seeing film footage of the two miniature train cars from the C.P.R.R. that are now on display in the side-room of the lobby at the Villas at Wilderness Lodge!)

But you've also hit on exactly what I found jarring about the production of Song of the South -- Walt made some interesting choices despite consulting with leaders of the African American community, choices that intentionally flew in the face of their recommendations. The choice to premiere in Atlanta belied any idealizations the movie ostensibly portrayed.

 

[Geoff_M]

But you've also hit on exactly what I found jarring about the production of Song of the South -- Walt made some interesting choices despite consulting with leaders of the African American community, choices that intentionally flew in the face of their recommendations. The choice to premiere in Atlanta belied any idealizations the movie ostensibly portrayed.

I don't want to rehash the whole SoTS thing again, but I'd add that the over and over the documentary made it clear that Walt Disney following his own instincts versus the opinions of others was standard practice for him and it part of what drove him. This project was no different.

 

[cabanafrau]

I don't want to rehash the whole SoTS thing again, but I'd add that the over and over the documentary made it clear that Walt Disney following his own instincts versus the opinions of others was standard practice for him and it part of what drove him. This project was no different.

I think you're missing my point. I had always viewed Song of the South as simply being the product of a different time, which it is. I now look at it differently knowing he specifically sought out the input and then acted directly opposite.

I don't need to canonize him to appreciate his talents.

 

[Geoff_M]

I think you're missing my point. I had always viewed Song of the South as simply being the product of a different time, which it is. I now look at it differently knowing he specifically sought out the input and then acted directly opposite.

I don't need to canonize him to appreciate his talents.

I agree there's no need to canonize him. And I agree that it's unfortunate that he didn't give more weight to the advice of others in this case, and I agree that Walt was most certainly a product of his time (as I mentioned earlier with regard to the wages he paid the women that were in the lower skilled positions). I just wanted to point out that his treatment of this film was not unique because of the subject matter... on top of the fact that it irked me that they repeated the whole "slave/master" fallacy.

 

[carmelhp]

I'm not sure what Disney was supposed to do with the story. Not make it? Have Uncle Remus be a civil rights protester, or have Klan raids partway though the film? What would have satisfied critics, then or now? It was set in the post-Reconstruction period and was a story about fantasy and whimsy. I don't know how it could be changed to be made politically correct.

 

[Geoff_M]

I'm not sure what Disney was supposed to do with the story. Not make it?

I'm not sure if you watched last night, but they highlighted that one bit of feedback that Walt ignored was the advice to avoid the inclusion of African Americans singing while working in the fields (i.e. the so-called "happy slave" stereotype). Instead, he included a couple of "filler" scenes of groups of such farmhands walking home from the fields at sundown, tools in hand, and singing "Negro work songs". It didn't include any of the movies characters, and added nothing to the film plot, quite frankly. It was the sort of thing that Mel Brooks spoofed so well in Blazing Saddles.

 

[cabanafrau]

Finished watching episode two last night and I found it so unusual that the subject of the World's Fair never came up. Didn't even occur to me the night before watching the part about his obsession with the trains and then moving into the idea for and construction of Disneyland that there wasn't even a single mention of the World's Fair endeavors.

 

[alicat8]

I'm home sick today and going to watch part 2 right now.
cabanafrfau-if you're interested, I bought this fair documentary and loved it. Not exclusively Disney, but I thought the whole thing was fascinating.
http://worldsfairmovie.com/

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm home sick today and going to watch part 2 right now.
cabanafrfau-if you're interested, I bought this fair documentary and loved it. Not exclusively Disney, but I thought the whole thing was fascinating.
http://worldsfairmovie.com/

Thank you, I'll have to check that out. It's an interesting topic even without the Disney angle.