Toddler "leashes"

[Belle5]

Wow! The lightbulb really went off in my head during this thread. I feel as if I've had a revelation! I had never thought of the fact that my child's stroller with a 5 point harness restraint is actually more restraining than taking that same kind of harness and letting him have the "freedom" to walk or run!

 

[CleveRocks]

Guess my children's pediatrician does not know what he is talking about, or care for my child's well being! He recommended for us to go out and get a harness for our 20 month old, because she has developed the habit of randomly running off at top speed, generally when we have turned to say something to our 4 year old. When you are alone with two young kids, what are you supposed to do? Never leave the house for fear of having to ditch your older child to chase your younger, or potentially lose them in a crowd?

Would that be somehow less harmful than a harness? Somehow, I doubt it. So, to all of you who disapprove, I have a Dr.'s note. Does that make it better in your eyes?

Smart, well-trained, well-meaning pediatricians can disagree with each other, too. I know, because I'm married to one, and she has 8 partners and we all often talk amongst ourselves about their different styles, approaches, and attitudes.

Because of my wife's demanding job and long hours, I'm often with my two kids myself, so it's not like I'm talking about what can be done THEORETICALLY but have no idea about real-world situations (my 3 year old daughter has two speeds -- FAST and asleep). Of course I didn't take my kids to WDW by myself, but I do an awful lot with just the two of them and me, so believe me, I know what it's like. There are times I LONG for something like a leash and harness to make my life easier, but I just can't stand the idea of it. I'd rather run myself ragged and be more stressed (on the inside), but still expose my kids to all of the appropriate experiences and environments. My choice.

And for the record, I just asked my wife about the subject. I know how she feels as a Mom, but I asked her professional opinion. She told me she doesn't talk down harnesses and leashes and has at times actually recommended them for parents whom she felt needed that extra bit of assistance. So even though on a personal level she abhors the use of such devices every bit as much as I do, as a pediatrician she is OK with it if she feels the parents could not safely handle the situation otherwise, physicially, emotionally, or both.

-- Eric

 

[CleveRocks]

I find it amazing that people have no problem with strapping a child in to a stroller (far more physically restraining), but cringe at the idea of a leash.

Interesting thought, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. The purpose of a stroller is transportation, and a seatbelt/harness makes that transportation safe. In contrast, the purpose of a leash and harness IS restraint.

Most people agree that strollers are necessary when there is a lot of distance to cover, especially when a child reaches the size/age when a sling or "backpack" wouldn't be practical (although I must admit I've never used either). SO, if a stroller is necessary, then the five-point harness is a necessary safety device to keep the child from being ejected due to sudden deceleration, or to keep the child from jumping out while, for example, you're crossing a street or in a busy parking lot.

But wait, you say, since a leash and harness are used for safety purposes, also, then why isn't that the same thing as the seat belt/harness on a stroller? My response is that if I'm pushing a stroller it would be physically impossible for me, walking behind the stroller, to simultaneously prevent my child from being ejected from the stroller or from jumping out. But I know from years of experience with my 5.5 year old and 3 year old that I can safely keep track of them in crowded and chaotic environments without requiring a leash and harness but simultaneously allow them to explore their surroundings on their own terms, learn some autonomy, and satisfy their curious little minds. It's difficult, but hardly Herculean.

Toys R' Us in Times Square on a December Saturday afternoon? Been there, by myself with the two kids. July 4th on an Atlantic City-area beach teeming with wall-to-wall people? Been there, by myself with the two kids. Sold-out baseball games? Been there, by myself with the two kids. Too many other places to name? Been there, by myself with the two kids. So now, after at least two years with two kids old enough to walk and RUN, they're both upstairs sleeping soundly and safely like little angels. We made it all this time safely, without the use of devices I find dehumanizing.

So how come I can do it all without using a leash and harness and many others of you can't? Am I that much stronger, physically or mentally? I highly doubt that. Do I love my kids more than you do? No way! It's just that because I don't even see using a leash and harness as an option, I make do by being more vigilant and expending more cognitive and physical energy. Does that make me better? No way! Just different.

-- Eric

 

[iliketoby]

Interesting thought, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. The purpose of a stroller is transportation, and a seatbelt/harness makes that transportation safe. In contrast, the purpose of a leash and harness IS restraint.[/FONT]

Transportation, my patootie. Walking is transportation, too. The purpose of the stroller is to have a place to stick your kid so that you don't have to watch or carry them when you're busy and/or they're too tired to walk. And I'll repeat that it is far more restraining than a leash. The reason shouldn't matter. If you're against restraints then have to be against restraints.

Most people agree

When I was 20 I cared what "most people" thought. Now I don't.

My response is that if I'm pushing a stroller it would be physically impossible for me, walking behind the stroller, to simultaneously prevent my child from being ejected from the stroller or from jumping out.

Again, I say that if you're against restraints, you should get those kids out of the unsafe stroller. Hold their dear little hands or pick them up.

We made it all this time safely, without the use of devices I find dehumanizing.[/FONT]

Nobody said it couldn't be done. I raised three (two of 'em twins) without the leash. Doesn't mean a thing.

I make do by being more vigilant and expending more cognitive and physical energy.

You aren't more vigilant, you're just restraining your kid in a different way. Don't need to expend a whole lot of cognitive energy to figure that one out.

Does that make me better? No way! Just different.

Gotta agree with you on that one!

-- Eric [/QUOTE]


Also, why are you CleveRocks if you're from Atlantic city? Not picking on ya here, just curious.

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

Is not forcing your child to hold your hand, when they want to pull away and run off, restraining them?

Is not strapping them inot a stroller because it's easier for you (and let's be honest, that's more often the case than for transportation!) restraining them?

Is not putting your child in the seat of a shopping cart restraining them?

Is not picking your child up and carrying them when they want to walk/run restraining them?

So the difference with a harness is?........................

 

[lil.disney.princess]

exactly tiggernut!!

if a harness or reins or leash whatever you call them saves a child (and its parent)the distress of being accidentally separated in a busy jostling crowd then its money well spent in my eyes!!

 

[Schmeck]

Harnesses shouldn't allow your child to 'roam' as someone mentioned in a previous post - that's way too dangerous! That harness should keep your child within your immediate reach, or else that child is not safe at all!

 

[CleveRocks]

Interesting thought, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. The purpose of a stroller is transportation, and a seatbelt/harness makes that transportation safe. In contrast, the purpose of a leash and harness IS restraint.[/FONT]

Transportation, my patootie. Walking is transportation, too. The purpose of the stroller is to have a place to stick your kid so that you don't have to watch or carry them when you're busy and/or they're too tired to walk. And I'll repeat that it is far more restraining than a leash. The reason shouldn't matter. If you're against restraints then have to be against restraints.

I disagree. My opinion is that a leash and harness is degrading and dehumanizing, whereas watching and redirecting my toddler is not degrading and dehumanizing, and carrying or holding the hand of my toddler is not degrading and dehumanizing. Some form of restraint is often necessary. We are parents. We are adults. We know better than they do, and it's our responsibility to keep our kids safe, which includes teaching them how to be safe. So I respectfully disagree with your argument that if I'm against a leash and harness than I have to be against all restraints. That's like saying that if I'm against cruel and unusual punishment of prisoners that I then have to be against ANY punishment of prisoners (I'm defining incarceration of any kind as punishment). So if I don't think prisoners should be tortured that means I don't think they should be locked in prisons at all? Not hardly.

Most people agree

When I was 20 I cared what "most people" thought. Now I don't.

I used that line to establish the beginning of a logical argument, not to establish that I care what others think of my parenting practices. You misunderstood that line. Please reread my earlier posts when I posit that none of us as parents should parent as others see fit, only as we ourselves see fit. But, a respectful exchange of ideas in a forum such as this is a good and healthy thing, 'cause it helps us understand each other better even if we disagree.

My response is that if I'm pushing a stroller it would be physically impossible for me, walking behind the stroller, to simultaneously prevent my child from being ejected from the stroller or from jumping out.

Again, I say that if you're against restraints, you should get those kids out of the unsafe stroller. Hold their dear little hands or pick them up.

As I said earlier, most people would agree that sometimes strollers are necessary for transportation. If I didn't have a stroller to TRANSPORT my kids in Manhattan or for a week in WDW, my kids wouldn't be able to be exposed to and enjoy such environments because I'd be physically unable to carry them over such great distances, especially on a day-by-day basis. So if I didn't use a stroller in such environments and situations, they wouldn't be able to be in those environments and situations in the first place. And that would be a shame. I think their lives are better for their positive experiences and their exposure to events and places that I/we take them.

I make do by being more vigilant and expending more cognitive and physical energy.
You aren't more vigilant, you're just restraining your kid in a different way. Don't need to expend a whole lot of cognitive energy to figure that one out.

Again, as responsible parents we need to supervise our kids, and do what is necessary for their safety and enjoyment, as well as the safety and enjoyment of others. Verbally and physically redirecting my kids, carrying them, holding their hands, transporting (the 3 year old) in a stroller -- to me those acts are not degrading or dehumanizing, but IMHO, putting them on a leash is degrading and dehumanizing. Look, I think using a leash and harness to keep them safe is light years better than what I see a lot of parents do, which is not care about their kids at all. But I just think, FOR ME, it's a practice I can't stomach. As I've said numerous times before, a message board is a great place to express and exchange opinions, but I would NEVER tell a stranger in oublic my opinion. That would be rude and obnoxious.

Also, why are you CleveRocks if you're from Atlantic city? Not picking on ya here, just curious.

When I bought my first computer in 1996 and first signed onto AOL (back when AOL screennames had to be 10 characters or less), I was living in Cleveland Heights, Ohio. "Cleveland Rocks" is a song from the late-1970s, written and recorded by a Brit named Ian Hunter , a sort of anthem for the under 50s set that was briefly brought national attention as a theme song for The Drew Carey Show when it was covered by The Presidents of the United States of America. "Cleveland Rocks" is also an unofficial slogan of Cleveland. I only lived there 3 years, but my wife and I love Cleveland like nowhere else of the four cities and states we've lived in. Besides, Cleveland still rocks even though I don't live there anymore!

-- Eric

 

[GEM]

Here's who I feel sorry for - all those little ones being pushed around in those strollers! The poor little dears are being degraded and dehumanized! Why, they're being treated like . . . like . . . like . . . GROCERIES! Oh, the horror!! Those pitiful, negligent parents pushing their kids around in front of them in those little carts like gallons of milk or boxes of cereal. Any truly good parent would pick them right up and carry them - even if they have three or four of the little darlings! Put one under each arm, one on your back, one on your shoulders, one in your mouth . . . I could do that with no problem. If you can't, well, you must not be trying as hard as I am! Pushing them around for transportation is just lazy parenting!



Bottom line, do what works best for you and your family. I personally don't care what anybody else thinks, as long as they're smart enough to keep their mouth shut about it. I'm making lots of parenting choices that others might not, and I'm making those choices because I think they're right. Who cares what anybody else thinks? When they're giving you an opinion or advice, all they're really telling you is what works for THEM and what THEY believe. Who cares?? That information has nothing to do with me or my family.

 

[Teacher03]

Here's who I feel sorry for - all those little ones being pushed around in those strollers! The poor little dears are being degraded and dehumanized! Why, they're being treated like . . . like . . . like . . . GROCERIES! Oh, the horror!! Those pitiful, negligent parents pushing their kids around in front of them in those little carts like gallons of milk or boxes of cereal. Any truly good parent would pick them right up and carry them - even if they have three or four of the little darlings! Put one under each arm, one on your back, one on your shoulders . . . I could do that with no problem. If you can't, well, you must not be trying as hard as I am! Pushing them around for transportation is just lazy parenting!




That is too funny!

 

[lil.disney.princess]

absolutley Gem!!pmsl

 

[Belle5]

Here's who I feel sorry for - all those little ones being pushed around in those strollers! The poor little dears are being degraded and dehumanized! Why, they're being treated like . . . like . . . like . . . GROCERIES! Oh, the horror!! Those pitiful, negligent parents pushing their kids around in front of them in those little carts like gallons of milk or boxes of cereal. Any truly good parent would pick them right up and carry them - even if they have three or four of the little darlings! Put one under each arm, one on your back, one on your shoulders, one in your mouth . . . I could do that with no problem. If you can't, well, you must not be trying as hard as I am! Pushing them around for transportation is just lazy parenting!

 

[magicmato]

Here's who I feel sorry for - all those little ones being pushed around in those strollers! The poor little dears are being degraded and dehumanized! Why, they're being treated like . . . like . . . like . . . GROCERIES! Oh, the horror!! Those pitiful, negligent parents pushing their kids around in front of them in those little carts like gallons of milk or boxes of cereal. Any truly good parent would pick them right up and carry them - even if they have three or four of the little darlings! Put one under each arm, one on your back, one on your shoulders, one in your mouth . . . I could do that with no problem. If you can't, well, you must not be trying as hard as I am! Pushing them around for transportation is just lazy parenting!

You are too funny!

Bottom line, do what works best for you and your family. I personally don't care what anybody else thinks, as long as they're smart enough to keep their mouth shut about it. I'm making lots of parenting choices that others might not, and I'm making those choices because I think they're right. Who cares what anybody else thinks? When they're giving you an opinion or advice, all they're really telling you is what works for THEM and what THEY believe. Who cares?? That information has nothing to do with me or my family.

Exactly. And I am sure those very same people who are looking down their noses make choices that *we* would disapprove of! Every person is different and I never will understand why anyone feels that they have the right to sit there and try and make you feel as if you are less than them as a parent. *PLEASE!* ROFL. I have had so many people come up to me and say they can tell I love and truly care about my children and what a great mom I am. Guess they are wrong, all because I *gasp* very rarely use a harness in dangerous or crowded situations.

 

[CleveRocks]

Here's who I feel sorry for - all those little ones being pushed around in those strollers! The poor little dears are being degraded and dehumanized! Why, they're being treated like . . . like . . . like . . . GROCERIES! Oh, the horror!! Those pitiful, negligent parents pushing their kids around in front of them in those little carts like gallons of milk or boxes of cereal. Any truly good parent would pick them right up and carry them - even if they have three or four of the little darlings! Put one under each arm, one on your back, one on your shoulders, one in your mouth . . . I could do that with no problem. If you can't, well, you must not be trying as hard as I am! Pushing them around for transportation is just lazy parenting!

Good one!!! Shot me with my own gun there!

 

[melomouse]

DS,now 13,has Asperger's, goes on physical/sensory overload sometimes and is very struck by,and needs to comment on, anything unusual he sees in the parks - or anywhere else for that matter. He's not "rude" - tho it may seem that way - it's his disorder.
So this past trip early October - we ran into a male CM with a very "high", chirpy voice. DS asked why his voice was "falsetto". This led to further discussion about gender identity!
When DS also saw a toddler on a leash -(wristband type) - he was horrified and starting yelling, "MOM, MOM - Why is that baby on a LEASH???!!!" He reacted the same way the first time he saw a toddler get smacked in a supermarket.
Which do ya think I had an easier or harder time explaining??? AAH - the challenges of parenting!!!!

melomouse

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't *twitch* think I have suffered *twitch* any harmful side effects. *shudder*

LOL

 

[TENIA66]

To the individual who said hold their dear hands, well that's ok when you have two hands and two kids and aren't trying to hold anything else. however, three children present a safety problem which can easily be overcome with a harness. the harness offers the children to be in a setting which would otherwise be to dangerous, Enabling them to see more of the world, not restricting them. enabling them to be safer.

 

[Nancyg56]

So how come I can do it all without using a leash and harness and many others of you can't? Am I that much stronger, physically or mentally? I highly doubt that. Do I love my kids more than you do? No way! It's just that because I don't even see using a leash and harness as an option, I make do by being more vigilant and expending more cognitive and physical energy. Does that make me better? No way! Just different.

-- Eric

I'm not at all sure that I have seen any parent say that he or she cannot manage their children without a harness. I did see that most were more comfortable with one. If you feel that your kids are safe enough to take them places that are crowded and forgo a harness, fine. To actively assume that parents who feel that the child is safer with one is lazy is condescending. To assume that you are the more vigilant parent is arrogant. I di not use one for my children, and I am a very vigilant mother. As I said earlier in this thread, my little daughter was literally pulled from my sisters hand when doors to a show opened, and a flood of people crashed through. I would have never been able to survive losing her if a predator scooped her up because of the opportunity this presented.

You are welcome to your opinion, and so are the others on this thread. I love an open courteous discussion, but I really do not understand why different manners of parenting in concerns to child safety would spawn such a reaction to assume that your cognitive skills are in any way superior to any other in this discussion.

 

[CleveRocks]

I'm not at all sure that I have seen any parent say that he or she cannot manage their children without a harness. I did see that most were more comfortable with one. If you feel that your kids are safe enough to take them places that are crowded and forgo a harness, fine. To actively assume that parents who feel that the child is safer with one is lazy is condescending.

Perhaps lazy is too strong a word. Perhaps not. Certainly an arguable point.

To assume that you are the more vigilant parent is arrogant. ...

You are welcome to your opinion, and so are the others on this thread. I love an open courteous discussion, but I really do not understand why different manners of parenting in concerns to child safety would spawn such a reaction to assume that your cognitive skills are in any way superior to any other in this discussion.

I never said that I have superior powers of vigilance, or that my cognitive skills in general are superior. It's just that a parent who is not physically attached to a child by an inanimate apparatus must pay more attention, must be more vigilant, in order to protect against separation from the child. I believe I said I have to expend more cognitive and physical energy -- I never said my skills were superior. Let me put it in a manner that you might understand better: If you have to carry 20 pounds from Point A to Point B and I have to carry 50 pounds from Point A to Point B, I have to expend more physical energy to do so. Does that assume I'm stronger than you, that I have superior physical skills or strength than you? Of course not! It just means I had to do more lifting in that instance.

Please don't misquote me and accuse me of saying I'm superior to anyone here. I don't think that different opinions make someone superior or inferior to others, just different.

-- Eric

 

[NotUrsula]

So how come I can do it all without using a leash and harness and many others of you can't? Am I that much stronger, physically or mentally? I highly doubt that. Do I love my kids more than you do? No way! It's just that because I don't even see using a leash and harness as an option, I make do by being more vigilant and expending more cognitive and physical energy. Does that make me better? No way! Just different.

It's not *you* that's so capable of staying safe without the walking reins (their proper name, BTW), it is your children. Your children are different than the children of other parents, and your children apparently have not chosen to be devious enough to consistently escape from you in dangerous situations. You got lucky. Many parents over the centuries have not been so lucky, which is why the concept was put into practice so long ago that no one can pinpoint exactly when it was. (As long ago as the 14th century, they were built into all toddlers' clothing; they were known at that time as leading strings. Separate harnesses became popular in the 19th century, when they came into use to keep children from falling out of the then-newfangled strollers. European harnesses are still sold with two sets of straps, one for walking, and one for use with a stroller or highchair as a supplemental restraint.)