Todays Rant

[jcb]

But the analogy applies to vacations even closer to home. Earlier this year, I priced a 10 day stay in Yellowstone / Grand Tetons for this summer. Fly there (2 people) rent a car, stay at the National Park lodges inside the park(s). Ouch. I could do 10 days at Disney for about 1/2 of the cost (fly, stay off-site, rent a car, no APs). I eliminate food as a variable because I will eat no matter where I am and the difference in cost probably isn't that great. The major difference is lodging: staying on-site isn't important to me at WDW - it is in Yellowstone / Grand Tetons.

 

[NuttyDisneyDad]

Im glad I started this thread so we could just have a nice conversation about it without anyone going off the lid about it! Thanx

 

[MikeTaylor]

When we first went to WDW together, a 7-day ticket + hotel package (15% off qualifying, at a value resort) was somewhere around $40 per person (ticket only), per day. For simplicity purposes, I'll use inflation at 5% per year on the package offer, and use actual rates for 1 day base tickets:

2010: $40.000000000 x 7 days = $280.00 - actual MYW 1 day base ticket = $79-$82
2011: $42.000000000 x 7 days = $294.00 - actual MYW 1 day base ticket = $82-$85 (3.79% increase)
2012: $44.100000000 x 7 days = $308.70 - actual MYW 1 day base ticket = $85-$89 (3.66% increase)
2013: $46.305000000 x 7 days = $324.14 - actual MYW 1 day base ticket = $89 (4.71% increase)
2014: $48.620250000 x 7 days = $340.34 - actual MYW 1 day base ticket = $90-$99 (1.12% increase)
2015: $51.051262500 x 7 days = $357.36 - actual MYW 1 day base ticket = $94-$105 (4.44% increase)
2016: $53.603825625 x 7 days = $375.23 - actual MYW 1 day base ticket = $97-$124 (3.19% increase)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2017: $56.28401690625000 x 7 days = $393.99 - est. MYW 1 day base ticket = $100-$128 (3.485% increase)
2018: $59.09821775156250 x 7 days = $413.69 - est. MYW 1 day base ticket = $103-$132 (3.485% increase)
2019: $62.05312863914063 x 7 days = $434.37 - est. MYW 1 day base ticket = $107-$137 (3.485% increase)
2020: $65.15578507109766 x 7 days = $456.09 - est. MYW 1 day base ticket = $111-$142 (3.485% increase)
2021: $68.41357432465254 x 7 days = $478.90 - est. MYW 1 day base ticket = $115-$147 (3.485% increase)
2022: $71.83425304088517 x 7 days = $502.84 - est. MYW 1 day base ticket = $119-$152 (3.485% increase)
2023: $75.42596569292943 x 7 days = $527.98 - est. MYW 1 day base ticket = $123-$157 (3.485% increase)

It may not be all of the parks and construction, it could be Disney just finally catching up to the market.

The tiered pricing for peak days and such will alienate a lot of different customers, but as long as demand stays high, the incentive for them to act is low. They do a price adjustment every new fiscal year...

The Magic Your Way 1 day base ticket has increased as little as 1.12% (w/park tier implemented that year) and as high as 4.71% from a year-to-year standpoint over the last 7 years. That's an average increase of 3.485% every year.

Right now, if you go to Magic Kingdom every day on a 7 day package, you're saving the maximum amount of ~42-45% depending on peak (actual adult price base is $400-$439 / 7 days = $57-$62, but the "offer" now is get your 7th day "free" so: $343/7days=$49, $338/7days=$48). Somewhat close to my estimated 2016 price of $53.60 per day.

 

[SoarinSC]

I think Pete made it really clear he was speaking to that group that boisterously complains every time a price increase happens then goes anyway. Basically your ***** and moan for the sake of *****ing and moaning crowd.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I don't know what inflation calculator you're using, but the numbers I'm getting show that Disney is WAY above the inflation rate with their prices. For reference, this is the calculator I'm using. This is the site I'm using for historical Disney ticket prices.

I went back to 1999 - all 4 parks were open, they just re-structured the tickets. Tickets were all access tickets as they are now (not ticket books).

An adult 4 day PH pass in 1999 was 163.00 (at its cheapest). That $163 would equal $231.80 in 2016. A current adult 4 day park hopper is $394 (according to the WDW website). That's a 40% increase *over* what just the inflation increase would be.

Even just going back to the 2005 introduction of Magic Your Way tickets -
an adult 4 day base ticket cost $185. That $185 would equal $224.82 in 2016. Current 4 day base tickets cost $325. That's a 30% increase over what the inflation-alone increase would be.

Even just back in 2012, an adult 4 day base ticket (cheapest through disney) was $243. That $243 would equal $250.75 in 2016. Current 4 day base are $325. That's a 22% increase over what inflation alone would be.

Yes, that's 4 day tickets only...I didn't go back and calculate the differences for every type of ticket (have an appt to get to soon ). And as I said before, I understand that Disney is a business and don't expect them to be a charity at all. But I don't see how these numbers can show that the current pricing isn't that far off from what it's been over the years adjusting for inflation. The increases are quite a bit above just the inflation increase..

I'm sorry...let me clarify. The calculation came from a 1971 model. I was discussing it with someone in another group and they were going on about how it 'only' cost $3.50 to get in at that point. Our argument that started this all was that $3.50 was a lot of $ in '71. Another person had countered with that price adjusted for inflation. And then I brought in ticket booklets- which were $4.50. And considering the number of tickets in each booklet vs the amounts of attractions we'd ride in a day now, especially E tickets, and we came up at 3 ticket booklets pp. So, in 1971, that would be $17, but in today's world that would be $99.45. So, it would seem Disney actually cost less for a bit when they went to tickets that included entry and attractions. I know I looked at 1985 pricing as just an example and when considering inflation, it was cheaper to spend a day in MK in 1985 than it was in 1971. Still, I'm sure someone at Disney looked at what early pricing models adjusted for inflation and compared them to RFID collected data on how many rides/attractions the avg guest takes in during a day...and started raising ticket prices to meet the earlier inflation models. It's obviously not a perfect model, but it's hard to ignore that 1971 pricing model would add up to about $100 a day at present.

 

[5kidsmommy]

I am pretty sure I am missing something here, but decides to use this to start my post anyway I am English teacher in Asia. I am going to WDW for the first time this September, but the only reason I can afford to go now is because my folks are paying for the majority of it. I only return to the U.S. every couple years, so this is a bit of an excuse for us to spend all our time together for two weeks.

I think Kathy made an interesting point about having to give up stuff because she wanted to go to Disney with her family in the past and that was her priority. I think that's ultimately how I feel about it too. If you really want to go, then I think a lot of people (not everyone, I know) could find a way. If I was paying for myself, I would have to decide where Disney fell on my list of places I want to go and if I would be willing to give up other things, and maybe even other vacations, to save up the money. I know that I am very fortunate to have parents who can afford to take me on vacation still.

I'm not saying everyone ranting is doing this, but I've found that lots of people complain about not having one thing while spending money on another. I have an aunt who always complains to my mom that she can't afford a vacation every time we go on one, but she is constantly remodeling her house...it make's it a but hard to really sympathize with her.

The rants on boards like this don't bother me too much, and compared to all the other negative things online it seems pretty mild. However, I can see why it bothers some. While I think the team does sympathize with those this really affects, I think Craig has sort of pointed out that there are people who are going to complain because there is something to complain about even as they continuing to go and pay for the nicest hotels, dinning, and tickets. Some people are just negative...it must be hard to be them.

This. We have friends that always say things like how they wish they could go on vacation like us. Well they choose to buy a home three times the cost of ours. They live in the same community and have less children than us, it a choice. We choose a modest home because we like to travel multiple times a year. Choices, so many choices.

 

[Tissa]

If you go regularly then ticket price increases should be no surprise, I do not like it, but I wasn't shocked. Did I complain? Yes, as a single mom it is getting harder to afford to take my boys, but there is no other vacation where my autistic son has a place to go where he actually comes out of his shell an has fun. We will still go next year but we will stay and eat offsite and not spend money in the parks. I'll complain but find a way to make it work until my boys no longer want to go.

 

[keepswimming76]

but there is no other vacation where my autistic son has a place to go where he actually comes out of his shell an has fun. .

This is the exact reason we spend $$$$ to go to Disney every couple of years. People look at us like we are crazy because of the cost, but we cut back in other areas. Our son doesn't play a competitive sport, so we look at it as money we are not spending on uniforms, tournaments, etc. Price increases are going to happen, whether it's gas, air travel, or WDW. It's a matter of finding a way to make it work if going is something that is truly important to your family. We've cut back drastically on dining out the past few months leading up to our May trip. I just keep reminding myself that I would rather spend the money eating at a restaurant while on our vacation.

I don't think this increase is going to price any families out at this point. There are ways to do Disney on the cheap, we've done them before. We're lucky to have a bit more disposable income this time around and have budgeted to stay in a deluxe for the first time.

 

[disneysteve]

We will still go next year but we will stay and eat offsite and not spend money in the parks. I'll complain but find a way to make it work

Certainly there are ways to do Disney cheaper. The problem arises particularly with the folks who have already made all of those cuts in the past. We drive down, stay offsite, eat most meals offsite, and spend little in the parks. There isn't much left to be cut from the way we already do our trips.

I don't think this increase is going to price any families out at this point.

Sure it will. I have no doubt that there are families that were really reaching to scrape together the money to go last time. An increase in ticket prices, hotel rates, airfare, and food costs combined can be enough to sink the next trip. Everyone's budget has a limit.

 

[VandVsmama]

It's the simple law of supply & demand. Trips to DL & WDW are really popular because Disney has figured out a way to provide a lot of value to its visitors/guests/customers. People continue to go to the East & West coast parks Disney resorts because Disney provides a really excellent product. If DL/WDW was like going to Six Flags, then I would never bother going. My pocketbook doesn't like the annual increase in ticket prices, but for me, personally, I still go to DL because even with the price increases, it's a really awesome experience.

I agree w/Pete's point from the podcast...what is dumb is the individuals who balk & loudly complain about price increases, threaten to never go again, yet there they are going to DL/WDW again a few months later. This type of complaining can sometimes happen a fair amount amongst regular DL visitors/AP holders. When ticket prices are announced, especially AP price increases, there is often a large & loud uproar for a week or 2 after the announcement and then when their AP comes up for renewal, they quietly pay it because they love going to DL so much.

 

[Tiggerette]

Just a non-sequitur post to say that I'm enjoying reading and considering the insights raised here. I greatly appreciate a good discussion that engages without demeaning alternative points of view. If only we could all hang out for tea or other "effervescent libation." We could have a drinking game to discover the "secret" English teachers amoung us. (It's definitely not me!)

 

[dogdangling]

People should be more annoyed they are paying more for less. The character cuts across the resort are a disgrace, the mismanagement of Shanghai shouldn't be at the expense of other parks.

 

[Dolf]

OK, so let's say everyone just stopped complaining. Pete wins the argument. (Love you Pete, no disrespect) I believe Disney would take advantage of the "no complaints in this department" and raise the prices to a point even higher. Along with supply and demand, I also believe Disney CAN and WOULD raise to a higher price point, but they don't because they will really look like a**holes. I think it is in everyone's interest to keep complaining about any price increase to prevent Disney World from a thing that only the 1% can do. Complaining about prices going up is one thing. But complaining about people complaining about the prices going up? Really? What are we coming to? Then you hear, "if you don't like it, then just don't go." Well I guess that's what I have done for the last 7 years, not going to WDW. I haven't been to WDW since 2009. Is it because I don't like it? No. It's because I can't afford it. I'm a local to Disneyland, but you don't see me complaining about people complaining about the price of Disneyland. Can you imagine if this were an episode: "Pete rants that he can't afford to go to Disney World himself." That would be hysterical. Yes this is America. Yes we are Capitalist society. But, we also have a freedom of speech. Complaining about prices going up- valid. I think most of these people are not people who complain for the sake of complaining. Don't get me wrong, they are out there, but complaining about people who complain isn't helping anything.

P.S. I am aware of the irony that this is essentially complaining about a guy complaining about people who complain.

 

[goofy77]

Pete was not always like that with the price of tickets going up. He would go on rants about them raising the prices over and over again. He would say shame on you disney blah blah blah. He just changed his tune a few years ago. If you go back a few years ago and listening to the podcast you will see.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

Pete was not always like that with the price of tickets going up. He would go on rants about them raising the prices over and over again. He would say shame on you disney blah blah blah. He just changed his tune a few years ago. If you go back a few years ago and listening to the podcast you will see.

He has already "admitted" to having done rants about price increases in the past, and then having an "ah hah" moment - not new info, whether I agree or not.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Pete was not always like that with the price of tickets going up. He would go on rants about them raising the prices over and over again. He would say shame on you disney blah blah blah. He just changed his tune a few years ago. If you go back a few years ago and listening to the podcast you will see.

I believe Pete has said he used to do that but then realized that he would so that ... and then go buy the tickets/renew his AP, etc. anyway - so that is really what he was ranting about. Not people complaining about the prices going up but those that do and say they will never go again ... and then turn around and go anyway

 

[EricInPA]

OK, so let's say everyone just stopped complaining. Pete wins the argument. (Love you Pete, no disrespect) I believe Disney would take advantage of the "no complaints in this department" and raise the prices to a point even higher.

I don't think that's true. Disney knows how much they should/need to raise ticket prices to meet whatever goals they are trying to achieve, and they are basically in step with Universal.

What I would be more interested to see is the board reaction if crowds actually went down as a result of a ticket increase. I'm doubtful people would say "hey, it worked! there's less people in the parks, our vacation was more enjoyable". Probably more along the lines of "see? they hit the breaking point. this is the end of WDW".

 

[disneysteve]

What I would be more interested to see is the board reaction if crowds actually went down as a result of a ticket increase. I'm doubtful people would say "hey, it worked! there's less people in the parks, our vacation was more enjoyable". Probably more along the lines of "see? they hit the breaking point. this is the end of WDW".

Good question. Would I be upset or concerned if crowds went down? Well I sure as heck wouldn't be upset. Would I be concerned? Only if company financials started showing a reduction in income and profits.