To the DISer whose husband was looking for a teaching job

[disneyandme]

Their job is to get the kids to "perform" And yes managers all over are fired when their staff doesn't perform

Sure, but managers in dept A aren't fired because staff in dept B aren't performing.

 

[daughtersrus]

I'm sorry, the link I posted did not work - I have replaced it with the working link.

Can you tell me where you are getting 280 minutes from?

I think that the 280 minutes are coming from my post. I took 90 minutes for the required meeting each week + 60 minutes of tutoring each week + 30 minutes for lunch one day a week + 20 minutes each day X 5= 280 extra minutes each week. I now realize that it's at least 305 extra minutes each week as the purposed day was going to be 25 and not 20 minutes. Of course, I realize that this is on top of the school day and does not include any prep or grading time.

The poster that I was responding to kept saying that isn't only 20 minutes and I was trying to show them that it's much more than that.

 

[daughtersrus]

280 minutes a week isn't even an hour a day. So add 1 hour a day onto 8 and that is still less than most people I know. Especially people who make 72,000 a year plus full and great benefits.

Just because you oversee employees that does not mean you have hiring and firing rights especially in a large corporation.

You keep saying this but have yet to tell us what professions you're comparing teachers to. Why is that?

When do you think that teachers grade papers, prep for class, prep for IEP meetings...?

You also are not understanding that those that are making 72,000 are doing so because they have worked for this school district for over 10 years and have advanced degrees. Have you even taken a look at the contract between the teachers and Central Falls School District? If you have, you would have seen that the starting pay for teachers is $44,029 but yet you act like all of the teachers started off making $72,000.

 

[Telcogirl]

If you are going to quote me, make sure you read it before you comment.

Thanks for the advice, but be assured that I did read your entire post before commenting. I just went back and re-read your post and I still don't add up the 9 1/2 hours.

I certainly did not mean to offend you, but a summary report by CNN.com is different than the details that have been on my local news for the past few weeks.

 

[MrsPete]

BTW, can you explain to me the formula on the pension? how much is taken out each month and what pension will a teacher get when he/she retires? so that we, non-teachers, can set aside the money and create our own pension plan.

Check this link: http://www.nctreasurer.com/dsthome/RetirementSystems/Benefits_Handbook.htm On page 7 there's a formula for the pension pay-out. You'll see that to get a decent amount you have to put in a full 30 years. I expect that after 30 years my pension should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1700-1800/month. You can set up a pension of your own (and I bet you know this), but for an individual it's called a 401K or an IRA.

I don't know off the top of my head how much is deducted from each paycheck, and I keep my paystubs in my file cabinet at work, so I can't check. Sorry, I'm only answering half your question.

Thanks. That's my point. A teacher is NOT ONLY getting the money he/she put in from his/her pay check, because if it does, most of the companies will do it. Then there is the medical coverage, right? The fact that it is "earned" because it is really part of the whole teaching package.

There's no way to know whether a teacher's pension will be ONLY the money he himself paid in or whether he will get more than what he paid in. Why? Because you don't know how long that teacher will live.

A person who begins teaching young, teaches 30 years and earns a full pension, and then lives in retirement for another 30 years may very well take home MORE than she ever paid in. On the other hand, a person who dies young may collect only a fraction of what she contributed over the years -- or, if she dies before retirement, she might never collect a penny. Which is more typical? I don't know.

That's the nature of a pension. If you live a long time, you win. If you die young, you lose (in more than one way, but I mean financially). In some ways it's better than a 401K, but in other ways it's worse. If you die young with a 401K, at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that your family gets your money. A person with a pension who dies young leaves his family with nothing (from that source).

If you want a teacher pension, all you have to do is get yourself into the classroom AND survive for 25 years! Good luck! It's not as easy as it looks! You are either called to teach or you are not. There is really no in between. Those who aren't called to the profession will be in and out within 5 years. (Just look at teacher turnover statistics!)

That's absolutely true. Having the right personality is essential to being successful as a teacher. It doesn't mean you're a good or a bad person -- just that you're the right person for the job.

What people outside the educational system fail to understand is that NONE OF THIS is about the MONEY. Oh, more money would be nice -- don't get me wrong about that! But what we teachers despise is the negative, jealous, misplaced comments and attitudes and complaints such as "You'd think they wouldn't complain -- after all, they only work 6.5 hours a day" or "It must be nice to be paid for staying home all summer." MANY people believe those are facts and simply do not believe anything else. I knew that my teacher paycheck wouldn't be great, but I didn't know that about 50% of the general public has a rather negative attitude towards education and teachers.

 

[bucket o' butter]

I think when you are making $70,000 a year for approx 6 hrs of work every weekend and holiday off and a full 2 months of vacation and you are asked to work an addition 20-40 minutes a day you should be willing to do it. They weren't so now they get to see what the rest of the real world has been dealing with.

I agree something needs to happen to the schools in Rhode Island, but the above information is definitely wrong as far as averages go. I have taught for 12 years and I make $40,000 a year. I go into work at 7:15 A.M. and rarely leave before 4 P.M. (I do not have to carry insurance for my family, but if I did, I would be paying well over $600 a month for it. Plus I pay union dues out of every check. ) I do get a 30 minute lunch break, but usually that is interrupted at some point. I am constantly doing work at home too. there are some teachers who have taught for many years and might be makign $70,000 a year, but I find it hard to believe that there are teachers working 6 hour days.
Now, back to the schools in Rhode Island. If that many students are failing, then there is a huge issue here. I think the teachers and the administration needs to meet in the middle somewhere. It is the students who will suffer in the long run. Hopefully they can get things settled down so these students have a fighting chance!

 

[fac]

When do you think that teachers grade papers, prep for class, prep for IEP meetings...?

I can tell you for the lousy teachers DD had in the last few years, they were all done during the contracted hours. In fact, at one point I was told that the teachers only contracted to ....hours. Hence they did their best to trick me into signing whatever they prepared.

 

[chobie]

Check this link: http://www.nctreasurer.com/dsthome/RetirementSystems/Benefits_Handbook.htm On page 7 there's a formula for the pension pay-out. You'll see that to get a decent amount you have to put in a full 30 years. I expect that after 30 years my pension should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1700-1800/month. You can set up a pension of your own (and I bet you know this), but for an individual it's called a 401K or an IRA.

I don't know off the top of my head how much is deducted from each paycheck, and I keep my paystubs in my file cabinet at work, so I can't check. Sorry, I'm only answering half your question.There's no way to know whether a teacher's pension will be ONLY the money he himself paid in or whether he will get more than what he paid in. Why? Because you don't know how long that teacher will live.

A person who begins teaching young, teaches 30 years and earns a full pension, and then lives in retirement for another 30 years may very well take home MORE than she ever paid in. On the other hand, a person who dies young may collect only a fraction of what she contributed over the years -- or, if she dies before retirement, she might never collect a penny. Which is more typical? I don't know.

That's the nature of a pension. If you live a long time, you win. If you die young, you lose (in more than one way, but I mean financially). In some ways it's better than a 401K, but in other ways it's worse. If you die young with a 401K, at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that your family gets your money. A person with a pension who dies young leaves his family with nothing (from that source). That's absolutely true. Having the right personality is essential to being successful as a teacher. It doesn't mean you're a good or a bad person -- just that you're the right person for the job.

What people outside the educational system fail to understand is that NONE OF THIS is about the MONEY. Oh, more money would be nice -- don't get me wrong about that! But what we teachers despise is the negative, jealous, misplaced comments and attitudes and complaints such as "You'd think they wouldn't complain -- after all, they only work 6.5 hours a day" or "It must be nice to be paid for staying home all summer." MANY people believe those are facts and simply do not believe anything else. I knew that my teacher paycheck wouldn't be great, but I didn't know that about 50% of the general public has a rather negative attitude towards education and teachers.

And everyone thinks they know how to do the job. But if its such a sweet life than why aren't these people who complain so bitterly about it doing that instead of nursing or whatever else it is they choose to do?

I'm not a teacher, but my DH is. He wanted me to go into teaching so we can have the same schedule but I could never be a teacher for the following reasons:
1. I simply cannot teach anyone, anything. Just not a talent I have.
2. I don't have patience enough for groups of children (I was a brownie leader by default for a few months and I hated it, could not control the kids, could not show them how to do the projects, etc.)
3. I would not be able to deal with the obnoxious parents that seem to abound these days. My DH is a HS band director and just seeing what he puts up with from parents...

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

I think that the 280 minutes are coming from my post. I took 90 minutes for the required meeting each week + 60 minutes of tutoring each week + 30 minutes for lunch one day a week + 20 minutes each day X 5= 280 extra minutes each week. I now realize that it's at least 305 extra minutes each week as the purposed day was going to be 25 and not 20 minutes. Of course, I realize that this is on top of the school day and does not include any prep or grading time.

The poster that I was responding to kept saying that isn't only 20 minutes and I was trying to show them that it's much more than that.

I see what you mean now, but the article was unclear whether it was just one hour a day or one hour a week for tutoring. The way I read it, I understood it to say that that would occur 5 days a week.

 

[BuzzLiteyear]

I think when you are making $70,000 a year for approx 6 hrs of work every weekend and holiday off and a full 2 months of vacation and you are asked to work an addition 20-40 minutes a day you should be willing to do it. They weren't so now they get to see what the rest of the real world has been dealing with.

WOW! I couldn't let this one go.

I am a teacher. I have been working for over 10 years. I am not even close to $70,000 a year. I wish my day was a 6 hour day. I get to school at 7 AM and on a short day I leave @ 3:30 PM. That is 8 1/2 hours and as I stated, that is a short day. My lunch is 22 minutes. I rarely get to eat it due to various little tasks that I want/need to get done.

Now, I know nothing about the RI situation. I do resent ignorant comments aimed at teachers in general. I guess that it would be ok if your employer asked you to give up lunch once a week (for the good of the company)?

How about this....if you make more than $50,000/yr you have to give up lunch once a week? If you make more than $80,000/yr you have to give up two? If you make over $100,000/yr you have to give up them all?

It seems as though we encourage most people to go into the workplace and make as much money as they can. Teachers are not part of that group.

Please pay me $70,000 for a 6 hour day. Heck, I'll take $70,000 for my 8 1/2+ hour day (and that does not include work I take home). Before you disrespect me and my profession feel free to get a teaching certificate and do my job for a while. I love my job, but like every other American Worker, I expect to get paid a fair wage for doing it.

 

[BuzzLiteyear]

It's not my hours or my pay that I am complaining about -- what I hate is teacher-bashing and people who insist that we're sitting around on our butts drinking coffee, doing nothing to help the students. It's those attitudes towards teaching that I hate.

AMEN!!! What she said .

 

[fac]

Sure, but managers in dept A aren't fired because staff in dept B aren't performing.

Sorry, I fail to see how it relevant to hannathy's post, when she said

Their job is to get the kids to "perform" And yes managers all over are fired when their staff doesn't perform

are you still comparing the kids as employees? unbelievable

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Sorry, I fail to see how it relevant to hannathy's post, when she said


are you still comparing the kids as employees? unbelievable

Kids aren't employees nor will they act like employees. You can bribe them with more money or free dinners. If kids were employees and could be 'fired', then I think some schools would be a lot better off. Am I suggesting that kids should be fired, no - just wanted that to be clear so nobody would jump on me saying how horrible it is that I said kids should be fired.

I have yet to read a post on this thread with a possible solution to this problem. Doesn't anybody have any ideas?

 

[EKW]

I think when you are making $70,000 a year for approx 6 hrs of work every weekend and holiday off and a full 2 months of vacation and you are asked to work an addition 20-40 minutes a day you should be willing to do it. They weren't so now they get to see what the rest of the real world has been dealing with.

I have been teaching for 26 years and I make just over half of what you quote...26 years, a Specialist Certification, and I will never in my life make $70,000 a year. I work a minimum of 8 hours a day...plus meetings, trainings, and the required graduate courses which I pay for out of my pocket so I can keep my certification current.

No teacher gets two months of vacation. We have unpaid time off. Funny how when you talk about anyone other than teachers, that is furlough time, not vacation.

In addition, no district I've ever worked in has offered maternity leave or other perks that most professionals enjoy.

Angry and uninformed. Not a nice combination. My best advice is that if you have never taught in a failing school system...failing for whatever reason...don't judge the teachers there.

 

[fac]

Check this link: http://www.nctreasurer.com/dsthome/RetirementSystems/Benefits_Handbook.htm On page 7 there's a formula for the pension pay-out. You'll see that to get a decent amount you have to put in a full 30 years. I expect that after 30 years my pension should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1700-1800/month. You can set up a pension of your own (and I bet you know this), but for an individual it's called a 401K or an IRA.

I don't know off the top of my head how much is deducted from each paycheck, and I keep my paystubs in my file cabinet at work, so I can't check. Sorry, I'm only answering half your question.There's no way to know whether a teacher's pension will be ONLY the money he himself paid in or whether he will get more than what he paid in. Why? Because you don't know how long that teacher will live.

A person who begins teaching young, teaches 30 years and earns a full pension, and then lives in retirement for another 30 years may very well take home MORE than she ever paid in. On the other hand, a person who dies young may collect only a fraction of what she contributed over the years -- or, if she dies before retirement, she might never collect a penny. Which is more typical? I don't know.

That's the nature of a pension. If you live a long time, you win. If you die young, you lose (in more than one way, but I mean financially). In some ways it's better than a 401K, but in other ways it's worse. If you die young with a 401K, at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that your family gets your money. A person with a pension who dies young leaves his family with nothing (from that source). That's absolutely true. Having the right personality is essential to being successful as a teacher. It doesn't mean you're a good or a bad person -- just that you're the right person for the job.

What people outside the educational system fail to understand is that NONE OF THIS is about the MONEY. Oh, more money would be nice -- don't get me wrong about that! But what we teachers despise is the negative, jealous, misplaced comments and attitudes and complaints such as "You'd think they wouldn't complain -- after all, they only work 6.5 hours a day" or "It must be nice to be paid for staying home all summer." MANY people believe those are facts and simply do not believe anything else. I knew that my teacher paycheck wouldn't be great, but I didn't know that about 50% of the general public has a rather negative attitude towards education and teachers.

Thanks. I do know. I had taught a few years in the college level (not as a TA, but as a full time instructor) while in graduate school, therefore I would be entitled to my pension had I stayed for 25 years. (Not going into why I left) LOL.

My point was that the pension, the medical benefit are part of the teaching package, and those are nice benefits not in many professions.

Incidentally, I was in the BOE meeting tonight. They were discussing the budget cuts, the one item that will be increased is the teachers' salary and health benefits. Not that anyone against it, but it is a fact. Yes, there will be a few positions eliminated, but the pay raises will happen as it is part of the contract. In fact, one board member even explained that the property tax will always increase because the salary can only increase. LOL.

Again, I do not envy a teacher's job, but if anyone whines, then at least acknowledge the benefits and if it were so bad, then get another job. (MrsPete, I do recognized you brought up pension in your post).

As a parent, if it were happened in my district and the teachers were not willing to contribute some extra time, I will support the RI superintendent's decision.

it is interesting though, the rep in RI also said it is not about time and money. I quote

“It’s not about time and money,” said Jim Parisi, a RIFT field representative. “It’s about our right to negotiate time and money.”

 

[fac]

I have yet to read a post on this thread with a possible solution to this problem. Doesn't anybody have any ideas?

good question.
I cannot see how we can get away of not adding extra time for those kids. I believed the sticking point was the union wanted to be compensated and the district claimed that they do not have money. Therefore the solution is to find someone who is willing to put the time.

Will the court be the deciding factor?

Without knowing the kids, it is difficult to say what teaching strategy will work.

Anyone has a better idea? I love to see a teacher's constructive input.




I think the mentallity of some teachers may need to be changed. My SIL, who just retired from teaching visisted me last week, told me she refused to listen to anyone give her comment about a kid as she did not think it is fair for a kid to be pre-judged.

I was talken back by some of the following

a from http://www.projo.com/news/content/central_falls_turmoil_02-28-10_TQHGS9N_v292.38b0e26.html
We don’t make excuses [for the low test scores], but we do have to talk about reality,” union president Sessums said to the cheers of the crowd. “Children in poverty come to school with a lot of issues.”

b. A few posts brought up where is the responsibility of the parents?

c. My experience with the IEP team, they like to use "she has disability" to answer all my questions, then when I pulled DD out of resource room to teach her and showed them that I successed, their answers were "Math is easy to teach" Bottom line, none of anything is the teacher's responsibility

May be it is me, but I saw those as execuses, I hope a teacher can see that if a child spends about 1/3 of the time in school, it will be nice to see an adult to take some responsibilities to help the child. As pointed out by bridge a few posts back, it can be done, but it needs strong leadership and dedicated staff.

Now writing until this point... if I do not have a 11 years old and a 9 years old, I will give it a try.

 

[fac]

I have been teaching for 26 years and I make just over half of what you quote...26 years, a Specialist Certification, and I will never in my life make $70,000 a year. I work a minimum of 8 hours a day...plus meetings, trainings, and the required graduate courses which I pay for out of my pocket so I can keep my certification current.

No teacher gets two months of vacation. We have unpaid time off. Funny how when you talk about anyone other than teachers, that is furlough time, not vacation.

In addition, no district I've ever worked in has offered maternity leave or other perks that most professionals enjoy.

Angry and uninformed. Not a nice combination. My best advice is that if you have never taught in a failing school system...failing for whatever reason...don't judge the teachers there.

I don't know where hannathy lives, but I can tell you where I live in NJ, the starting is around $45,000. In a BOE meeting tonight, it was mentioned that someone gets over $120K, but with nearly 30 years of teaching. it is easy to get those number from the Board meeting minutes.

The following is from NY
http://schools.nyc.gov/TeachNYC/salary/default.htm, I quote

"Salaries are based on prior teaching experience as well as your undergraduate and graduate education. As of May 2008, starting teacher salaries range from $45,530 (bachelor’s degree, no prior teaching experience) to $74,796 (master’s degree, 8 years teaching experience). Teachers who already have a master’s degree but no teaching experience will start at $51,425. All teacher salaries are listed on the official salary schedule. "


We all know the pay rate is based on the region, can we just get pass the discussion on salary? On the other hand, you are welcome to come to NJ/NY to look for a teaching job.

I am not even going to discuss the other post on giving up lunch..

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

WOW! I couldn't let this one go.

I am a teacher. I have been working for over 10 years. I am not even close to $70,000 a year. I wish my day was a 6 hour day. I get to school at 7 AM and on a short day I leave @ 3:30 PM. That is 8 1/2 hours and as I stated, that is a short day. My lunch is 22 minutes. I rarely get to eat it due to various little tasks that I want/need to get done.

Now, I know nothing about the RI situation. I do resent ignorant comments aimed at teachers in general. I guess that it would be ok if your employer asked you to give up lunch once a week (for the good of the company)?

How about this....if you make more than $50,000/yr you have to give up lunch once a week? If you make more than $80,000/yr you have to give up two? If you make over $100,000/yr you have to give up them all?

It seems as though we encourage most people to go into the workplace and make as much money as they can. Teachers are not part of that group.

Please pay me $70,000 for a 6 hour day. Heck, I'll take $70,000 for my 8 1/2+ hour day (and that does not include work I take home). Before you disrespect me and my profession feel free to get a teaching certificate and do my job for a while. I love my job, but like every other American Worker, I expect to get paid a fair wage for doing it.

Very well said, I just don't understand WHY everyone is being so negative towards the teaching profession, seriously?

 

[fac]

Now, I know nothing about the RI situation. I do resent ignorant comments aimed at teachers in general. I guess that it would be ok if your employer asked you to give up lunch once a week (for the good of the company)?

How about this....if you make more than $50,000/yr you have to give up lunch once a week? If you make more than $80,000/yr you have to give up two? If you make over $100,000/yr you have to give up them all?

:

How does it relevant in the discussion of the RI case or even in anyon's post?

 

[BuzzLiteyear]

How does it relevant in the discussion of the RI case or even in anyon's post?

It's because of blanket statements like this....

Originally Posted by Hannathy
I think when you are making $70,000 a year for approx 6 hrs of work every weekend and holiday off and a full 2 months of vacation and you are asked to work an addition 20-40 minutes a day you should be willing to do it. They weren't so now they get to see what the rest of the real world has been dealing with.

IF a teacher works 6 hours (notice the big IF), then it is most likely contractual. Blame the BOE. I don't personally know of a teacher that only works 6 hours (wait, yes I do....we have a .5 FTE teacher in our school. I'm pretty sure she makes less than $70,000 )