Tip About Minimum Credit Card Purchases

[iloveboardwalk]

Here's the thing, though -as a customer, I don't care. I want to be able to buy what I need from a business, and pay for it with the method of my choice, and I ought to be able to do that. If there are no legal limits to a purchase amount, I want to be able to buy a pack of gum with my Visa if I choose, regardless of the impact to the business. That's my right as a customer. And if a store or business makes it difficult for me to do that, I will take my business somewhere else. But before I do, I will certainly let the store manager know that I'm doing it because of their illegal policies.

I'm not going to be spend any time worrying about a business, sorry to say...

It's not illegal.

You have no right to make credit card purchases at a private establishment. Where do you think this right would be derived from?

 

[DVCLiz]

It's not illegal.

You have no right to make credit card purchases at a private establishment. Where do you think this right would be derived from?

Yikes!! Where did that come from??

If that private business offers the use of a credit card as a convenience or servcie for its customers, I think I have a right to use it as defined by the credit card company.

 

[va32h]

And better prices, overall, for the same products. You say that as if it is a bad thing. Generally, I find the large chains provide not only better prices and better policies, but better service at the same price.

Small, local businesses are good for coming up with new offerings, and for offering unique items. That is the niche small, local businesses serve well, and should focus on exclusively. I see no reason to support them for doing things that the national chains do better.

So my point is that while I agree wholeheartedly, as I mentioned earlier, that customers should care about the why's and wherefor's of the business' concerns ("know thy enemy" ), but not to support local businesses providing lesser products and services for higher prices.

I do think it's a bad thing! Chain stores that sell a similar, but lesser quality, product to mine drive down the value of my product.

If we are comparing apples to apples, I sell high-end quilt fabric that is not available at Walmart, Hobby Lobby, or Joann's. The fabric vendors that I buy from will not sell to chain stores, so I know that my product is not carried there.

But some cheaper, shoddier fabrics are, and they are priced cheaper because they are made cheaply and are of lower quality. It does not bother me when new customers ask about this - because until I got into the business I didn't realize it either. But now that I do know, I explain about thread counts and greige goods and what makes a fabric a premium fabric, and once a quilter has used a good quality fabric, they never go back!

One of the services I provide is a free sample of my fabric; because I am that convinced that once you try it, you'll never want anything lesser. Try asking JoAnn's for a free 9"X12" piece of fabric to take home with you.

I'm not asking anyone to support a local business that provides a lesser product at a higher price. I'm just saying - don't make the ability to charge $1 the deciding factor in your consumer choice.

 

[iloveboardwalk]

Yikes!! Where did that come from??

From the "I don't care about anything except my own convenince" post.

If that private business offers the use of a credit card as a convenience or servcie for its customers, I think I have a right to use it as defined by the credit card company.

The whole premise of this thread, that a person should go out of their way to punish a business for trying to protect their bottom line, really rubs me the wrong way. Would you actually want a small business owner to go out of business due to excessive credit card company fees just so you can buy a pack of gum with your visa? I find that sense of entitlement incredibly self-centered. Perhaps I missed the message of your post?

 

[iloveboardwalk]

I'm not asking anyone to support a local business that provides a lesser product at a higher price. I'm just saying - don't make the ability to charge $1 the deciding factor in your consumer choice.

I hear you!

 

[KariC]

Yikes!! Where did that come from??

If that private business offers the use of a credit card as a convenience or servcie for its customers, I think I have a right to use it as defined by the credit card company.

One could also say you have the "right" to pay with a personal check if the business accepts them, because after all, a bank issued you the checks to use as defined by the bank. But it is up to the store if they will accept YOUR personal check for whatever reason.

The store has a "right" to be in business to make a profit and to have their own store policies. You have a "right" to shop elsewhere. I am not sure that this would be termed "illegal" and you would be hard-pressed to find a prosecutor to prosecute this as a legal infraction.


ps. I am using "you" generally ....not directed at DVCLiz or anyone else. I just posted the quote so that there's a reference back to make my post a little clearer.

 

[DVCLiz]

From the "I don't care about anything except my own convenince" post.



The whole premise of this thread, that a person should go out of their way to punish a business for trying to protect their bottom line, really rubs me the wrong way. Would you actually want a small business owner to go out of business due to excessive credit card company fees just so you can buy a pack of gum with your visa? I find that sense of entitlement incredibly self-centered. Perhaps I missed the message of your post?

I'm leaving now...to go buy gum.

 

[iloveboardwalk]

I'm leaving now...to go buy gum.

Pay with cash.

Or, buy it at Wal-mart, they accept credit for everything.

 

[DVCLiz]

One could also say you have the "right" to pay with a personal check if the business accepts them, because after all, a bank issued you the checks to use as defined by the bank. But it is up to the store if they will accept YOUR personal check for whatever reason.

The store has a "right" to be in business to make a profit and to have their own store policies. You have a "right" to shop elsewhere. I am not sure that this would be termed "illegal" and you would be hard-pressed to find a prosecutor to prosecute this as a legal infraction.


ps. I am using "you" generally ....not directed at DVCLiz or anyone else. I just posted the quote so that there's a reference back to make my post a little clearer.

Yeah, sure - I know it's all about me...

I guess my use of the word "illegal" is the issue here. I thought I had read earlier that it was illegal to make this policy, as far as the credit card company was concerned. If it's not, didn't someone say it was unethical? At any rate, wrong in some way was the way I read it.

Obviously, the number of times I would really, in my real life, use a Visa to buy something like a pack of gum is very low. And in the case of va32 I would spend a lot of money in your store, because I would be a customer with a high-end hobby and I would recognize and pay for the quality of material you carry.

 

[DVCLiz]

Pay with cash.

Or, buy it at Wal-mart, they accept credit for everything.

Seriously, though, is a debit card considered the same as far as charges go? Because while I never use my Visa like this in real life, I do use my debit card all the time - like for $1.70 at Sonic, etc. What is the merchant being charged in that case?

 

[va32h]

Seriously, though, is a debit card considered the same as far as charges go? Because while I never use my Visa like this in real life, I do use my debit card all the time - like for $1.70 at Sonic, etc. What is the merchant being charged in that case?

It depends on their merchant agreement. The higher volume of processing that you do, the lower your fees. And debit cards do cost the merchant less than credit card transactions.

It all has to do with the likelihood of fraud. The less likely the transaction will be fraudulent, the less you pay. That's why a debit card is cheaper than a swiped credit card is cheaper than a manually entered credit card.

I think Sonic can take the hit for your $1.70 transaction. Just be sure to tip your server, because they aren't paid diddly squat!

 

[iloveboardwalk]

Seriously, though, is a debit card considered the same as far as charges go? Because while I never use my Visa like this in real life, I do use my debit card all the time - like for $1.70 at Sonic, etc. What is the merchant being charged in that case?

I have no idea.

My guess is that a company as large as sonic has the clout to force the CC companies to waive the fees. Given the nature of their business (volumn of small transactions) I'm sure they factored that into the equation when deciding whther to get the CC service or not. That's not the same a Joe Smith who owns the gas station franchise down the street, KWIM?

 

[lulu71]

I'm not asking anyone to support a local business that provides a lesser product at a higher price.

Right, and it bugs me when people automatically assume that the little guy is higher and just run to the chain without checking out the local business. There is a store here that may not offer his product as cheaply as the chain, but he doubles the warranty. Now that is something that I would pay a little bit more for. But it's amazing how many people I know run to Best Buy for the same product and have no clue this guy does this. Why? Because they didn't even step foot in the store to get a price!

And then there is the local camera shop that sees to it that you know everything there is to know about your camera before you walk out the door because a staff member will spend the time training you. But then people go to Circuit City, save a few bucks and then spend hours and sometimes $$ on Dummies books to learn how to use the thing.

GRRRR! OK, off my soapbox!

 

[corie161]

We have a convenience store in town that has a minimum charge of $10 or they charge you $1.00. I have wondered if this was against policy or not.

I'm not sure how many people out there actually intend on putting their 1.00 cappuccino on their debit/credit cards, but it bothers me when my purchase is $9.50 and I either have to purchase something additional, or get charged a buck to use my debit card. In the perfect world I would carry the cash I need for every purchase, but too often I'm caught with no cash on hand.

I haven't seen this business' books, but I would venture to guess they are doing ok, since they are the only gas station/convenience store in town. Unless your driving out of town on a regular basis, most have no other choice but to make their purchases there.

 

[DVCLiz]

I'm an excellent tipper at Sonic. Sonic ice is better than crack to me....

 

[punkin712]

Have you ever been to a small business that won't let you use a credit card unless you are spending a specific amount? Sometimes they have a sign posted that says "Minimum $10 purchase to use credit card". Now you know what I'm talking about, huh.

I recently found out that it is against credit card company policy for businesses to require a minimum purchase in order for a consumer to use their card. The only reason some merchants require this is because the credit card companies get a small percentage of the amount that is charged. In many case it's about 3%. That amount varies by company, with American Express charging merchants the most, which explains why many businesses still don't accept AMEX.

If you use a "rewards" or a "miles" card. Or if you use one that has no annual fee, guess who pays that fee? The business owner. One of those cards gets a higher fee than a card that doesn't have all of those features.

But in any case, if you ever encounter a minimum purchase requirement, you can tell the merchant that you know it is against credit card company policy to require a minimum purchase. You can also complain to the credit card company and they will give the merchant a warning. If the merchant doesn't stop violating the policy, they can lose their ability to accept credit cards and be blacklisted by all of the credit card companies.

Just some interesting information that I thought I'd share.

I worked for a major credit card issuer for over 10 years and found myself constantly "policing" businesses who posted minimum purchase requirements. If a business refused to accept my credit or debit card for a purchase that didn't meet their posted minimum, I reported them. The result is that the merchant's bank (that they process these transactions through) is notified and then they go to the merchant and tell them that they are not allowed to impose this restriction. If the merchant continues and more complaints are received, the merchant could lose its ability to accept credit or debit cards.

You can contact Visa or MasterCard directly or through your credit card company to report a merchant who refuses to accept your debit or credit card due to minimum or maximum purchase amounts, as well as requiring photo ID for credit/debit card purchases or charging an additional amount for credit/debit card purchases.

I know the fees associated with accepting credit/debit cards are steep, especially for small businesses, but in most cases the cost of not accepting these forms of payment (in the form of lost business) is much higher.

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

I know the fees associated with accepting credit/debit cards are steep, especially for small businesses, but in most cases the cost of not accepting these forms of payment (in the form of lost business) is much higher.

I disagree. If we accepted credit cards we would likely be out of business. And most people are willing to go to the ATM or the bank a few doors down to get cash. We also (in most cases) will charge for a couple of days if necessary to allow the customer to bring in cash or a checkbook at their convenience.

Can you do that at WalMart?????

 

[PghLybrt]

Please as a merchant I beg of you to not use your credit card for anything under $25.

Let me tell you why.

If you dispute the charge (and people do even when they have product they just know how to work the system, and yes there are also legitimate chargebacks) The charge back costs the merchant money. In my case the first 3 of the year are $25 and after that I get hit with a $50 fee. (not to mention the hassle it is to get the paperwork in order, the time wasted fighting it ect )

If it is a small purchase in my store most of the times they are lost leaders. This means that the item I am selling is already at or below cost. We require a minimum purchase if you want to also buy the lost leader.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

I worked for a major credit card issuer for over 10 years and found myself constantly "policing" businesses who posted minimum purchase requirements. If a business refused to accept my credit or debit card for a purchase that didn't meet their posted minimum, I reported them. The result is that the merchant's bank (that they process these transactions through) is notified and then they go to the merchant and tell them that they are not allowed to impose this restriction. If the merchant continues and more complaints are received, the merchant could lose its ability to accept credit or debit cards.

You can contact Visa or MasterCard directly or through your credit card company to report a merchant who refuses to accept your debit or credit card due to minimum or maximum purchase amounts, as well as requiring photo ID for credit/debit card purchases or charging an additional amount for credit/debit card purchases.

I know the fees associated with accepting credit/debit cards are steep, especially for small businesses, but in most cases the cost of not accepting these forms of payment (in the form of lost business) is much higher.

I am not sure when you worked for a processing company, but businesses are now being told specifically to ask for ID on an unsigned card or on a card where the signature has rubbed off or doesn't match. I am also within my rights to ask for ID if I simply suspect there might be an issue (for example, we ask each customer for their last name prior to ringing up the sale - if the last name they gave doesn't match the last name on the card - it may mean they are using a stolen card and we will always ask for ID). We are told of warning signs of credit card fraud (a customer using the card for a purchase, then coming back shortly later to use it for another, larger purchase) and are told to ask for ID.

I receive bulletins every month from Chase regarding issues of protecting and securing CC information and ways to prevent fraud.

I am absolutely within my rights as a merchant to require ID - in fact, all the major companies (AMEX, Visa/MC) are recommending it.

ID is never necessary with a debit card, as the customer has to use the PIN# - which is the customer's responsibility to protect.

Also - many people now sign the back of their cards, "Please See ID" for added protection.

I will, when I have a chance, check on the minimum purchase requirement - I have all my statements at my accountant's office and I'm not sure if it was printed as a bulletin on one of my statements or in a separate mailing. I am still so positive that we are now permitted to "reasonably" restrict charges up to $20. The word "reasonably" sticks in my mind. I might be wrong - but, I can't imagine why I have that in my head.

I think, if nothing else, this thread is proving to be educational to a lot of people.

 

[iloveboardwalk]

I know the fees associated with accepting credit/debit cards are steep, especially for small businesses, but in most cases the cost of not accepting these forms of payment (in the form of lost business) is much higher.

This leaves a really bad tatste in my mouth. I know you didn't create the policy, but honestly, it's like extorsion. The CC companies use their clout to force small business owners to use the cards, even if the transaction costs them more to run than they make in the sale. If the store doesn't want to, the CC company will pull their contract. That's such slimy, unethical business practices on the part of the CC company, IMO.

I will not report a small business owner for aving this policy and will continue to hold the opinion that those who DO report it are just being petty and selfish.