Timeshare maintenance fee comparison

[RobDoc]

Last month we purchased a resale at The Rushes, a timeshare in Bailey's Harbor, WI (cost was $900) . We just received our maintenance fee for 2003 and it included a comparison with other timeshares. (The Rushes increased 5.4% for 2003) These are all for fixed week-7 night- stays and are all the same regardless of the season.

Boyne Mt, MI------------------------- RCI--- $780
Tortuga Beach Club, FL------------- II-----$734
Plantation Beach Club, FL--------- RCI--- $701
Scottsdale Camelback Resort,AZ--RCI----$652
Ridge Tahoe, NV----------------------II------$648
Causeway on Gull, MN--------------RCI----$600
Vistana, FL (Orlando)---------------RCI----$566
Villas of Cave Creek, AZ-------------II------$488
The Pointe Resort, WI--------------RCI----$488
Big Canoe at Pettit Creek, GA-----RCI----$485
The Rushes, WI----------------------RCI----$465
Nicolet SHores, WI-------------------RCI----$457
The Beacons, WI----------------------II------$440
Fox Hills, WI---------------------------RCI----$437
Christmas Mountain Village, WI----RCI----$412
Lake Forest Resort, WI--------------RCI----$394
Villas at Giant Ridge, MN-------------RCI----$350
French Lick Springs Villas, IN-------RCI/II--$345

For comparison, 230 points at OKW would be about $780.

 

[Chuck S]

Thanks for the comparison, Doc. It puts our DVC dues in perspective, and while on the "high side" of the list, certainly not unreasonable.

 

[RobDoc]

It puts our DVC dues in perspective, and while on the "high side" of the list, certainly not unreasonable.

...and for those able to utilize their points in a studio, on weekdays, in low season- it amounts to far more than 7 days. OKW, in a studio in Sept, early Dec and Jan would get you 28+ days for that $780.

For the most part, the timeshares listed in the comparison are all 2BR units, which sleep either 6 or 8... and cannot be divided into smaller units. (Some of those listed are lock-off units and can be divided into 2 1BR units)

The point is, that depending on how you use your DVC membership, it can really be a bargain, compared with other timeshares.

 

[littlestar]

Thanks Doc.

My husband and I were just talking about what a bargain we get for our points. We have 210 points and in 2004 we plan on taking two six day trips and one seven day trip in a studio. Basically we're getting three trips out of our points. Just got our dues statement and they are $771.59. Gotta love DVC.

That's 19 days for us in 2004. Just for the heck of it, we compared paying cash for those nights at $250 a night (that's figuring a discounted rate) and that adds up to $4,750. If you figure rack rate, it's even more. You can't beat the deal DVC is for staying at Disney's deluxe properties!

 

[JudithM]

Interesting ... thank for sharing this info, Doc!

 

[Doctor P]

Very interesting, Doc. There are a lot of timeshares on your list that have solicited us to buy, so it is interesting to have a comparison and to know what the market is.

 

[Lisa P.]

That's quite an interesting comparative - thank you for posting it. Since they would be for 2BRs during all school break periods, and since most families with children (who would need a 2BR) need to travel during school breaks, the fairest comparison for those families is at least 296 points... or about $1,000 if owned at OKW. JMHO.

In exchange for the different location (WDW), its amenities, the flexibility to reduce unit size as needed and the ability to drop weekends, if one wished to, there is real value to DVC, so I'm not meaning to knock it. But a fair comparison would compare like-size units during the times of year when most people would wish to use their timeshare and most desire to own. Certainly, the midwest timeshares are, by far, more desirable during summer school break months.

I'm sure none of those other timeshares would cost anywhere near the $18,000 on resale that a 2BR DVC summer week would cost either. But then... they are not DVC!

 

[mikesmom]

Lisa...
If I am reading the post correctly, it says "fixed week". Doesn't that mean that a few people who were lucky enough to get a week during breaks and holidays always have that available, but the others are locked into other weeks? They are all the same price season-wise, but there is no flexibility? Doc, am I interpreting that right?

That pretty much messes up comparing only with "the time when most people would wish to use their timeshare". Pity the poor family who bought Easter break which changes every year! Their week is only convenient once in a while!

 

[cramam]

Doc, thanks for the info. I have tried to search and see what the OKW maintenance fee per point is this year. Can you tell me? It seems that my bill has increased over last year. This may be due to it being an estimate. Also, I think in years past their has been a credit for unused funds. Thank you

 

[RobDoc]

Here are the DVC maintenance fees for 2003. OKW is actually reduced another.10 for the excess property tax collected for 2002 and most others will have a similar reduction.

OKW- $3.49
HH - $3.69
BCV - $3.97
VWL- $4.05
BWV- $4.10
VB - $4.37

Yes, mikesmom, these are all fixed week timeshares (you would own week 14 every year). You would need to use an exchange company (like RCI or II) to get a different week or a different location.

lisap, you are correct that a true comparison would use 2BR point cost maintenance fees for similar weeks. My point above was that, at these resorts, reserving a 1BR or Studio is not usually an option- thus reducing the flexibility we enjoy with DVC. New purchase costs at these locations were based on the time period of the week you'd own (more desirable weeks cost more, less desirable cost less) and original purchase prices were similar to DVC. Resale purchase bargains abound because most of these resorts are sold out and the developer has no interest in artificially maintaining the resale value as Disney does with it's ROFR.

 

[DeeCee735]

BWV went up from 3.94 to 4.11 - still a bargin for the amount of nights a family of four can spend in a studio - even on my little 185 points a year! Best thing we ever did!

 

[MMCD]

maintenance fees to post for comparison?

MMCD

 

[Lisa P.]

Here are some of Marriott's annual maint/taxes/assessments totals for 2003. Looking at them, you'll see why Marriott has been gaining a reputation for being one of the most expensive timeshare management companies in the industry. All of these figures are for 2BRs that include all prime/platinum season weeks (even Christmas ski, Easter Orlando & July 4th beach) - so comparing with 296 OKW points is reasonable (especially since this is Magic season, not Premier). As far as flexibility, many of these weeks are lock-outs (1BR + studio), most are floating platinum weeks and, some are part of the Florida Club, which permits split week stays.

South Carolina
Barony Beach $677.19
Grande Ocean $718.41
Harbour Club $679.39
Harbor Point $555.64
Swallowtail $604.00

New Jersey
Fairway Villas $669.00

Virginia
Manor Club $581.89

Florida
Cypress Harbour $664.82
Grand Vista $673.44
Horizons - Orlando $553.67
Royal Palm $695.00
Beach Place $839.07
Ocean Pointe $711.37

California
Desert Springs Villas $806.69
Newport Coast Villas $772.99

Utah
Summit Watch $760.45

Hawaii
Kauai Beach $1059.12
Maui Ocean $998.62

Aruba
Aruba Beach $780.44

Marriott has been discussed on TUG a great deal lately, as they have announced that they will not be renewing their contracts to manage a couple of the older Marriott timeshares on HHI. This changes things considerably for owners who purchased with the expectation that they would receive internal trade priority with other Marriotts. They are still nice vacation condos for those families but anything can change in this industry, even with a respected brand name timeshare company.

 

[BobH]

Once again I have learned a great deal from the post here - especially from Doc. I am a firm believer in the Value of DVC but I wonder what the thoughts of the other members are on the impact of the expiration date of DVC on its value? Do any of the other timeshares have similar expiration dates or are they owned indefinitely? I am 51 so obviously this is only an issue for me in that it will impact my children who will take over ownership at some point? Has anyone considered these points?

 

[Lisa P.]

...the impact of the expiration date of DVC on its value?

Any "right to use" (RTU) timeshare will see a decrease in dollar resale value as the number of years left dwindle. However, if you have "broken even" well prior to that time, then it shouldn't matter.

Do any of the other timeshares have similar expiration dates or are they owned indefinitely?

Generally, the other timeshares listed in this thread are owned outright... deed to real estate, without an expiration date. Some will have a date in their by-laws, after which the owners' association must vote on whether to sell the resort and divide the proceeds or whether to continue as a shared ownership vacation property for another set of years.

There are at least two common perspectives on the relative values of a RTU timeshare vs. deeded timeshare:

One says that most resort construction will not hold up much more than 40-50 years without requiring such major refurbishing that it is no loss to give the aging property back to the developer. Also, the duration will likely provide a long enough enjoyment for most people who can afford to buy it, perhaps plus a few years for their heirs.

The other says that truly valuable real estate is likely to still be valuable in 50 years (perhaps more so) and that a deeded property's land sale would benefit the owners/members who maintained it rather than the developer, as in a RTU. They point to those (far fewer) nicely managed, older (perhaps historic) seaside, mountain and urban resorts that continue to draw a high occupancy after 50-100+ years. There is also the question as to whether a RTU resort's management will increase maint fees in the last decade to keep the resort pristine for the date when it will revert to the developer.

 

[BobH]

Lisa - thank you for taking the time to address the questions I posted. I found the information on "right to use" timeshares vs more traditional deeded timeshares very helpful. Would you happen to know if DVC was the first to develop the right to use timeshare concept - are their any others out there that could be studied to determine at what point values may start to decline. Obviously they have only increased over the first ten years since OKW was first sold. I find this topic interesting from the perspective that ordinary residential construction is obviously useful far in exceess of 40 to 50 years. I would expect Disney might simply sell the ownership interests again when 2042 rolls around. It looks to me like they have discovered a potential perpetual money making machine as long as WDW remains an entertainment magnet.

 

[RobDoc]

DVC was not the first to offer a RTU timeshare. (I don't have any other examples to offer at this moment though.)

Most timeshares have no desire or means to support the resale market like DVC does and lose their value quickly. Most developers do not build multiple timeshares in one location and once a resort sells out, the developer is long gone. (Certainly, there are some like Marriott with multiple resorts at one location, but these are the exception).

Because DVC has, thus far, artificially propped up the resale market, we have somewhat of an unrealistic understanding of the usual resale market. In the case of most timeshares, once a resort is sold to a specified level, the owners association has the responsibility to choose a management company. (There are professional corporations to fill this need.) Some will enlist the aid of one of these professional managers, others will try to handle the operation themselves locally. DVC has pretty much stacked the deck so owners must use Disney management- we can enlist our own management provider, but then must negotiate with Disney for services and lose most exchange programs currently provided by Disney.

As for when will the resale value decline, I think it will decline only when DVC lowers it's interest in FROF. As long as DVD is still building new resorts for sale, they have a vested interest in supporting the resale value. Once they no longer have a sales staff, there will be no reason to maintain an artificially high resale pricing. They would still be free to exercise FROF as time grows closer to 2042, thus buying back- at a low cost- inventory for CRO rental.

Stay Tuned!

 

[MMCD]

I believe they will expire in 2010's.

There are many timeshares in Mexico that have an expiration date.

Thanks Lisa P. for listing the Marriott's fees.

MMCD