Thoughts on why crowds are lower this summer so far??

[katyjeka]

I was waiting on today to comment on several posts I've read in this thread. We've been visiting WDW since 1993 on a yearly basis.I remember the mornings I would wake up early, 180 days before our trip to make our dining reservations and still struggled to get some we desired. This is the first year that I've been able to get everything we want without an issue. Actually everything was available on several days. This is the first time this has ever happened in all of my years of planning. I know this is not an indicator of crowd level at parks but it does show a decline in the amount of people eating at table service restaurants. I've also noticed several special events with availability, MNSSHP has openings on everyday but Halloween night. I can remember years that I've switched airfare because the party was sold out. I was also able to book Epcot fireworks dinner which I've only been able to get a couple times in previous years. I understand people are still visiting but I do believe everything I've mentioned above is an indicator that people are going elsewhere. Price is a factor, as well as the state of the economy. When we visited early December 2021 the crowd level was insane. I mentioned to someone in our group how surprised I was with the amount of people and a cast member overheard and stated this is our stimulus crowd. We live by a small amusement park in western Pa. and spent the fourth of July walking around an empty park. This is the first year we watched fireworks and no one was around. I do believe amusement park sales are down and more people are opting for less expensive escapes. Example, we can take our 4 kids to a beach, which is free with the exception of parking, and spend a day for very little money. When the economy improves I believe the amusement park industry will pick up. Vacations are a luxury and one of the first things to take a hit when someone is struggling. I've also worked for Hilton for over 25 years and our numbers are down. People who normally spend two nights are switching to one and we are seeing less wedding blocks filled. Our rooms have doubled in price in the last two years and it reflects on our numbers. I'm not standing up for Disney and yes the price is crazy but they are on par with how the travel industry is going. We recently visited Niagara Falls for the weekend. We had almost $2000 into a weekend trip which is crazy considering the main attraction is free. Just my thought on the topic.

 

[DCLMP]

I was waiting on today to comment on several posts I've read in this thread. We've been visiting WDW since 1993 on a yearly basis.I remember the mornings I would wake up early, 180 days before our trip to make our dining reservations and still struggled to get some we desired. This is the first year that I've been able to get everything we want without an issue. Actually everything was available on several days. This is the first time this has ever happened in all of my years of planning. I know this is not an indicator of crowd level at parks but it does show a decline in the amount of people eating at table service restaurants. I've also noticed several special events with availability, MNSSHP has openings on everyday but Halloween night. I can remember years that I've switched airfare because the party was sold out. I was also able to book Epcot fireworks dinner which I've only been able to get a couple times in previous years. I understand people are still visiting but I do believe everything I've mentioned above is an indicator that people are going elsewhere. Price is a factor, as well as the state of the economy. When we visited early December 2021 the crowd level was insane. I mentioned to someone in our group how surprised I was with the amount of people and a cast member overheard and stated this is our stimulus crowd. We live by a small amusement park in western Pa. and spent the fourth of July walking around an empty park. This is the first year we watched fireworks and no one was around. I do believe amusement park sales are down and more people are opting for less expensive escapes. Example, we can take our 4 kids to a beach, which is free with the exception of parking, and spend a day for very little money. When the economy improves I believe the amusement park industry will pick up. Vacations are a luxury and one of the first things to take a hit when someone is struggling. I've also worked for Hilton for over 25 years and our numbers are down. People who normally spend two nights are switching to one and we are seeing less wedding blocks filled. Our rooms have doubled in price in the last two years and it reflects on our numbers. I'm not standing up for Disney and yes the price is crazy but they are on par with how the travel industry is going. We recently visited Niagara Falls for the weekend. We had almost $2000 into a weekend trip which is crazy considering the main attraction is free. Just my thought on the topic.

I agree with what you said. I think were just in the beginning stage of the downturn. I think things will get a lot worse before they get better.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

we are seeing less wedding blocks filled.

Last weekend is when I found out that Airbnb now has hotel bookings on their website. It got brought up because my sister-in-law and her boyfriend are going to a wedding and were given the information for the hotel room booking for rooms blocked. They checked the price and it was crazy high. They checked Airbnb (because they book there more often for other lodging when they go on vacation) and the same hotel, same room was less than half the cost as if booking through the hotel via the wedding block.

 

[Minnesota!]

My bank account disagrees with all of that. I work twice as much to maintain my lifestyle of four years ago. Every single thing I buy and every bill I have has gone up by a lot. My electric bill is up 50% for example. Don’t get me started on food.

I do think this is regional - maybe even hyper-regional. The only thing I see that costs more, on a usual shopping trip, is eggs. And that varies almost weekly. I paid just over $1/dozen last shopping trip, today's shopping trip they were just over $2/dozen. Literally everything else (including my property taxes, insurance, etc.) has gone down in the last 4 years. And my 401k doubled.

Yes, it is important to note that a rising tide does not lift ALL boats.

I love this quote!

At this point, I'm hoping that all the usual July Disney people didn't decide to go in August this year instead. I'm also hoping that the new lightning lane makes people decide to hold off on their spur of the moment trips until there is more info available. For purely selfish reasons, I'm hoping that this trend of relatively lighter than usual crowds holds through the middle of August.

Same. I am hoping they all booked for October on. Would love to walk onto all the rides next month

 

[focusondisney]

TP had parks as 4 - 6 the last 2 days. MK was a 2 or 3 a few times over the last week. But crowd levels 4, 5 & 6 really doesn’t seem like empty parks to me, more like average crowds.

 

[SL6827]

They would have to discount it all the way to free for me to come in the summer heat.

 

[disneyseniors]

I do think this is regional - maybe even hyper-regional. The only thing I see that costs more, on a usual shopping trip, is eggs. And that varies almost weekly. I paid just over $1/dozen last shopping trip, today's shopping trip they were just over $2/dozen. Literally everything else (including my property taxes, insurance, etc.) has gone down in the last 4 years. And my 401k doubled.



I love this quote!



Same. I am hoping they all booked for October on. Would love to walk onto all the rides next month

I see you are from Minnesota, too.
I think all of this is very regional.
Our property taxes went up several hundred dollars this year! They said that the city was trying to catch up from not raising enough in previous years! and that our area was very desirable now.......... Excuses IMO. It was a BIG jump for us.
The food prices are a lot more than they used to be here. If eggs cost 1 dollar a dozen here, the store would be bought out. I just paid 5.25 for 18 large eggs this AM. All costs on food are up, especially meat. It's ridiculous. I don't know how people are able to buy the necessities along with increases in insurance, property taxes, and utilities.
Our area may be a rarity, but I would think not.
I'm glad your area of Mn. is not affected, but our area is noticably more expensive.

 

[katyjeka]

Last weekend is when I found out that Airbnb now has hotel bookings on their website. It got brought up because my sister-in-law and her boyfriend are going to a wedding and were given the information for the hotel room booking for rooms blocked. They checked the price and it was crazy high. They checked Airbnb (because they book there more often for other lodging when they go on vacation) and the same hotel, same room was less than half the cost as if booking through the hotel via the wedding block.

Our standard rate is $179.00 per night. When we first became a Hampton property we were getting $99.00 a night. Our wedding blocks are $149.00 a night which in my opinion is not a big enough discount.

 

[DeeBee3]

do think this is regional - maybe even hyper-regional. The only thing I see that costs more, on a usual shopping trip, is eggs. And that varies almost weekly. I paid just over $1/dozen last shopping trip, today's shopping trip they were just over $2/dozen. Literally everything else (including my property taxes, insurance, etc.) has gone down in the last 4 years. And my 401k doubled.

Wow! You are lucky. Here in NY (state) everything is higher. Significantly higher. The eggs were really crazy a year or two ago and now they are "normal" like what you were quoting, but everything else is high. Packaged goods, milk, fruit, meat is astronomical, take out, gas, utilities, prescriptions, literally everything I buy on a monthly basis is extremely high.

The stock market has been great so the 401k seems about right. Count your blessings, I guess!

 

[DCLMP]

Wow! You are lucky. Here in NY (state) everything is higher. Significantly higher. The eggs were really crazy a year or two ago and now they are "normal" like what you were quoting, but everything else is high. Packaged goods, milk, fruit, meat is astronomical, take out, gas, utilities, prescriptions, literally everything I buy on a monthly basis is extremely high.

The stock market has been great so the 401k seems about right. Count your blessings, I guess!

The stock market has no correlation to main street and never has. Most people don't know how to trade in and out of things. All that takes is some bank failure or other black swan event to wipe everyone out.

People tend to judge the economy on their own personal situation and don't look at the big picture or the implications for the future.

 

[DCLMP]

I see you are from Minnesota, too.
I think all of this is very regional.
Our property taxes went up several hundred dollars this year! They said that the city was trying to catch up from not raising enough in previous years! and that our area was very desirable now.......... Excuses IMO. It was a BIG jump for us.
The food prices are a lot more than they used to be here. If eggs cost 1 dollar a dozen here, the store would be bought out. I just paid 5.25 for 18 large eggs this AM. All costs on food are up, especially meat. It's ridiculous. I don't know how people are able to buy the necessities along with increases in insurance, property taxes, and utilities.
Our area may be a rarity, but I would think not.
I'm glad your area of Mn. is not affected, but our area is noticably more expensive.

Prices seem to have stabilized the last 6 months, but over the last 3 years I've seen 30-100% increase on a lot of the things I buy. Everyone mentions eggs and kind of leaves out everything else.
I'm going to Costco today today. I haven't been in a month. We shall see if there's any deals.

 

[J-Dog]

At this point, pretty much every point made in this thread has been rehashed at least 4 times.

 

[Minnie1222]

TP had parks as 4 - 6 the last 2 days. MK was a 2 or 3 a few times over the last week. But crowd levels 4, 5 & 6 really doesn’t seem like empty parks to me, more like average crowds.

Agreed! It's just an average summer day at Disney. Post #435 has the actual data supporting the fact that summer has been a slow season years before Covid. I don't know why some people are so worried for Disney.

 

[Minnesota!]

I see you are from Minnesota, too.
I think all of this is very regional.
Our property taxes went up several hundred dollars this year! They said that the city was trying to catch up from not raising enough in previous years! and that our area was very desirable now.......... Excuses IMO. It was a BIG jump for us.
The food prices are a lot more than they used to be here. If eggs cost 1 dollar a dozen here, the store would be bought out. I just paid 5.25 for 18 large eggs this AM. All costs on food are up, especially meat. It's ridiculous. I don't know how people are able to buy the necessities along with increases in insurance, property taxes, and utilities.
Our area may be a rarity, but I would think not.
I'm glad your area of Mn. is not affected, but our area is noticably more expensive.

I gasped at your eggs!! I am in the cities, but we have a summer place up near Superior. The difference in groceries at home and up there is noticeable. Which sucks because the wages are lower in those small towns. Mayo here - $3. Mayo there - $8 (only one I recall off the top of my head from this last journey to the store up there).

We buy a cow every few years, so I don't know about beef prices, but I get chicken for about $1.89/lb (as of today). Milk is about 2.30/gal., etc. I have always been a meal-planner and shopped frugally for groceries, so maybe that has helped? The stuff we have always eaten has not taken a hit (fresh produce, eggs, beans, grains)?

Utilities have stayed the same or gone down (also had a kid move out of state, so that probably helped). Gas is minimal most of the year since I WFH and DH only has a 7 mile drive. Escrow analysis just came in last week and our taxes and insurance went down so much that our monthly mortgage payment is going down a TON.

I know we are fortunate to not feel a pinch as other areas of the country (and state) have, but that is just why I posted originally - some people are doing better than ever, which might contribute to the influx of traveling, new cars, new houses, etc.

 

[SL6827]

It's Satans's armpit!! (who ever coined that phrase )

 

[DisneyFive]

At this point, pretty much every point made in this thread has been rehashed at least 4 times.

but. we. must. keep. making. our. point.

 

[DCLMP]

At this point, pretty much every point made in this thread has been rehashed at least 4 times.

I think it's been more interesting than most threads. No one is forcing you to read it.

 

[DeeBee3]

The stock market has no correlation to main street and never has. Most people don't know how to trade in and out of things. All that takes is some bank failure or other black swan event to wipe everyone out.

People tend to judge the economy on their own personal situation and don't look at the big picture or the implications for the future.

Exactly my point - some people see the stocks or wall street and think "it's doing well or going up" hence the 401ks. Then you look at your grocery bill and it doesn't matter.

 

[Minnie1222]

At this point, pretty much every point made in this thread has been rehashed at least 4 times.

Only 4 times? I've been rehashing the "low crowds" issue for the past 11 months across multiple threads on the Dis.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

A thread like this has been started every summer for the last 8 years at least.