There's a dog in my yard!!

[stitch'sgirl]

Question for the experts here. I have 2 golden retrievers. Our neighbor has a purse-type tiny dog who thinks he is a German Shepherd.

We both have chain link fenced-in yards. Louie, the tiny dog, has found his way into our yard a few times. My husband is constantly reinforcing the bottom of the fence to keep Louie in his own yard.

This morning at 5 am I turned on my kitchen light and Louie was standing at my door wall yapping at me. It scared the daylights out of me. There was no light on at the neighbor's house and I am wondering if they left him out all night.

So my question is this. One of my Goldens thinks Louie is a bunny or other fair game. If she were to injure or *gasp* even kill Louie what would that mean? My golden is still a puppy and chases Louie around like one of her tennis balls. We are tired of delivering Louie to his owner. And worried sick something may happen to him. The neighbor is weird and I have seen her kids drop and throw Louie from shoulder height. When we take him to his owner they are anything but thankful.. I wanted to bang on her door at 5 am but all of lights were out and I didn't want to be late for work anyway.

Any ideas? Do I need to be worried if something happens to him in our yard?

 

[RogueX]

I'm not sure if you'd be responsible, that might vary state to state, but perhaps contact animal control for suggestions.

My sister had an issue where one of her neighbors dogs kept jumping the fence and getting into her yard. He was always allowed to roam free and his owners didn't care.

One day when my sister's pitbull was on a lead in her yard (only part of her yard is fenced in), the dog came in and attacked her dog who could only defend himself within the length of the lead. $800 vet bill later in injuries on her dog, the owners of the dog said it wasn't their problem that their dog attacked her dog.

 

[Christine]

Question for the experts here. I have 2 golden retrievers. Our neighbor has a purse-type tiny dog who thinks he is a German Shepherd.

We both have chain link fenced-in yards. Louie, the tiny dog, has found his way into our yard a few times. My husband is constantly reinforcing the bottom of the fence to keep Louie in his own yard.

This morning at 5 am I turned on my kitchen light and Louie was standing at my door wall yapping at me. It scared the daylights out of me. There was no light on at the neighbor's house and I am wondering if they left him out all night.

So my question is this. One of my Goldens thinks Louie is a bunny or other fair game. If she were to injure or *gasp* even kill Louie what would that mean? My golden is still a puppy and chases Louie around like one of her tennis balls. We are tired of delivering Louie to his owner. And worried sick something may happen to him. The neighbor is weird and I have seen her kids drop and throw Louie from shoulder height. When we take him to his owner they are anything but thankful.. I wanted to bang on her door at 5 am but all of lights were out and I didn't want to be late for work anyway.

Any ideas? Do I need to be worried if something happens to him in our yard?

The law will vary depending on where you live. However, generally, if another animal enters your property and something happens like this then I think any reasonable animal control officer would understand that. All dogs have varying levels of prey drive from nothing to very high. The bad situations are if your dog's prey drive is high enough that it's jumping fences and going after other animals off property. You do have to be very careful with larger dogs and small dogs. For a dog with some prey drive a smaller dog doesn't always register in their brain as a "dog." It's all very instinctual and basically if something small and furry catches their eye it triggers a mechanism to chase down and get that thing. Unfortunately, I learned all this the hard way when one of my dogs killed a very tiny dog that I had. It is something I will never get over. But this dog had a high prey drive for things like squirrels, rabbits and things. I had no clue and should never have had a smaller dog.

But I digress, as a posted stated above, I'd actually call Animal Control in your area and just explain the situation and ask what your liability might be. Be very clear that you do NOT have a dangerous dog by any stretch of the imagination but that your dog views Louie as a squirrel.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

Although a goldie may carry a small dog, they are so soft mouthed, that I would be astonished if it was hurt. Can you call a dog warden?

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

I would definitely look into your local and state laws. While I have a tiny dog, I keep her close to me at all times. When we had our old dog who was a beagle, the people behind us had two tiny dogs, one of which was a Jack russell who while lovable was also totally chaotic, he once managed to get onto our front yard after digging a hole under the fence in our neighbors yard. The owners of the Jack russell put up a fence around the chain link, and our neighbors put up a fence of their own to replace their chain link not long after. Couldn’t risk it again.

 

[stitch'sgirl]

The law will vary depending on where you live. However, generally, if another animal enters your property and something happens like this then I think any reasonable animal control officer would understand that. All dogs have varying levels of prey drive from nothing to very high. The bad situations are if your dog's prey drive is high enough that it's jumping fences and going after other animals off property. You do have to be very careful with larger dogs and small dogs. For a dog with some prey drive a smaller dog doesn't always register in their brain as a "dog." It's all very instinctual and basically if something small and furry catches their eye it triggers a mechanism to chase down and get that thing. Unfortunately, I learned all this the hard way when one of my dogs killed a very tiny dog that I had. It is something I will never get over. But this dog had a high prey drive for things like squirrels, rabbits and things. I had no clue and should never have had a smaller dog.

But I digress, as a posted stated above, I'd actually call Animal Control in your area and just explain the situation and ask what your liability might be. Be very clear that you do NOT have a dangerous dog by any stretch of the imagination but that your dog views Louie as a squirrel.

Thanks for describing this so eloquently. This is exactly how my dog acts. She doesn't think through things and acts on instinct. Heck, she was hyper stimulated when a Progessive commercial with a bunch of cats came on last night.

 

[mamamary]

I have no idea of liability but when we first bought our house a neighbor's dog got into the yard of my next door neighbor and killed it. They kept to themselves so I never really heard what happened after that.

 

[ronandannette]

Legally liable or not, it will be earth-shattering for both you and them if something happens. A dear friend of mine had exactly the same situation and her black lab did kill the little dog - it was horrible for everyone and she still has nightmares about it.

Talk to your neighbors TODAY. Let them know what’s happening and that you simply can’t prevent the dog from getting in despite your most prudent efforts. Put the onus 100% on them to keep their dog off your property. Make sure there’s no room for misunderstanding and follow up with a letter stating the same, with you keeping a copy and the date of delivery. Then hope for the best. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this stress through no fault of your own.

 

[stitch'sgirl]

Legally liable or not, it will be earth-shattering for both you and them if something happens. A dear friend of mine had exactly the same situation and her black lab did kill the little dog - it was horrible for everyone and she still has nightmares about it.

Talk to your neighbors TODAY. Let them know what’s happening and that you simply can’t prevent the dog from getting in despite your most prudent efforts. Put the onus 100% on them to keep their dog off your property. Make sure there’s no room for misunderstanding and follow up with a letter stating the same, with you keeping a copy and the date of delivery. Then hope for the best. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this stress through no fault of your own.

Thanks for the suggestion - my husband has been dealing with the neighbor part of it. I'll start working on a letter.

I would certainly be heartbroken for my dog too - she really is sweet but having a tough time learning the appropriate level of play. And for my son, and for the neighbor's kids. And as well as for the neighbors behind us who have often gently retrieved Louie and put him in his own yard.

Unfortunately I don't think this lady was ready for the responsibilities of dog ownership and only got the dog to entertain her kids. But that's another topic!!

 

[easyas123]

I'd actually call Animal Control in your area and just explain the situation and ask what your liability might be. Be very clear that you do NOT have a dangerous dog by any stretch of the imagination but that your dog views Louie as a squirrel.

Seems like a good step to take, and creates a record of your concerns ahead of any possible issues that might arise.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm going to disagree with people here. The viewpoint being talked about is just animal control and thus likely just a police matter. However, that does not mean the neighbor couldn't take you to court over the loss of their dog and consequences happen from that and they may very well win if the issue is deemed your dog was an aggressive enough dog (your talk of fair game which equals prey probably doesn't help even though behaviorally your dog may not be aggressive) although the treatment you've seen the neighbor give their dog also doesn't help their case. I could see this as a very real possibility regardless of whether it was truly in your control. Things like was your dog left unattended in the yard often come into play. There's been situations in the news talking about dogs with concerns over biting when it comes to police coming to the house or mail being delivered.

IMO I think the only recourse you truly have since reinforcement of the fence hasn't worked is to first try and talk with the neighbor (be firm about it). After that I would contact your local animal control, but make yourself aware of any ordinances regarding responsibilities pet owners have. It may be that there is something in there about the neighbor not taking adequate action to prevent their dog from going into other people's yards. Removal of their dog could be the thing to occur.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I might take a different approach and try to get to know the dog, and teach my dogs how to get to know the dog, so they understand it’s a dog (which I’m sure they do, dogs are smarter than we give them credit for), and understand it’s a smaller dog who they should realize belongs in the area (albeit in his own yard next door). That said, even under the best training circumstances, a dog cannot be relied upon 100% that it won’t hurt another do that’s running or scared, as others have said, once prey drive kicks in, especially with two dogs when the “gang effect” takes place (even with good dogs) where they do things together they wouldn’t necessarily do individually, sort of like a bar room brawl, one starts it and the other jumps in, maybe not starting out to hurt, maim or kill, but things get out of hand as adrenaline and other stress hormones kick in, etc.

I’ve been on both sides - having large dogs, and two at once, as well as a small dog. Dogs of all sizes can get along but it depends on a lot of things, and how they are trained and socialized, as well as what type of limit setting they are given. Go to any dog park and you will see owners allowing their dogs to do whatever they want and them not trying to help curb or direct their misbehavior. I was at one once where a lady came in with two dogs who immediately started ganging up on another young dog who was terrified, and it was escalating to where the young dog was getting hurt and bitten. All the time the owner was standing chatting with someone else and laughing at the behavior. I had to literally chase the two dogs off the younger dog (whose owner also had no clue that her dog was getting mauled). Unfortunately this isn’t uncommon. Lots of owners out there who really don’t understand dog behavior and dog etiquette (which is better learned in a dog training class). That said, it sounds like the neighbors are these types of owners. Really small dogs aren’t supposed to be with children who can’t treat them carefully and respectfully. Bones are broken and worse, all the time in these situations.

Thank you for caring about the little dog. I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea to talk about your concerns to the neighbor and possibly Animal Control, for your own protection, and also for the good of the little dog. Maybe they’ll place it with another family who can better care for it (ie keep it safe and treat it right). Good luck.

 

[EMom]

What a blessing it would be for Louie to find himself in a new, loving home where he wasn’t thrown, dropped, or neglected..,

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Really small dogs aren’t supposed to be with children who can’t treat them carefully and respectfully. Bones are broken and worse, all the time in these situations

Honestly at this point I wouldn't bring a child around my sister-in-law's Pomeranian. The dog is extremely like the most I've ever seen territorial to her. If you get anywhere near that dog when he is in her arms or near her you'd get aggressively snapped ate, bit and growled at and the high pitched barks. That dog can be sweet as can be but a vicious dangerous dog in the wrong situation. I'd trust the Old English Sheepdogs I grew up around at my dad's house 100% but would never ever trust that Pomeranian around children. I would trust the other Pomeranian that my mother-in-law has but that one was beaten down into submission due to a prior Pomeranian (Cupcake) mother-in-law owned that would gang up and terrorize the other one (and that is also a Pomeranian I'm surprised they had around kids because Cupcake was also very vicious and aggressive). The in-laws gave away Cupcake to another family not due to the vicious bully behavior but rather she was tired of the barking

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Honestly at this point I wouldn't bring a child around my sister-in-law's Pomeranian. The dog is extremely like the most I've ever seen territorial to her. If you get anywhere near that dog when he is in her arms or near her you'd get aggressively snapped ate, bit and growled at and the high pitched barks. That dog can be sweet as can be but a vicious dangerous dog in the wrong situation. I'd trust the Old English Sheepdogs I grew up around at my dad's house 100% but would never ever trust that Pomeranian around children. I would trust the other Pomeranian that my mother-in-law has but that one was beaten down into submission due to a prior Pomeranian (Cupcake) mother-in-law owned that would gang up and terrorize the other one (and that is also a Pomeranian I'm surprised they had around kids because Cupcake was also very vicious and aggressive). The in-laws gave away Cupcake to another family not due to the vicious bully behavior but rather she was tired of the barking

“Lap aggression” is a real phenomenon. It develops when people inadvertently reinforce the behavior when it starts, by things like laughing at it’s “cuteness”, patting it while it’s snarling and growling, or enjoying the “protection” the dog offers, etc. Owners of small dogs need to be very careful not to promote this type of behavior. Dogs have to be treated like dogs, not children. Even when it comes from an abusive situation. The dog will understand and thrive on kindness and rules, not coddling. I was at the MSPCA one day about to adopt my first small dog. She was sitting in my lap, when my German Shepherd, who we’d introduced carefully (and even walked around the building together) came over to me and the little dog bit her in the face - twice! The manager squashed the adoption saying it wasn’t fair to my old dog to have to put up with that crap. It also happened with the second small dog we tried to adopt, even when the rescue wasn’t truthful about it to us. (Thankfully the foster mom overheard and told us.) We wound up getting a small (to us) dog from a breeder and made sure he did not become lap aggressive. I think small dogs also get overhandled, between picking them up, and the dreaded grooming, so they get sensitive to being touched, and they only have one way to defend themselves if their warnings aren’t heeded, especially around children, who they know are vulnerable. Not making excuses for small dogs, just sharing what I’ve seen. I am also seeing some worrying trends with larger dogs, too, when people deliberately tease them and make them snarl and growl. These types of videos are all over Instagram (Reels). It’s abusive, and unfair. Don’t be surprised when a dog bites some innocent soul when they least expect it because they’ve been trained to do this. Sad days for dogs.

Sorry for the rant, but these types of things make me mad.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

“Lap aggression” is a real phenomenon. It develops when people inadvertently reinforce the behavior when it starts, by things like laughing at it’s “cuteness”, patting it while it’s snarling and growling, or enjoying the “protection” the dog offers, etc. Owners of small dogs need to be very careful not to promote this type of behavior. Dogs have to be treated like dogs, not children. Even when it comes from an abusive situation. The dog will understand and thrive on kindness and rules, not coddling. I was at the MSPCA one day about to adopt my first small dog. She was sitting in my lap, when my German Shepherd, who we’d introduced carefully (and even walked around the building together) came over to me and the little dog bit her in the face - twice! The manager squashed the adoption saying it wasn’t fair to my old dog to have to put up with that crap. It also happened with the second small dog we tried to adopt, even when the rescue wasn’t truthful about it to us. (Thankfully the foster mom overheard and told us.) We wound up getting a small (to us) dog from a breeder and made sure he did not become lap aggressive. I think small dogs also get overhandled, between picking them up, and the dreaded grooming, so they get sensitive to being touched, and they only have one way to defend themselves if their warnings aren’t heeded, especially around children, who they know are vulnerable. Not making excuses for small dogs, just sharing what I’ve seen. I am also seeing some worrying trends with larger dogs, too, when people deliberately tease them and make them snarl and growl. These types of videos are all over Instagram (Reels). It’s abusive, and unfair. Don’t be surprised when a dog bites some innocent soul when they least expect it because they’ve been trained to do this. Sad days for dogs.

Sorry for the rant, but these types of things make me mad.

This! We have a small dog. It’s been very difficult since we had her training so well and then the pandemic happened. She is totally fearless so our joke is she is a six pound dog who thinks she’s a 600 pound bear the way she jumps off the couch and runs around. She naturally barks when she hears something or the doorbell goes off, but it also eventually turned into aggression against our poor mail woman. We have no idea what happened other than we were all forced to be home and she must’ve thought anyone not us was coming over to hurt us. We have to constantly keep reminding her it’s ok (usually we say “thank you it’s ok it’s xyz” for her to calm down and she is slowly but surely getting better). Obviously we know she will protect us should anything happen but we also want her to know that some people are safe.
What also needs to be watched out for with small dogs is how they interact with other dogs. A few months ago I was walking my dog and someone was parked in their car and their slightly bigger than mine but still little dog got excited and jumped out of the car and ran right at my dog. Startled the every living daylights out my normally very happy and excited to meet other dogs and humans dog. I was also concerned that the other dog just kept out like that and wasn’t be looked after. But the damage was done to my dog. She wouldn’t go on walks for a while. Our groomer after the first time we took her after that incident kept an eye out for her, and she recognized how different she was. She didn’t want to play with other dogs as much. She would just sit and watch. She’s now almost fully back to her interactive playful self but it sucked that it had to happen. She still has some issues that we are working on (her and our neighbors big old sweetie pie of a dog scared each other a couple weeks ago when they both were taken out at night and thought the other one was something not good-I’m talking barking at each other and me in the middle being like “it’s ok guys it’s us you’re good” so they both were just giant scaredy cats for a few days around each other) and she is slowly going for longer and longer walks each time, but it definitely took a toll on her being scared like that.
Regardless of size, you have to be careful in surroundings with other humans and other dogs. Especially small dogs, because some people just let them do as they please. And also know that not all people with small dogs or even other stereotyped dogs are actively trying to make them aggressive, things happen and we have to re train them and get the behavior out of them. It sucks but that’s unfortunately the way it is. And also please make sure you watch your dogs in general! As I said I was so worried about that other little dog because he could’ve easily gotten hurt or worse because his owner wasn’t watching him.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sorry for the rant, but these types of things make me mad.

Oh no rant away it makes me mad too. So many times the dogs are the ones who end up hurt, put to sleep, etc and it's usually not their fault

when people deliberately tease them and make them snarl and growl.

Yes absolutely! Even though this thread is about dogs I've seen this behavior with children. Parents or other adults goading the kids (whether they are their own or just part of their family) then getting a reaction and then getting mad or punishing the kid for exhibiting such reaction.

It was last summer I think when the other sister-in-law had her boyfriend and his 2 kids over to swim at the above ground pool the in-laws had. Cake was for dessert. The younger sibling (I think he was 2 or 3 at that time) who was already more high spirited was given some cake and his dad along with the sister-in-law and my mother-in-law were all goading the kid to be messy with the cake and just sorta be boisterous. I think they were thinking "oh he's so cute seeing his smile and laugh and his hands slapping the table" but then with all this goading the kid got more and more messy and was then throwing the cake on the table, not far but still. Then the kid took the plastic table protector and was playing with it and that's when mother-in-law starting getting upset and the dad yelled at the kid and was sternly talking to him like he had done something wrong.

I watched in disgust that these supposed adults couldn't see how their actions were the cause and this young toddler now has a meltdown and is being punished by leaving immediately and being yelled at by his dad all because he was pushed into it. I know a segue from the dog topic but it reminded me of that.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This! We have a small dog. It’s been very difficult since we had her training so well and then the pandemic happened. She is totally fearless so our joke is she is a six pound dog who thinks she’s a 600 pound bear the way she jumps off the couch and runs around. She naturally barks when she hears something or the doorbell goes off, but it also eventually turned into aggression against our poor mail woman. We have no idea what happened other than we were all forced to be home and she must’ve thought anyone not us was coming over to hurt us. We have to constantly keep reminding her it’s ok (usually we say “thank you it’s ok it’s xyz” for her to calm down and she is slowly but surely getting better). Obviously we know she will protect us should anything happen but we also want her to know that some people are safe.
What also needs to be watched out for with small dogs is how they interact with other dogs. A few months ago I was walking my dog and someone was parked in their car and their slightly bigger than mine but still little dog got excited and jumped out of the car and ran right at my dog. Startled the every living daylights out my normally very happy and excited to meet other dogs and humans dog. I was also concerned that the other dog just kept out like that and wasn’t be looked after. But the damage was done to my dog. She wouldn’t go on walks for a while. Our groomer after the first time we took her after that incident kept an eye out for her, and she recognized how different she was. She didn’t want to play with other dogs as much. She would just sit and watch. She’s now almost fully back to her interactive playful self but it sucked that it had to happen. She still has some issues that we are working on (her and our neighbors big old sweetie pie of a dog scared each other a couple weeks ago when they both were taken out at night and thought the other one was something not good-I’m talking barking at each other and me in the middle being like “it’s ok guys it’s us you’re good” so they both were just giant scaredy cats for a few days around each other) and she is slowly going for longer and longer walks each time, but it definitely took a toll on her being scared like that.
Regardless of size, you have to be careful in surroundings with other humans and other dogs. Especially small dogs, because some people just let them do as they please. And also know that not all people with small dogs or even other stereotyped dogs are actively trying to make them aggressive, things happen and we have to re train them and get the behavior out of them. It sucks but that’s unfortunately the way it is. And also please make sure you watch your dogs in general! As I said I was so worried about that other little dog because he could’ve easily gotten hurt or worse because his owner wasn’t watching him.

Aww, I’m sorry that happened to your dog! We have had it happen, too. If you know any super friendly dogs it might help to maybe let them see eachother and play together for a while to help get that sense of normalcy back. Be careful not to coddle her when she displays fearful behavior. Just keep acting like everything is fine and there is nothing to be fearful of. She will take her cues from you.

She naturally barks when she hears something or the doorbell goes off, but it also eventually turned into aggression against our poor mail woman. We have no idea what happened other than we were all forced to be home and she must’ve thought anyone not us was coming over to hurt us. We have to constantly keep reminding her it’s ok (usually we say “thank you it’s ok it’s xyz” for her to calm down and she is slowly but surely getting better).

What often happens in that situation, as the whole mailman thing is classic with dogs, is that (thinking like a dog here) the dog “wins” - the mailman came, the dog scared the mailman away, and the mailman left! In the dogs mind, there was cause and effect! And they get to “practice” this behavior every day! The term we use (that we learned from our trainer) is, “that’s enough”. It means stop. I don’t like using “OK” in that situation because OK to a dog is sort of a soothing thing, if you think about how often we use it, and could inadvertently also reinforce the behavior. Try using that’s enough, but also keeping the dog on a leash when the mail person comes and saying the words but also physically making him stop by bringing him over to you on the leash and pick him up facing you and say it loudly again. The shock of it will stop him. Then you praise him very much verbally when he stops. “Good boy.“ We also learned that curbing the behavior before it starts is also really helpful to situations. So if your dog understands sit and stay, then you use those before the mail person comes, and praise when he stays quiet, etc.

One of my favorite training books is Good Owners, Great Dogs, by Brian Kilcommons, sold on Amazon. Well worth a read!

 

[MomOfDisneyPrincess]

If Louie keeps coming into your yard it doesn't sound like he is afraid of your dogs, so maybe there is a little comfort in that, unless Louis is just stupid. Both of my dogs have been small dogs; a 9 lb toy poodle and now a 5 lb toy poodle and getting out of the yard is rather easy for them, even if they are not roamers.

My first dog found a way to escape my yard. Having let her out the back door into the backyard, I'd go calling for my dog in the backyard and she wasn't coming when called. I looked everywhere! Finally, I hear her outside the front door, opened it and there she was. I could not figure out how my dog was getting out of my fenced yard and onto my screened in front porch. It kept happening on Saturdays when I was home all day and I was stumped. Finally, one day I heard my front porch door open and close and looked out to see the mail women walking away. I opened the door and sure enough, there was my dog! The mail woman noticed me and paused to explain and was kind enough to show me approximately where the dog was coming from.

The fence on that side of the house came all the way up to the corner of the screened porch and was camouflaged by the decorative bushes. I put her in the backyard and walked around the front to see what she would do. She just sat there looking at me. I called her and poof, she was in the front yard with me. LOL! Upon further inspection, there was just enough room for her skinny little body to squeeze through the gap in the fence post and the corner of the foundation! Had I not have made and extra effort to clear away the overgrown sweat pea that year, she may never have found her secret passage. A few stray bricks stacked into that corner fixed the issue and she had to visit the mail woman from behind the fence after that.

All that to say, if your hubby wants to know exactly how Louie is getting in, he might use that technique. I had to do it again with my 5 lb little guy and sure enough, the post and the gate had just enough room for him to squeeze through, on both sides of the house! My daughter always knew to go check both gates after we had anyone do yard work to make sure our fence fortifying measures were still in place. Luckily, neither dog is/was a roamer and we only had to worry if there was a person on the other side of the fence that they wanted to meet and greet. Neither of them has ever met a stranger.

 

[momz]

My advice. Fix your fence. And send a certified letter to the neighbor explaining that you have repaired your fence and further encumbrances by their animal will result in you delivering the animal to animal control. In your letter, document the dates that you have spoken with them and what verbal agreements you have made together to solve the problem. Then acknowledge that because the verbal agreements have failed, you must take the step of putting your demands in writing.