The VGF 2 pricing thread

[SusieQ93]

I was sweating bullets when I bought VGF in late 2014. The minimum was 100pts at $165 and they wouldn't let me buy a smaller contract. So, 150pts at $200 is a pretty good size purchase. I didn't know anything about DVC, and I initially wanted Wilderness lodge, but VGF was what they were offering. They only told me it was sold out and I didn't know about resale. Very happy with our purchase and never looked back. Bought CCV direct instead of Riviera though because of the resale restrictions. We have stayed at Riviera a few times and totally fell in love with it. Now we own 2 resorts and love them both equally well.

I first went to a DVC presentation at California Adventure just because we wanted the three fastpasses they were offering, we thought “why not?” But had no intention of purchasing. At the time, they were offering, Aulani and CCV. I didn’t know anything about resale. Many months later at the beginning of the pandemic, I started researching and learned about resale. I have no idea why I started the research, most likely boredom and something to distract me from the fact that the world appeared to be ending. At the time, VGF really appealed to me but the lack of studios didn’t. Wish I would’ve bought in two years ago if I’d known more studios were coming! Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[DVCsloth]

I first went to a DVC presentation at California Adventure just because we wanted the three fastpasses they were offering, we thought “why not?” But had no intention of purchasing. At the time, they were offering, Aulani and CCV. I didn’t know anything about resale. Many months later at the beginning of the pandemic, I started researching and learned about resale. I have no idea why I started the research, most likely boredom and something to distract me from the fact that the world appeared to be ending. At the time, VGF really appealed to me but the lack of studios didn’t. Wish I would’ve bought in two years ago if I’d known more studios were coming! Hindsight is always 20/20.

I think VGF resale may drop some when they start selling VGF2 so it may be a good time to buy a resale if the restrictions don't bother you. I'm probably going to add another small direct contract at CCV because we like to book 1BR and since VGF2 is all studios it will not be very well balanced potentially making 1BR and larger harder to book. If it does, we'll just use VGF for studios and CCV for 1BR or see what others are open at 7 months.

 

[SusieQ93]

I think VGF resale may drop some when they start selling VGF2 so it may be a good time to buy a resale if the restrictions don't bother you. I'm probably going to add another small direct contract at CCV because we like to book 1BR and since VGF2 is all studios it will not be very well balanced potentially making 1BR and larger harder to book. If it does, we'll just use VGF for studios and CCV for 1BR or see what others are open at 7 months.

I think resale will dip too depending on the price Disney offers. But, it would have to dip quite a bit for me to think resale is worth it on VGF. The way I see it, the biggest cost is actually the maintenance fees over the life of the contract. So if over the life of the contract direct is $80k and resale is $75k, it’s just not with it to me to save $5k to have a contract that I can’t use at new resorts (especially DLT) and no blue card.

 

[DVCsloth]

I think resale will dip too depending on the price Disney offers. But, it would have to dip quite a bit for me to think resale is worth it on VGF. The way I see it, the biggest cost is actually the maintenance fees over the life of the contract. So if over the life of the contract direct is $80k and resale is $75k, it’s just not with it to me to save $5k to have a contract that I can’t use at new resorts (especially DLT) and no blue card.

I agree!

 

[SusieQ93]

I think resale will dip too depending on the price Disney offers. But, it would have to dip quite a bit for me to think resale is worth it on VGF. The way I see it, the biggest cost is actually the maintenance fees over the life of the contract. So if over the life of the contract direct is $80k and resale is $75k, it’s just not with it to me to save $5k to have a contract that I can’t use at new resorts (especially DLT) and no blue card.

Oh plus, when you buy resale, you have to wait such a long time for points and everything and your contract might be stripped. It’s my understanding when you buy direct, you immediately get points, then you get points at your use year. So I believe if we buy 150 pts in the spring, we get 150 pts immediately, then 150 more in September if I choose that use year. I believe that makes any savings on resale a total wash. Correct me if I’m wrong on how I understand points are given when you buy direct.

 

[DVCsloth]

Oh plus, when you buy resale, you have to wait such a long time for points and everything and your contract might be stripped. It’s my understanding when you buy direct, you immediately get points, then you get points at your use year. So I believe if we buy 150 pts in the spring, we get 150 pts immediately, then 150 more in September if I choose that use year. I believe that makes any savings on resale a total wash. Correct me if I’m wrong on how I understand points are given when you buy direct.

Yes, as long as they have the points available you will get current years points. I have a March use year and I bought in January or February, so I got the current use years points. I was so close to the next years points that I don't think I had to pay any dues for it either. I thought they would prorate a month or 2 but I didn't see it.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, as long as they have the points available you will get current years points. I have a March use year and I bought in January or February, so I got the current use years points. I was so close to the next years points that I don't think I had to pay any dues for it either. I thought they would prorate a month or 2 but I didn't see it.

Dues go on calendar year and have nothing to do with which points you get. Buying today will generate the same dues for a resort, even if some UYs get 2021 and Feb UY starts with 2022.

That is why some with a March UY hope to see VGF for sale before that date.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Totally. Which is why I don’t buy into the narrative that VGF is the superior resort and should be priced higher. Riviera is a very nice resort and I don’t think it behooves them to cheapen it and imply it’s inferior through pricing. It’s all so subjective.

But price does follow demand. Disney does not price all of their properties at the same price. There is a reason for that.

 

[DVCsloth]

Dues go on calendar year and have nothing to do with which points you get. Buying today will generate the same dues for a resort, even if some UYs get 2021 and Feb UY starts with 2022.

That is why some with a March UY hope to see VGF for sale before that date.

So, if I bought in April 2021 I would pay the same dues if I bought February 2022 for my 2021 points?

 

[SusieQ93]

Aulani and Riveria are priced the same but with different incentives. I don’t think demand for Aulani is anything close to Riveria and the prices really aren’t that different. Once there’s two million more points on the market for VGF, I’m not sure demand for the two will be hugely different.

 

[CarolynFH]

So, if I bought in April 2021 I would pay the same dues if I bought February 2022 for my 2021 points?

Someone who buys in April will pay 9/12 of the dues for that calendar year. It won't matter what their UY is. So someone who buys in April 2022 and has a February, March or April UY will get 2022 UY points while someone who buys in April 2022 and has an June or later UY will get 2021 UY points. But they will all pay the same dues because dues are based on calendar year.

 

[Sandisw]

So, if I bought in April 2021 I would pay the same dues if I bought February 2022 for my 2021 points?

you buy in 2021, you pay 2021 dues. If you buy on Feb 2022, you pay 2022 dues.

If you have an April UY, and buy today, you get 2021 points because you are still in your April 2021 UY.

So dues are not technically tied to the exact points but rather from date you become an owner.

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

Someone who buys in April will pay 9/12 of the dues for that calendar year. It won't matter what their UY is. So someone who buys in April 2022 and has a February or March UY will get 2022 UY points while someone who buys in April 2022 and has an April or later UY will get 2021 UY points. But they will all pay the same dues because dues are based on calendar year.

If someone buys in April 2022 and has an April UY they will only get 2022 points. Have to buy before April to get the 2021 points.

 

[CarolynFH]

If someone buys in April 2022 and has an April UY they will only get 2022 points. Have to buy before April to get the 2021 points.

Woops, thanks, have to stop posting while watching TV!

 

[DVCsloth]

you buy in 2021, you pay 2021 dues. If you buy on Feb 2022, you pay 2022 dues.

If you have an April UY, and buy today, you get 2021 points because you are still in your April 2021 UY.

So dues are not technically tied to the exact points but rather from date you become an owner.

Woops, thanks, have to stop posting while watching TV!

you buy in 2021, you pay 2021 dues. If you buy on Feb 2022, you pay 2022 dues.

If you have an April UY, and buy today, you get 2021 points because you are still in your April 2021 UY.

So dues are not technically tied to the exact points but rather from date you become an owner.

Maybe I'm not saying it correctly. If I have a march use year and I buy now February, I won't pay the entire 2021 dues even though I received the 2021 points. If I bought the same points in March or later 2021, I would pay the prorated 2021 points.

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe I'm not saying it correctly. If I have a march use year and I buy now February, I won't pay the entire 2021 dues even though I received the 2021 points. If I bought the same points in March or later 2021, I would pay the prorated 2021 points.

Correct because you pay for operation of the resort as an owner, and not which points you get when buying direct.

That’s why UY and points for dues purposes doesn’t matter. It’s only based on the date you buy.


So, if you buy today, you are not paying 2021 dues because we are no longer in 2021. It is 2022.

 

[Nabas]

In a message board post, folks can say "hey guys, check out my photo of how empty the parks were last year." DVCNews doesn't view that as a valid data point for comparing the two periods. (Also, see below for a starkly different pic from December 13, 2020.)

For the fiscal quarter ending January 1, 2022, Disney reported that Domestic theme park attendance increased by ">100%" compared to the quarter ending January 2, 2021.

Disney didn't say exactly what ">100%" is but they also reported that year-to-year Domestic theme park revenue for that same quarter grew from $1.489 billion to $4.800 billion, an increase of 222%! Domestic hotel occupancy grew from 28% to 73%, an increase of 161%. Together, these give us some idea that the ">100%" increase in attendance probably was a lot greater than 100%.

Assuming that data posted by DVCNews represents closings (and thus trails theme park attendance by roughly a month), DVCNews reported DVC sales of 253,618 points in the 3 months corresponding from October to December 2020. In 2021, that number was 336,874, an increase of 33%. (BYW, if I use DVCNews' October-to-December data for 2020 and 2021, the numbers are 279,474 and 311,466, only an 11% increase.)

DVC sales are not rebounding as quickly as theme park attendance.

 

[tjkraz]

For the fiscal quarter ending January 1, 2022, Disney reported that Domestic theme park attendance increased by ">100%" compared to the quarter ending January 2, 2021.

(snip)

DVC sales are not rebounding as quickly as theme park attendance.

Possibly true. Certainly not back to pre-pandemic levels by any stretch.

Disneyland did not reopen until April 2021. So that "domestic parks" figure includes 0 attendance, guest spending, hotel revenue for DL and DCA in 2020 vs ....a lot in 2021. I'm sure WDW numbers did grow, we just don't know the extent. (And it happened amid no APs / Genie / Chapek / etc)

Other extenuating factors could include things like were the 2020 sales actually boosted by pent up demand, stimulus funds, good incentives? How did the Aulani specials impact other locations in 1Q fy 2022? How were 2021 sales impacted by people waiting for VGF (which was announced May '21)?

Again, the numbers are what they are. Trying to make sense of it often be like....

 

[SusieQ93]

DVC sales are not rebounding as quickly as theme park attendance.

That seems right and I don’t find it terribly surprising. I think there’s a huge pent up demand for vacationing, but do consumers have the level of confidence to put down $30k and sign a 50 year contract? I get freaked out thinking about it myself sometimes. We’ve just all been through a really traumatic time period unlike anything else in our lifetime. I think consumer confidence still needs to come back up and we need to get to a more stable place with Covid before DVC sales fully rebound.

 

[Nabas]

That seems right and I don’t find it terribly surprising. I think there’s a huge pent up demand for vacationing, but do consumers have the level of confidence to put down $30k and sign a 50 year contract? I get freaked out thinking about it myself sometimes. We’ve just all been through a really traumatic time period unlike anything else in our lifetime. I think consumer confidence still needs to come back up and we need to get to a more stable place with Covid before DVC sales fully rebound.

Yeah, I have the same read of the current market. After a year or two at home, people are ready to spend on a nice vacation. "I've earned it."

But when it comes to plopping down $30K or more on a timeshare, consumer confidence is not yet there.