The US will never understand Islam....

[Papa Deuce]

or at least I sure won't. All I can say is thank God I live in the USA and not the middle east or Africa, or many other places where Islam is the main religion:


MOGADISHU, Somalia — Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days.

Shops, tea houses and other public places in Bulo Burto, about 124 miles northeast of the capital, Mogadishu, should be closed during prayer time and no one should be on the streets, said Sheik Hussein Barre Rage, the chairman of the town's Islamic court. His court is part of a network backed by armed militiamen that has taken control of much of southern Somalia in recent months, bringing a strict interpretation of Islam that is alien to many Somalis.

Those who do not follow the prayer edict after three days have elapsed, "will definitely be beheaded according to Islamic law," Rage told The Associated Press by phone. "As Muslims we should practice Islam fully, not in part, and that is what our religion enjoins us to do."

 

[poohandwendy]

That is rough.

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around it too.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

The problem here isn't Islam, the problem in this case is the town's leaders.

 

[Laura]

or at least I sure won't. All I can say is thank God I live in the USA and not the middle east or Africa, or many other places where Islam is the main religion:


MOGADISHU, Somalia — Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days.

Shops, tea houses and other public places in Bulo Burto, about 124 miles northeast of the capital, Mogadishu, should be closed during prayer time and no one should be on the streets, said Sheik Hussein Barre Rage, the chairman of the town's Islamic court. His court is part of a network backed by armed militiamen that has taken control of much of southern Somalia in recent months, bringing a strict interpretation of Islam that is alien to many Somalis.

Those who do not follow the prayer edict after three days have elapsed, "will definitely be beheaded according to Islamic law," Rage told The Associated Press by phone. "As Muslims we should practice Islam fully, not in part, and that is what our religion enjoins us to do."

I think that if you re-read what you just quoted, that many Somalis find that kind of Islam "alien", so they're in the same boat you are. 90% of Somalis are Muslim.

A fine example of why we shouldn't mix religion and politics, too.

 

[DawnCt1]

The problem here isn't Islam, the problem in this case isthe country's leaders.

its also a problem with islam. this is the type of radical islam that is emerging in the third world and is turning those country's, where you feel the leaders are ineffectual into theocracies. islam is long overdue for a reformation.

 

[Crankyshank]

It's not Islam that's the problem any more than Christianity is to blame for abortion clinic bombings.

The problem is the interpration of the Quran by radical (mostly Shi'ite) Ulama and enforced by whacko leaders trying to keep their people in line, afraid, and subserviant to avoid any sort of uprising.

 

[Fitswimmer]

It's not Islam that's the problem any more than Christianity is to blame for abortion clinic bombings.

The problem is the interpration of the Quran by radical (mostly Shi'ite) Ulama and enforced by whacko leaders trying to keep their people in line, afraid, and subserviant to avoid any sort of uprising.

The other problem is that Islam doesn't have the equivilent of a Pope or Bishops to unite the flock, so to speak. There's no structure, so any charismatic leader can rise up and start doing these things.

 

[fabshelly]

Why not look into Islam for yourself instead of making your mind up out of ignorance?

I studied the Koran in my Religion class in college, and was, even then, shocked to find that Islam, real Islam, is a religion of peace and love. Actually, our Old Testament is much more bloody and violent.

They have the same truth we do: God is Love.

 

[GeorgeG]

No matter how you shake it, it all comes down to somebody wanting to control the people. Sometimes this is due to religious interpretation, sometimes it's out of pure hunger for power and wealth. Islam is not the only religions to do this over the years, but they happen to have the spotlight at this point in time.

 

[Debbie Jean]

No matter how you shake it, it all comes down to somebody wanting to control the people. Sometimes this is due to religious interpretation, sometimes it's out of pure hunger for power and wealth. Islam is not the only religions to do this over the years, but they happen to have the spotlight at this point in time.

ITA This is no more an example of "normative" Islam than Adolf Hitler's behavior was an example of "normative" Christianity. It is an extreme distortion and manipulation of a long and honored tradition to meet the sick and perverted needs of disturbed individuals in power positions.

 

[VioltePrincess]

the principles of Islam are not the problem here, it's the radicalization fo the religion. it's the same radicalism that led to the Inquisition in Spain in the 15th and 16th centuries. Hitler incorporated religion and superstition into his belief system to maintain control. stalin expected conformity. it's all the same problem.

 

[shrubber]

Hey somebody get the ACLU over there to keep those athiests from being oppressed. I mean send over the whole ACLU.

 

[bicker]

And the United States is not immune. Many people point to the policies of recent administrations as effectively immoral, imposing death on people of other parts of the world solely because they choose to hold different values from that of the American leadership. We can agree or disagree with those evaluations, but there is no difference between those people holding those opinions of the United States and anyone here holding such opinions of Islam in general, or even the extremists in Mogadishu. It's all a matter of personal preference, and the extent to which people are willing to cause the death of others to impose their personal preference on others. Just because we're doing what we believe is "right" for us, doesn't mean someone else's evaluation of it being "wrong" is "wrong". Right and wrong is always relative to your own perspective. Unfortunately, even though it is a scary thought for many people, there are no absolutes.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Why not look into Islam for yourself instead of making your mind up out of ignorance?

I studied the Koran in my Religion class in college, and was, even then, shocked to find that Islam, real Islam, is a religion of peace and love. Actually, our Old Testament is much more bloody and violent.

They have the same truth we do: God is Love.

That is all well and good, and I have "some" knowledge of Islam..... not a ton, but I also took a college course called comparative religions. Funny though, how Islam is the religion of the most number of violent terrorists. And, from what I can see, the preachers of the fanatical Islam are turning the tide to the way they want it.

 

[Crankyshank]

That is all well and good, and I have "some" knowledge of Islam..... not a ton, but I also took a college course called comparative religions. Funny though, how Islam is the religion of the most number of violent terrorists. And, from what I can see, the preachers of the fanatical Islam are turning the tide to the way they want it.

And Christianity used to be the religion of the most number of violent terrorists. It's not the religion that's the problem. The problem is the political and socio-economic situation in Muslim countries. The Ulama and the political leaders are interpreting the Quran how best to suit their needs and how to solidify their power base. It is also imperative to their status for the people to be afraid and subserviant to them. If you do some studying on the last 75yrs of the Ottoman empire and the revolts they had, there's pretty much the justification for the need to keep the followers afraid. I'm not excusing such horrific behavior because there is no excuse. I'm just providing historical insight. The people are poor, hungry, and brainwashed into thinking that Allah demands horrific acts of them. They believe that because corrupt, sick, horrible dictators and religious officials have brain washed them into believing that.

Also most, if not all, of the radical Islamic terrorists are Shi'ite. There's a reason for that. The twelver Shi'a Ulama have more authority to change the interpretations of the Quran per their religious beliefs.

 

[Fitswimmer]

And Christianity used to be the religion of the most number of violent terrorists. It's not the religion that's the problem. The problem is the political and socio-economic situation in Muslim countries. The Ulama and the political leaders are interpreting the Quran how best to suit their needs and how to solidify their power base. It is also imperative to their status for the people to be afraid and subserviant to them. If you do some studying on the last 75yrs of the Ottoman empire and the revolts they had, there's pretty much the justification for the need to keep the followers afraid. I'm not excusing such horrific behavior because there is no excuse. I'm just providing historical insight.

Also most, if not all, of the radical Islamic terrorists are Shi'ite. There's a reason for that. The twelver Shi'a Ulama have more authority to change the interpretations of the Quran per their religious beliefs.

That's interesting about the Shi'ite sect. Is there some kind of central authority over each sect? What makes it easier for one group to alter interpretations than others?

 

[Crankyshank]

That's interesting about the Shi'ite sect. Is there some kind of central authority over each sect? What makes it easier for one group to alter interpretations than others?

I am by no means an expert. I just spent half of the semester learning the difference between Sunni, Shi'a, and Sufi Muslims and their history and it's mind spraining to get a handle on because it's so different from Christianity.

The most common Shi'as are twelvers. I'm reasonably certain that they make up at least 75% of Shi'ites. They believe there were twelve Imams (holy leaders) that followed Muhammad. The Imam wasn't just a political ruler- he was a sinless metaphysical being as well - responsible for the souls of the followers and the ruling of the empire as well. The Imam is able to alter the hadith (words and teachings of Muhammad) as well as the Sharia (the law). Kind of like the Pope and Jesus combined.

Here's where it gets strange. The twelth Imam disappeared in the early to mid 900's. Well not disappeared exactly - Allah removed the Imam and hid him away. However, he still has a representative in the Ulama ( I can't remember the title but he's the head of the council of Ulama) and he still gives judgement and interpretations to highest ranking Ulama.

In a nutshell - the Ulama can interpret the Quran how they see fit to best meet their needs and just say it was the hidden Imam that told them this.

 

[letterdavidman]

That is all well and good, and I have "some" knowledge of Islam..... not a ton, but I also took a college course called comparative religions. Funny though, how Islam is the religion of the most number of violent terrorists. And, from what I can see, the preachers of the fanatical Islam are turning the tide to the way they want it.

Bigoted much?

 

[eclectics]

It's not Islam that's the problem any more than Christianity is to blame for abortion clinic bombings.
The problem is the interpration of the Quran by radical (mostly Shi'ite) Ulama and enforced by whacko leaders trying to keep their people in line, afraid, and subserviant to avoid any sort of uprising.

Easy to blame the entire religion for the actions of some. It's just a justification for hate and bigotry, imho. One thing I do agree with however is my disappointment that the world's Muslim leaders, the majority of whom are peace loving, don't band together and form some sort of global committee to address the problems caused by the radical factions of their religion.

 

[brerrabbit]

I am by no means an expert on Religious history or Islam. I am a military history buff and can tell you that virtually every religion has carried out some pretty monstorous acts in the name of their faith, Christians included. What I see with Islam is that its more than just a religious belief or act. Its more like a social and economic struggle. As an earlier poster stated Islam has tended to catch on in the poor and impoverished nations and the vast majority of its followers are impoverished. Now ther are exceptions, Bin Laden is from a wealthy Arab family and there are a few others you can name more but for the most part the masses who carry out the acts are the impoverished. That leads me to my belief that a lot of the violence is really stemming from desperation. Imagine living in a third world country where you struggle everyday to live. Basics like food, clean water, and medical care are almost impossible to attain. You see America and the abundance of wealth and what your leaders call decadence occuring in that country. You are very easily convinced that they are your enemey and having little to live for you are a very easy convert to radical Islam. I mean even a strict interpretation of the Christian Bible would and does lead many to believe there is a huge amount of moral decay in the US. The bible calls for help for the poor and the sick and while it is a parable with a not so clear meaning Jesus did tell the wealthy man who wanted to receive the Kingdom of heaven that to do so he should give away all his wealth.

So my point through all this rambling is simply this: is radicall Islam something that uses its teachings to commit acts or is their condition what leads them to their acts and radical Islam is just their justification.