The Running Thread - 2018

[opusone]

QOTD: If you are normally a road runner and run a trail run, how much of a difference in pace do you allow to be equal? If you have done this how close were you to you estimate?

ATTQOTD - I run both, and my road runs are at least 30 seconds per mile faster at the same effort level, even on the easiest trails. May advice - don't think pace, think desired effort level. Every trail is different, and if you target a pace instead of effort level, you could end up hurting yourself.

I've done a few trail runs in the last 4-5 years, and I always have a pace in mind, but as @BuckeyeBama suggested, I run trails by effort rather than pace, and my pace estimates are oftentimes off or even way off. That being said, I think about 20-30 seconds per mile slower if it is fairly dry and flat and up to 90-120 seconds per mile slower if the conditions are harsh (wet, hilly, etc).

 

[Slogger]

QOTD: If you are normally a road runner and run a trail run, how much of a difference in pace do you allow to be equal? If you have done this how close were you to you estimate?

I just ran on a trail last week and now consider myself an expert on trail running, LOL.
It would have been difficult to maintain "road pace" on the trail, there were areas that I had to nearly stop and crawl across large rocks, ravines, and slopes. I ran my optimal pace but threw it out the window at times when the land was not well suited for running.

 

[Slogger]

ATTQOTD: I have never run on trails. I also am afraid of falling and killing myself. Also ticks and chiggers.

I haven't been on the boards much lately as I am depressed about my lack of running. ..... Sigh.

This.....exactly. Don't forget snakes!

Sorry you are down about your running. I've had times in my life when I was too busy or too banged up to run for many months and it definitely takes getting used to.
I try to consider the "down time" a vacation for my body to recharge and come back stronger in the future. You will too.
Better times ahead!

 

[jennamfeo]

ATTQOTD: WOW, well this is really fitting as I ran my first trail race this weekend too! I will have a recap up on my training journal later this afternoon, but here is the short of it...
I have never ran on a trail like ever in my life. So naturally I should just do it during race for the first time. I had an 8 mile run scheduled for an EB pace of 10:58. I thought, that should be pretty easy to hit for the most part, but MAN running on a trail is a whole different beast that I wasn't expecting. This race was called Gaspin' in the Aspen because it was up in Flagstaff, AZ at an elevation of about 8000-8300 feet with some huge hills. (If you know anything about me, you really shouldn't be surprised. I can't pick a flat course to save my life.) Everyone was warning me about the elevation and how much more difficult it would be to breathe, but honestly I didn't have any trouble breathing. I was expecting my lungs to burn and stuff, but nothing, I felt great! I knew that I was going to want to just take it slow and watch my footing, and that is exactly what I did. This race had some double tracks and single tracks. I did get stuck behind some people on the single tracks but was okay with it. There were a few hugeeee hills that I ended up walking because would rather finish than get hurt. In the end, my average pace was 12:24, which was 90 seconds slower than expected because hills, mud, and dodging massive piles of cow poop. I have heard that people who run a trail race can get hooked on them instantly that just isn't the case for me. I liked it, the course was gorgeous, the weather was perfect, but I found myself constantly having to be in it and paying far more attention that I would on a road race because the terrain is just so unpredictable. I like road races because I can zone out for a few miles usually and not worry about anything. But I was mentally and physically exhausted after this race from just having to be present for the whole thing. Will I do another trail race again? Sure. But I am not going to go out looking for them.

Gaspin' in the Aspen 15k finish time: 1:55:30

(That was a lot longer than I expected it to be, sorry!)

 

[michigandergirl]

ATTQOTD: This is a timely question as I'm slowly venturing into the trail running world over the next year. I just signed up for a trail half for next August. It's a race I've been wanting to do for awhile now, but it sells out fast, so I signed up yesterday, AND it's got the biggest half marathon finisher medal in the country, so of course I had to sign up!! I'm planning to do a few smaller trail races over the next year leading up to it.

I ran on some trails last weekend while on vacation and pace was about a minute or more slower, which i think is to be expected.

My question is: Do I need actual trail shoes??

 

[Miranda]

I haven't been on the boards much lately as I am depressed about my lack of running. I had a sciatica flare up a couple of weeks ago. It only lasted a couple of days but walking, standing, sleeping poorly to compensate for my bad side made me hurt my back and I have been having pretty constant pain since. Doctors just want to throw pain meds at me so I am just taking it slow and letting it heal on my own. But I haven't run in weeks and even before that I was only running maybe 3 days a week. I feel like all my endurance is down the drain and I will have to start from scratch for WDW Marathon training. I feel like a wimp being depressed over this as some of you have so much more worse health problems to deal with. Sigh.

I'm pretty much off the wagon at the moment, too. The summer heat and humidity and just some burnout just have led to me not really running at all much outside of OTF. For a little while before my early August 10K, I was doing a track workout once a week and making it to about half my Saturday runs (between event conflicts and runs being canceled due to thunderstorms), and then doing OTF 3x a week, but after the 10K I immediately got sick with a summer cold a couple days later that turned into a sinus thing and I didn't workout at all for 12 days. Now I'm back to OTF 2x a week but without any races to train for now since I decided to DNS my HM, I haven't really made it back onto the roads.

 

[BikeFan]

ATTQOTD: All my trail races have been ultras (50K-50 miles), so they've been considerably slower than my road races, sometimes 3-4:00 minutes/mile slower. They've involved mud, snow, stream crossings, and lots of scrambling over rocks, roots, etc., so the times are not that comparable to a road race. During a trail race, I don't worry about pace that much. As long as I'm moving forward and ahead of the cut-offs, I'm pretty happy with that.

 

[Disney at Heart]

QOTD: If you are normally a road runner and run a trail run, how much of a difference in pace do you allow to be equal? If you have done this how close were you to you estimate?

I've done a few trail runs in the last 4-5 years, and I always have a pace in mind, but as @BuckeyeBama suggested, I run trails by effort rather than pace, and my pace estimates are oftentimes off or even way off. That being said, I think about 20-30 seconds per mile slower if it is fairly dry and flat and up to 90-120 seconds per mile slower if the conditions are harsh (wet, hilly, etc).

^That's the answer. Trails are unique; no two are the same. Some are fairly flat and 10 ft. wide, with some paving or crushed stone. Others are single track through the forest with 2000+ ft. elevation, streams to cross, and a snake or two to jump over. I have to run them by effort, and even then, an occasional root that I never saw jumps up to trip me. The views of nature are awesome though.

My question is: Do I need actual trail shoes??

It depends on the trail. If you stick to easy trails, no. But if you are doing very technical trails, yes. Stones and roots can really tear up your feet through shoes that are too flimsy.

 

[roxymama]

I forgot that I have done one trail race back in 2016 when I did The Great Pumpkin Run on a farm. It was the morning after a huge storm and became an unintentional mud-run.
I had to go check my results for the 5k 43:16. The following weekend I ran a normal road 5k in 28:57.
So there you go.

 

[BikeFan]

My question is: Do I need actual trail shoes??

It really depends on the type of the trails. On smooth, flat trails, road shoes are probably going to be fine. On hillier trails with lots of roots, mud, rocks, etc., good trail shoes are a must. Another thing to consider is how well your shoes (and socks!) dry out. Some trail races have stream crossings which will result in full immersion of your feet. The wrong shoes and socks can result in a lot of foot pain and blisters. I've learned this the hard way! Your best bet is to find out about the trails you'll be racing on, and maybe even do a recon run on them beforehand. Trail races are great fun - good luck!!

 

[Chaitali]

I've never done a trail race and only done a train run once. It was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it (I was with a friend) but it was a lot of walking. It was Fall, there were a lot of leaves on the ground covering the roots, and we had to be careful to not fall. And even with all that, we still ended up getting lost so part of the going slow was trying to find our way back to where we started.

 

[Kazrak]

ATTQOTD: The last trail run I did, I had a 10k time that was utterly horrendous - I think I came in under 2 hours, but not by much.

However, that's because the course as given was, roughly, flat for 2 miles, then up about 650' across a mile, then returning along the same route. (I had not realized going in just what I was getting into. I'm thinking I'll do the 5k for that race this year, if I do it at all. We fly to Orlando the next day for a non-running trip.)

For flattish trails, my times have been fine.

 

[TheHamm]

I went out for a run yesterday and found there is an amazing track less than a mile from my house. Seriously, a 400 meter track Jessie Owens set world records at (according to the plaque in the corner) is open to me and all the old guys doing laps at 7am on a Sunday. So for those of you who answered the recent post about having unlimited funds for running, what would you do with your track you built next to your house (not quite next to my house, and it was still 98% humidity, so not your fantasy). At lunch I run on a track with weird engineered potholes and other features to abuse a car, so not an amazing place to run, but available and traffic free for an hour. I do not even know what to do other than run in circles on this cool looking, bouncy surface. I got as far as run a lap, walk a lap x3 and was thrilled that MY PACE WAS CONSISTENT(ly slow), but then I deleted it from the garmin on accident so it does not count.
[side note: I would like to have words with the designer who put the 'done' tap area and 'delete' in the same screen real estate. Apparently I am an accidental double tapper. perhaps delete could go where 'save' is so I accidentally save a run instead?]

 

[Chaitali]

Ugh on deleting a run, I hate that But as far as what type of workouts I would do on a track... I would use it for speed work. So I'd warm up with a lap or two, and then start what ever my planned speed work was. My favorite would be a ladder so one lap running and then one lap recovery (walk or slow run) for a lap, 2 laps running and one lap recovery, 3 laps running and one lap recovery, 4 laps running and then cool down. Some people like to do the ladder coming back down too but I generally didn't have time for that on my weekday runs.

 

[jennamfeo]

Full race recap here if you wanna read about my trail race experience.

 

[kbenson13]

I'm still learning to run on pavement, so I'm not exactly rushing to start running off road. There are some hard packed dirt trails that I run on occasionally, but they're effectively the same as running on pavement (no roots or branches to deal with) and I don't slow down or perceive additional effort on them. I do, however, watch where I'm going a little closer on those trails...

 

[kbenson13]

I got as far as run a lap, walk a lap x3 and was thrilled that MY PACE WAS CONSISTENT(ly slow), but then I deleted it from the garmin on accident so it does not count.
[side note: I would like to have words with the designer who put the 'done' tap area and 'delete' in the same screen real estate. Apparently I am an accidental double tapper. perhaps delete could go where 'save' is so I accidentally save a run instead?]

I am so fearful of doing this after every single run. The law of averages dictates that I will screw this up eventually too, and I'm not looking forward to it when it happens...

 

[LSUlakes]

Off Topic Question: We are leaving for WDW is 15 days and our son is now drinking whole milk but has a lactose issue, so at home we buy the lactose free kind for him. Do yall know of anywhere in the parks where we can purchase lactose free milk? TIA

 

[Bree]

ATTQOTD: I’ve only run a trail once while the kids fished with DH. It was at a state park just down the road from our house. It was very flat with deep sand in a lot of areas. I spent a lot of time dumping the sand out of my shoes. My pace was slower, but I expected that.

ATTQOTD: I have never run on trails. I also am afraid of falling and killing myself. Also ticks and chiggers.

I haven't been on the boards much lately as I am depressed about my lack of running. I had a sciatica flare up a couple of weeks ago. It only lasted a couple of days but walking, standing, sleeping poorly to compensate for my bad side made me hurt my back and I have been having pretty constant pain since. Doctors just want to throw pain meds at me so I am just taking it slow and letting it heal on my own. But I haven't run in weeks and even before that I was only running maybe 3 days a week. I feel like all my endurance is down the drain and I will have to start from scratch for WDW Marathon training. I feel like a wimp being depressed over this as some of you have so much more worse health problems to deal with. Sigh.

Ugh. It’s frustrating when doctors don’t take the time to find alternatives and just want to throw pain meds at you.

 

[Bree]

Off Topic Question: We are leaving for WDW is 15 days and our son is now drinking whole milk but has a lactose issue, so at home we buy the lactose free kind for him. Do yall know of anywhere in the parks where we can purchase lactose free milk? TIA

I’ve never seen lactose free milk at the resorts for purchase, but someone else here may know for sure. Maybe they have it in the back??? Does Amazon deliver it?