The "real Disneyland"

[DLfan4]

'my friend was talking with some co-workers about summer plans and this lady says she is going to Disney. so my friend says, "you should go to Disneyland in California", and the lady says... " oh no, i want to take my son to the original one in florida." lol

 

[DisneyPhans]

DL is to WDW as Mecca is to Medina. Both are important, relevant sites, but one is the primary, original holy site. Those visiting the secondary site are making the wrong pilgrimmage.

 

[Oswald&Ortensia4Ever]

He also had to deal with a somewhat sleazy partner in building the Disneyland Hotel, which the Walt Disney Company didn't own. They tried to buy it for years and could only manage to gain ownership in the 80s.

Jack Wrather built the Disneyland Hotel. He was in no way a sleazy partner. Jack built the hotel with not only Walt's permission, but at Walt's request. Jack Wrather was a self-made, upstanding businessman as well as a film and television producer. Among his investments he owned The Lone Ranger TV show. Jack was married to Hollywood actress Bonita Granville and the couple was friends with Walt and Lillian. Walt also gave Jack the rights to the Disney Hotel name for 99 years, which he could have used to build Disney branded hotels all over, which he never did, certainly not sleazy. Steakhouse 55 was formerly called Granville's after Jack's wife and the restaurant still features photographs from her personal collection hanging on its walls to this day. Jack Wrather and his wife Bonita were named Disney Legends in 2011 by the Walt Disney Company, I don't consider that sleazy either. The only thing about that situation I woukd call sleazy was the underhanded way Michael Eisner leveraged the hotel from the Wrather family after Jack's death by threatening to raise the hotels monorail station lease fees to an exorbitant amount the financially struggling company couldn't afford forcing their hand and the sale of the hotel and Disney branded hotel rights to the Disney Co.

 

[NorthernCalMom]

Shanghai Disneyland is also expected to become the most visited theme park in the world,

Besides its castle is the biggest! Fortunately, it's not size that matters...

 

[bcla]

Jack Wrather built the Disneyland Hotel. He was in no way a sleazy partner. Jack built the hotel with not only Walt's permission, but at Walt's request. Jack Wrather was a self-made, upstanding businessman as well as a film and television producer. Among his investments he owned The Lone Ranger TV show. Jack was married to Hollywood actress Bonita Granville and the couple was friends with Walt and Lillian. Walt also gave Jack the rights to the Disney Hotel name for 99 years, which he could have used to build Disney branded hotels all over, which he never did, certainly not sleazy. Steakhouse 55 was formerly called Granville's after Jack's wife and the restaurant still features photographs from her personal collection hanging on its walls to this day. Jack Wrather and his wife Bonita were named Disney Legends in 2011 by the Walt Disney Company, I don't consider that sleazy either. The only thing about that situation I woukd call sleazy was the underhanded way Michael Eisner leveraged the hotel from the Wrather family after Jack's death by threatening to raise the hotels monorail station lease fees to an exorbitant amount the financially struggling company couldn't afford forcing their hand and the sale of the hotel and Disney branded hotel rights to the Disney Co.

Didn't he sue Clayton Moore when he tried to make a living being paid for personal appearances as The Lone Ranger?

Also - wasn't the Disneyland Hotel built by Wrather-Alvarez Productions, followed by a feud where he sued Helen Alvarez and then forced her out?

My understanding is that Walt wanted to buy out Wrather in the 60s, but he refused to sell.

 

[Oswald&Ortensia4Ever]

Didn't he sue Clayton Moore when he tried to make a living being paid for personal appearances as The Lone Ranger?

Also - wasn't the Disneyland Hotel built by Wrather-Alvarez Productions, followed by a feud where he sued Helen Alvarez and then forced her out?

My understanding is that Walt wanted to buy out Wrather in the 60s, but he refused to sell.

Yes he did sue Clayton Moore for illegally using The Lone Ranger character to make money since he owned the rights and Mr. Moore did not, but this was 13 years after Walt died so I don't think it affected Walt.
Maria Helen Alvarez did own 30% of the Disneyland Hotel and was a partner in his other holdings and Jack did attempt to sue her for fraud after he felt she went behind his back and didn't disclose a secret marriage that gave her more stock in his corporation and he just bought her out instead of continuing the partnership.
Walt did want to buy the Disneyland Hotel as it had turned into almost as much of a goldmine as the theme park had, but Jack didn't sell because the property made lots of money and he really enjoyed owning the place, some have said that it was Jack's favorite business of all his enterprise. Jack had no obligation or duty to sell to Walt so I still don't think as any of these things sleazy, just events that happen in the course of owning a company.

 

[bcla]

Yes he did sue Clayton Moore for illegally using The Lone Ranger character to make money since he owned the rights and Mr. Moore did not, but this was 13 years after Walt died so I don't think it affected Walt.
Maria Helen Alvarez did own 30% of the Disneyland Hotel and was a partner in his other holdings and Jack did attempt to sue her for fraud after he felt she went behind his back and didn't disclose a secret marriage that gave her more stock in his corporation and he just bought her out instead of continuing the partnership.
Walt did want to buy the Disneyland Hotel as it had turned into almost as much of a goldmine as the theme park had, but Jack didn't sell because the property made lots of money and he really enjoyed owning the place, some have said that it was Jack's favorite business of all his enterprise. Jack had no obligation or duty to sell to Walt so I still don't think as any of these things sleazy, just events that happen in the course of owning a company.

I actually remember the case of Clayton Moore from TV news pieces when I was a kid. He was making appearances for two decades without any expressed permission to do so. So did Jay Silverheels as Tonto. Wasn't there an appearance on the Tonight Show?

Wrather only sprung it when he thought he was going to make a Lone Ranger movie. Also, didn't he lose in court? It was also rather embarrassing to Wrather in that Moore was going around wearing sunglasses instead of the mask, until he won his case. His handling g of that case turned out to be a public relations fiasco, and the movie lost money.

All I'll say is that I think he had an interesting place in Disneyland history, and it certainly wasn't all positive.

 

[Oswald&Ortensia4Ever]

I actually remember the case of Clayton Moore from TV news pieces when I was a kid. He was making appearances for two decades without any expressed permission to do so. So did Jay Silverheels as Tonto. Wasn't there an appearance on the Tonight Show?

Wrather only sprung it when he thought he was going to make a Lone Ranger movie. Also, didn't he lose in court? It was also rather embarrassing to Wrather in that Moore was going around wearing sunglasses instead of the mask, until he won his case. His handling g of that case turned out to be a public relations fiasco, and the movie lost money.

All I'll say is that I think he had an interesting place in Disneyland history, and it certainly wasn't all positive.

Yeah after The Lone Ranger film flopped in 1981, Jack granted him permission to appear in costume again. The case was an embarrassment to the Wrather corporation at the time. It definitely wasn't all sunshine and roses but I still wouldn't call the guy sleazy especially in his dealings with Walt and where Disneyland were concerned.

slea·zy
ˈslēzē/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of a person or situation) sordid, corrupt, or immoral.
   synonyms: corrupt, immoral, unsavory, disreputable

 

[bcla]

Yeah after The Lone Ranger film flopped in 1981, Jack granted him permission to appear in costume again. The case was an embarrassment to the Wrather corporation at the time. It definitely wasn't all sunshine and roses but I still wouldn't call the guy sleazy especially in his dealings with Walt and where Disneyland were concerned.

Yeah - I get that Wrather sort of backed out of that (some sources claim that Moore won in court, but are probably incorrect), but also he likely knew he was dying of cancer. The public perception was that even though he didn't have the legal permission to make the appearances, there was no attempt for two decades to stop Moore. Many of the appearances were also unpaid appearances for charities. The rationale that he might affect the bottom line of a new Lone Ranger movie was ludicrous and he didn't even do the typical thing where a previous actor takes part in a reimagining of an iconic character. It was a horrible PR move. If anything, having Moore around to do publicity for that movie would have been helpful. In the end the public got to see him go around wearing sunglasses rather than the iconic mask.

Granted, I used one word that may be loaded. For the most part Walt was unhappy with the various businesses that sprung up around Disneyland, and I might have improperly thought it reflected on the Disneyland Hotel. In any case, Walt was trying to buy out the Disneyland Hotel once he had the money to do so, and Wrather flat out declined. Certainly Walt wasn't happy about it.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

DL is to WDW as Mecca is to Medina. Both are important, relevant sites, but one is the primary, original holy site. Those visiting the secondary site are making the wrong pilgrimmage.

I like this.

 

[bcla]

I like this.

Sure. Southern California is really the epicenter of the Disney empire. That's where most of the creative and financial parts of the company are located. It's where most of the movies are made (although Pixar is in Northern California), the rides and attractions are designed, and where the leadership of the theme parks is located. It rather irked me when some inquired about working with WD Imagineering designing rides and asked what it was like living in Florida.

Florida is where Walt chose to branch out. It's certainly very important to the company, but it's certainly not where it all started and not where the majority of the creation is. They have chosen to located key businesses there such as DVC and DCL.

 

[maltdizzy]

Man, no one remembers John Hart, who shared the Lone Ranger role with Moore.

 

[johde]

Of course people do the same thing with rides Disneyland "copied". Look at any youtube of Timber Mountain Log Flume at Knotts Berry Farm and look at how many comments call it a cheap knock off of Splash Mountain. Even though, Timber Mountain Log Flume was built in 1969 and originally opened 20 years before Splash Mountain.

 

[bcla]

Of course people do the same thing with rides Disneyland "copied". Look at any youtube of Timber Mountain Log Flume at Knotts Berry Farm and look at how many comments call it a cheap knock off of Splash Mountain. Even though, Timber Mountain Log Flume was built in 1969 and originally opened 20 years before Splash Mountain.

It's not as if Disney originated the dark ride or the log flume ride. The modern log flume ride was from the early 1960s. I remember riding on one in the 1970s at Great America in Santa Clara. However, most are tremendously boring except for the drop.

There are some rides that opened at WDW first, like Space Mountain, Country Bear Jamboree, and BTMRR. However, some were designed with multiple locations in mind.

 

[lildreamer101]

Isn't the castle at DLR placed backwards instead of the right way because Walt Disney preferred it that way? I remember telling that to someone I know and they thought I was lying.
I had learned this information on a DLR documentary about the making of DLR. I guess that those people are lying as well?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Isn't the castle at DLR placed backwards instead of the right way because Walt Disney preferred it that way? I remember telling that to someone I know and they thought I was lying.
I had learned this information on a DLR documentary about the making of DLR. I guess that those people are lying as well?

Not sure what you mean by "placed backwards"?

 

[bcla]

Not sure what you mean by "placed backwards"?

Apparently the original concept art had the tower to the left (viewing from the front), but during construction Walt asked that it be turned around because he liked it better that way.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Apparently the original concept art had the tower to the left (viewing from the front), but during construction Walt asked that it be turned around because he liked it better that way.

I don't know. Are you talking about the tallest point? Or the squarish tower on the left?

 

[bcla]

I don't know. Are you talking about the tallest point? Or the squarish tower on the left?

Tallest point.

However, I looked up the original concept art, and the tallest point is to the right of center. However, in Sleeping Beauty, the tallest point is to the left of center.

 

[mpadilla89]

I have never been to WDW and when i was younger i always wanted to go thinking since one is land and one is world then WDW must be much better. But Disneyland has become like my first love that no matter where i go or what places i visit Disneyland will always be my favorite. It is really the happiest place on earth. I could care less about visitng WDW now that im older and can actually go on my own. Anytime i have tried to figure out dates and prices its just too much.

I definetly would have said some smart comment to DH and made sure they heard me.