The nutters in CA who chained up 13 kids...

[OhMari]

They were allowed one meal a day and 2 showers a year! And the mom had no knowledge of anything that went on in the house. She questioned why the police were there. It’s all so sickening.

This is so sickening close to Michele Dugger.

 

[Mizzoufan]

This is so sickening close to Michele Dugger.

I disagree. This case is nothing like the Duggar at all

 

[CdnCarrie]

This is so sickening close to Michele Dugger.

Please. You may not agree with their lifestyle but the Duggar kids are hardly abused or starved. I don't think your statement is a fair one in the least.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I disagree. This case is nothing like the Duggar at all

Please. You may not agree with their lifestyle but the Duggar kids are hardly abused or starved. I don't think your statement is a fair one in the least.

Except for that part where the oldest child sexually abused the younger ones and instead of getting professional help for any of the children, the parents "handled it" by locking Josh in a separate bedroom at night and covering the whole thing up.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I do see this as an extreme of the same issues and sickness I see in the Duggars.
Very much so.
Same thing... just farther out on the spectrum.
Much of what I know of the Duggars I would actually describe as controlling/abusive.
You don't have to be 'starved' to be controlled and abused.

 

[Skellingtonj]

This is so sickening close to Michele Dugger.

Oh I hope one of those duggars writes a tell all book.

 

[Wishing on a star]

That makes a lot of sense, and please I hope no one thinks I’m questioning their account or trying to minimize anything. These parents are absolute monsters and this entire situation is unthinkable. I personally am just having such a tough time wrapping my head around it and am trying to make sense of it.

I did some very limited work with children that were neglected and abused in the extreme (locked in closets for weeks, never let out of the house, chained in the yard cases). In those cases the kids abilities to function above instinct was gone. They would flinch from light, the rooms had to be kept dim for them; if someone accidentally touched them they would cower like an animal that was abused. There is zero way those children could have gone to a supermarket because there were non-functioning due to the abuse. They didn’t have the ability to please their abusers or rationally behave.

No two cases are the same and potentially having so many siblings in similar situations could have helped them cope. It’s just so hard to hear what they were experiencing and how well they seem to function (given how long standing and horrific their experience).

The thing is, they were def. confined... but they were not locked in dark closets for weeks.
And, the abuse does not seem to be actual physical 'beating' and injury????

In this case, as in some others... These kids were taught and forced, from infancy, how to march in formation, reiterate the correct phrases, and toe the line.
It all makes sense.

 

[MamaBelle4]

I'm a little surprised at the number of people who are so willing to believe the mother is a victim too.

Did you see her smug, smiling face on her mug shot? That is not the face of a woman who is surprised her children are treated this way.

Every time I see her mug shot, I am filled with a wave of dread. She is pure evil.

 

[mnrose]

So they went to Disney with their grandparents, was this just a day trip? Did they go for a few days? Did they get to eat normally there in front of their grandparents, or did they not eat?

I heard reports from the hospital that they had to be careful feeding them, couldn't give them too much too fast. I'm just curious how meals were handled on outings with other people. Did they get sick from eating some of the food their bodies weren't used to?

Such a sad story, my heart breaks for the atrocities they had to experience.

Refeeding syndrome is a real thing, and can be deadly. For this reason, people who have been severely calorie restricting need to have their calories slowly increased over the course of a few days to a week, and be carefully monitored during that time.


"Refeeding syndrome is a syndrome consisting of metabolic disturbances that occur as a result of reinstitution of nutrition to patients who are starved, severely malnourished or metabolically stressed due to severe illness. When too much food and/or liquid nutrition supplement is consumed during the initial four to seven days of refeeding this triggers synthesis of glycogen, fat and protein in cells, to the detriment of serum concentrations of potassium, magnesium and phosphorus.[1][2]Cardiac, pulmonary and neurological symptoms can be signs of refeeding syndrome. The low serum minerals, if severe enough, can be fatal."

When anorexics are first treated, it is often in an in patient setting (for those severely underweight) so that blood can be drawn and tested several times a day to ensure no signs of the chemical imbalances which can lead to death.

It is entirely possible that they didn't eat at all while at Disney. No one is following them around and watching them the entire time, so it's pretty easy to just not feed them and not raise any eyebrows. It could also be explained as a budget thing.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Thank you for the good information, mnrose.
I believe that there are comments out there by the authorities that show that they are well aware of all of this kind of thing, and that they do not expect any recovery to be overnight.

Hopefully these kids are in good hands!

PS: it would appear by some of the photos, that before these 'outings', the children were allowed a higher food intake, and did not look so emaciated.
It seems that their current condition now is just shocking and disturbing.

 

[Imzadi]

It is entirely possible that they didn't eat at all while at Disney. No one is following them around and watching them the entire time, so it's pretty easy to just not feed them and not raise any eyebrows. It could also be explained as a budget thing.

Yes, there have been posts on the Budget Board of how to cut up ONE apple to feed 5 people for a snack. So, not feeding the kids much may seem normal to some people at Disney.

 

[runwad]

It is entirely possible that they didn't eat at all while at Disney. No one is following them around and watching them the entire time, so it's pretty easy to just not feed them and not raise any eyebrows. It could also be explained as a budget thing.

But wouldn't it raise eyebrows with family? I thought there were some trips taken with other family members? Grandparents, not sure who else? One picture people were discussing someone's arm being that of an adult not one of the kids. Surely traveling with others it would raise a flag if those kids didn't eat all day, would it not?? That's what I can't wrap my head around.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Yes I do believe it was about conrtol, that's obvious. But I also feel like they were just plain cruel. There is no need to only allow one or two showers a year (I've seen conflicting reports) or starvation. To me, that's to cause pain and suffering.

The mother may have started as victim herself, but she's crossed the line. I mean... At what point did she begin the abuse? As toddlers? Elementary school age? Does she only nurture them when they're babies?

My thoughts aren't very organized right now and I know I'm rambling, but I'm just so disgusted and confused about it all.

 

[mnrose]

But wouldn't it raise eyebrows with family? I thought there were some trips taken with other family members? Grandparents, not sure who else? One picture people were discussing someone's arm being that of an adult not one of the kids. Surely traveling with others it would raise a flag if those kids didn't eat all day, would it not?? That's what I can't wrap my head around.

Not necessarily. Could have been easily passed off as "we'll eat when we're out of the park....it's too expensive." Add a few minor snacks tossed their direction (brought with them), and it could be believable.

 

[runwad]

^ Ya I guess. I'm thinking how we do the parks from sun up to sun down. It would be noticeable to my family if my kids didn't eat a complete meal in all that time. Maybe not the little one's but especially boys!

 

[tzolkin]

So they went to Disney with their grandparents, was this just a day trip? Did they go for a few days? Did they get to eat normally there in front of their grandparents, or did they not eat?
.

The one article said the grandparents spend 5 days visiting them in their home. Another had accounts of the deplorable conditions of their previous home (animal feces, trash, etc) to such an extent that they moved into a trailer on the property because the house became uninhabitable. So, I find it hard to believe the grandparents didn’t notice anything “off”.

I did some very limited work with children that were neglected and abused in the extreme (locked in closets for weeks, never let out of the house, chained in the yard cases). In those cases the kids abilities to function above instinct was gone. They would flinch from light, the rooms had to be kept dim for them; if someone accidentally touched them they would cower like an animal that was abused. There is zero way those children could have gone to a supermarket because there were non-functioning due to the abuse. They didn’t have the ability to please their abusers or rationally behave.

No two cases are the same and potentially having so many siblings in similar situations could have helped them cope. It’s just so hard to hear what they were experiencing and how well they seem to function (given how long standing and horrific their experience).

Totally making assumptions from the details provided, but it seems like the abuse significantly increased recently. Some previous neighbors regularly saw the kids playing outside (even with other children). Perhaps the kids had enough “normal” socializing and the abuse was not as severe at the time (some of these outings were several years ago) so they understood how to behave appropriately in public.

 

[OhMari]

I disagree. This case is nothing like the Duggar at all

Michelle paired the older children up to take care of the younger ones. They called each other buddies. Do you honestly think Michelle knew what was going on while she was 8-9 months pregnant, and had any idea what was going on the couple of months after each child was born? She relied on her older children to feed, bathe and take care of the younger ones.

 

[AppleDumpling]

The mother may have started as victim herself, but she's crossed the line. I mean... At what point did she begin the abuse? As toddlers? Elementary school age? Does she only nurture them when they're babies?

At the press conference, they listed the charges against the parents, one of which is 12 counts of torture. They said that the two-year-old was not included in the number because she is not malnourished like the rest. So for whatever reason, they fed the baby and spared her that suffering; perhaps she was still breastfeeding.

Another thing mentioned is that the entire family regularly slept during the daytime and were up all night. (Better to attract less attention from neighbors?) So going on a trip would require a change to the body rhythms they were used to, something that wouldn’t necessarily be an easy adjustment, especially for the younger kids. So in addition to hunger, they may have also been dealing with sleep deprivation at Disneyland.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'm a little surprised at the number of people who are so willing to believe the mother is a victim too.

Did you see her smug, smiling face on her mug shot? That is not the face of a woman who is surprised her children are treated this way.

Every time I see her mug shot, I am filled with a wave of dread. She is pure evil.

I agree. When I look at her I get the vibe that she is the one in control.
They are both monsters and evil people though, how could you do that to your children?
The ****ers don't deserve to breathe any longer.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree...... starred out word and all.

Having said that... there are many situations...
Back during WACO, David Koresh had such a total sick evil deception and control, those mother's turned their babies and young children over to him to be abusively 'corrected'....
Their young pre-teen daughters over to him to satisfy his sick desires.