The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[Charade]

Really...you just subscribing NOW?

Just found it!

I don't venture past page 1 or 2 much unless I'm reaaaaaaaaly bored.

 

[DISUNC]

Poor President Carter...

Man brokers the 1st Middle East peace treaty in the entire history of the bloody Arab/Israeli conflict and the brother still can't get any juice...

shhh...FTR...I still think Teddy Kennedy would have made a better president...

True! I honestly believe he was just way too nice to be President. he is definately the most Humane president in my lifetime.

FYI. My Friend & his family recently went to Carters Church in Plains Ga. They met him & his wife. Very open and accessible people. They had their pics taken with him.

 

[DISUNC]

Just found it!

I don't venture past page 1 or 2 much unless I'm reaaaaaaaaly bored.

Are you & posting tonight??????

 

[Charade]

Are you & posting tonight??????

Nope. Don't drink much. Why? Does it appear that way?

 

[DISUNC]

Nope. Don't drink much. Why? Does it appear that way?

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah!

 

[JARNJ3]

That's great, but after yesterday, I had a feeling Obama would take the ME vote away from Clinton. You know, when both candidates' stand on the issues are so close, I think that the nomination process turns into something a popularity contest, with the entire electorate wanting to be on the winning team. Obama's getting all the small wins and the ink that goes with it, so he appearsto be the more attractive candidate and gets the votes. Two, seeing that the Republican primaries are essentially over and we know the candidate to beat on the Republican side, more Democrats will automatically vote for Obama because he's seen as a slam dunk against McCain. The fact that McCain took the nomination so quickly in the end helped Obama. Even if she wins in TX, I'll be surprised if Hillary can regain any real traction from here on in.

I agree with you.

May I ask a question? Your signature quotes a phrase from Obama - just curious about the "asking you to believe in yours." What does that mean exactly? Is he asking for sacrifice from we the people? Or for us to change the way we live? Just curious. I'm not a fan of his "speechifying" so I tend not to listen in.........

That said - even if he does get the nod and win - I will be able to listen to the State of the Union again and go to the Hall of Presidents! The current president has the ability to set seizures off in my brain when he speaks!

Hey - is that a valid reason not to vote for someone?

 

[JARNJ3]

OK - I am starting to prepare myself in case Obama gets the nod. I need to be brought over to the "dark side....." (well its currently dark to me!)

Came across this opinion. Can someone from team Obama provide answers\opinions?

February 10, 2008
A Strategic Choice for Democrats
By David Broder

WASHINGTON -- When this remarkable political year began, many Democrats were expecting a smooth passage to a historic nomination and a relatively easy presidential victory. That is hardly the case today.

Sen. Hillary Clinton was clearly the established favorite among a large field of challengers, blessed with far more financial and organizational resources than anyone else and the best brand name in Democratic politics.

She was the center of attention, not only for the Democrats but for the Republican candidates as well -- the person they expected to face in the general election. As Republican aspirants were struggling to escape the downdraft of the self-immolation that had overtaken President Bush and the GOP Congress, with no assurance that anyone in the group could reassemble the scattered pieces of the Reagan legacy, all of them were focused on Clinton as the final barrier to keeping the White House.

Because the odds seemed so favorable for a Democratic victory in November, eight or nine candidates -- with varying degrees of plausibility -- decided it was worth the gamble to try to wrest the nomination from Clinton. The conventional wisdom at the start was that someone would emerge to challenge her after the first round of primaries and that she would probably defeat that unnamed opponent.

To everyone's surprise, the least credentialed of her opponents, young Sen. Barack Obama, turned out to have the personal and political skills that rocketed him past all the others. He beat the field in Iowa, stumbled briefly in New Hampshire and Nevada, recovered in South Carolina and emerged from Super Tuesday almost even with Clinton in delegates and ahead in the race for campaign dollars.

As the next phase of state-by-state contests begins, no one can claim the favorite's role in a Democratic contest that could go all the way to the national convention.

Meantime, on the Republican side, John McCain has resurrected his candidacy with a series of primary victories from New Hampshire through California, amassing enough delegates that his nomination is assured.

With Mitt Romney's withdrawal, and only Mike Huckabee, a friendly sparring partner, and the eccentric Ron Paul still running, Republicans can begin to focus on November. Their challenge is still difficult. The war in Iraq remains a heavy burden, its costs outweighing its dividends. The economy has turned down. And public weariness with the White House fuels a desire for change.

Nonetheless, McCain now has the luxury of time in which to mend his differences with some of his fellow conservatives and to pursue the independents whose support would make him a formidable contender.

Where Clinton was the measuring stick for all others in both parties during the past year, McCain now becomes the standard of comparison. As the Democratic race continues, the key question becomes, "Who matches up best against John McCain?"

That will increasingly be a factor for Democratic voters, who find themselves being fragmented on gender, racial and generational lines even in the absence of any serious policy or philosophical differences between the candidates.

And it will be even more central to the deliberations of the almost 800 "superdelegates" -- elected and party officials who may represent the balance of power at the convention.

Both Clinton and Obama are now framing their campaigns as a riposte to John McCain. Clinton argues that, given McCain's authority as a warrior and as a defense expert, her experience and toughness are essential for the Democrats to have a chance.

Obama counters with the claim that it is only by providing the sharpest of contrasts -- a generational gap linked to a flat-out denial of the strategic centrality of Iraq -- that the Democrats can confront McCain and hope to win.

As I have previously noted, Clinton and McCain come close to matching each other when voters are asked to compare their experience and their ability to bring needed change. But McCain has a huge lead on Obama when voters judge experience, and Obama has a large advantage when it comes to promoting change.

The Democratic contest is more than a battle of personalities. It represents two sharply contrasting strategies for victory in November. The choice is one Democrats never expected to face.
davidbroder@washpost.com

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

I agree with you.

May I ask a question? Your signature quotes a phrase from Obama - just curious about the "asking you to believe in yours." What does that mean exactly? Is he asking for sacrifice from we the people? Or for us to change the way we live? Just curious. I'm not a fan of his "speechifying" so I tend not to listen in.........

That said - even if he does get the nod and win - I will be able to listen to the State of the Union again and go to the Hall of Presidents! The current president has the ability to set seizures off in my brain when he speaks!

Hey - is that a valid reason not to vote for someone?

I believe he asking for, as you said, sacrifice, and personal change, as well as holding our leaders accountable for the things that they do and speaking out/voting our collective conscience when we disagree. Obviously, he's tapping into the fact that most Americans don't think that their voices can be heard in Washington anymore.

 

[JARNJ3]

I believe he asking for, as you said, sacrifice, and personal change, as well as holding our leaders accountable for the things that they do and speaking out/voting our collective conscience when we disagree. Obviously, he's tapping into the fact that most Americans don't think that their voices can be heard in Washington anymore.

Thanks - so this will probably be used to judge the success of his first term....

its such a shame - we were all ready to do that after 9/11........ such a waste of American willingness...... All they wanted was our money and our willingness to shop......

 

[eclectics]

OK - I am starting to prepare myself in case Obama gets the nod. I need to be brought over to the "dark side....." (well its currently dark to me!)

Came across this opinion. Can someone from team Obama provide answers\opinions?

I'll comment on one issue. If Iraq continues to be a top issue, I think Obama has the luxury of claiming he was opposed from the get go. If it's him and McCain in a general debate it's pretty clear cut. McCain=100 more years in Iraq while Obama=never supported it and never will. Seems to me the anti-war Independents have a no brainer. Of course the Republicans will try to bring up the terrorist fear factor and how those pesky Democrats won't protect you but that particular battle cry stopped working in the '06 elections and I think America finally figured out it was merely a scare tactic.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Thanks - so this will probably be used to judge the success of his first term....

its such a shame - we were all ready to do that after 9/11........ such a waste of American willingness...... All they wanted was our money and our willingness to shop......

Oh, you can count on it being used to judge the success of his first term...it's the core of what he's running on. I'm thinking the record breaking voter turnout on the Democratic side will help buoy our parties chances of picking up a number of congressional seats as well, which will help Obama's chances of actually passing some of the sweeping policy changes that he's interested in getting signed into law.

Don't even get me started on what "could have been" on Sept. 12th, 2001...

 

[profdsny]

I'll comment on one issue. If Iraq continues to be a top issue, I think Obama has the luxury of claiming he was opposed from the get go. If it's him and McCain in a general debate it's pretty clear cut. McCain=100 more years in Iraq while Obama=never supported it and never will. Seems to me the anti-war Independents have a no brainer. Of course the Republicans will try to bring up the terrorist fear factor and how those pesky Democrats won't protect you but that particular battle cry stopped working in the '06 elections and I think America finally figured out it was merely a scare tactic.

Mccain's still using that old saw. Seems to me I heard him in the last week or so talk about the "Dems waving the white flag."

 

[JARNJ3]

I'll comment on one issue. If Iraq continues to be a top issue, I think Obama has the luxury of claiming he was opposed from the get go. If it's him and McCain in a general debate it's pretty clear cut. McCain=100 more years in Iraq while Obama=never supported it and never will. Seems to me the anti-war Independents have a no brainer. Of course the Republicans will try to bring up the terrorist fear factor and how those pesky Democrats won't protect you but that particular battle cry stopped working in the '06 elections and I think America finally figured out it was merely a scare tactic.

ok - but what if something horrible happens in Iraq\Afghanistan - or Bush starts issuing the Terror Alerts again - would Obama look more commander in chief? Or McCain?

Stupidly - that's what got my brother to vote Bush in for a second term..... He bought the "Kerry is a flip flopper" message from Faux.......

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

I'll comment on one issue. If Iraq continues to be a top issue, I think Obama has the luxury of claiming he was opposed from the get go. If it's him and McCain in a general debate it's pretty clear cut. McCain=100 more years in Iraq while Obama=never supported it and never will. Seems to me the anti-war Independents have a no brainer. Of course the Republicans will try to bring up the terrorist fear factor and how those pesky Democrats won't protect you but that particular battle cry stopped working in the '06 elections and I think America finally figured out it was merely a scare tactic.

Does the Republican party even hold the high ground on terrorism anymore? I could have sworn that I read somewhere that the American public now trusts the Dems more than the Republicans when it comes to fighting terror these days...

 

[Fitswimmer]

ok - but what if something horrible happens in Iraq\Afghanistan - or Bush starts issuing the Terror Alerts again - would Obama look more commander in chief? Or McCain?

Stupidly - that's what got my brother to vote Bush in for a second term..... He bought the "Kerry is a flip flopper" message from Faux.......

Oh, I'm sure we're going to see it as the election comes closer. The fear game worked in 2004 and you know they're going to use it again. I'm sure that both the Clinton and Obama campaigns are well aware of the strategy that the Republicans will use and are preparing for it.

I was watching Russert today and they were talking about a National Security report that says we are LESS safe!!! This is a report coming out of the Administration!
My response if I'm the Democratic Candidate: Well, what in the name of all that's holy have these Republicans been DOING with all that money for 8 years!!!

 

[Charade]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah!

 

[eclectics]

ok - but what if something horrible happens in Iraq\Afghanistan - or Bush starts issuing the Terror Alerts again - would Obama look more commander in chief? Or McCain?
Stupidly - that's what got my brother to vote Bush in for a second term..... He bought the "Kerry is a flip flopper" message from Faux.......

Being as objective as I possibly can, I think both their statures and personalities are about equal in the "I'm the head honcho and I'll take care of you" department. I honestly don't think McCain will have an advantage there. The only thing he can possibly crow about is his experience, which I'm sure the Obama camp can poke many holes in, especially his support of Bush's policys which aren't too popular with anyone, except the 30% ers.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Just to switch gears a bit, anyone hear that John Edwards privately spoke with Hillary on Thursday and is going to talk to Obama tomorrow about a possible primary endorsement? Also, although she is denying it, friends are saying that Elizabeth Edwards is leaning towards Obama...

 

[eclectics]

Just to switch gears a bit, anyone hear that John Edwards privately spoke with Hillary on Thursday and is going to talk to Obama tomorrow about a possible primary endorsement? Also, although she is denying it, friends are saying that Elizabeth Edwards is leaning towards Obama...

He had a closed door meeting with Hillary right after he left the race. This meeting with Obama is the first one I've heard about. That doesn't mean they haven't had one previously, although it's kind of hard to do anything without someone finding out and reporting it. Edwards doesn't really have to endorse anybody yet, but it would sure help the party on it's road to some sort of closure if he did, imho. Same with Al Gore.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

He had a closed door meeting with Hillary right after he left the race. This meeting with Obama is the first one I've heard about. That doesn't mean they haven't had one previously, although it's kind of hard to do anything without someone finding out and reporting it. Edwards doesn't really have to endorse anybody yet, but it would sure help the party on it's road to some sort of closure if he did, imho. Same with Al Gore.

I wonder how much effect his endorsement will have on his supporters' decisions? My thinking is the majority of them have moved on and have already decided on another candidate by now.