The Great Depression II

Sun has been doing this since 2002. I worked for them, I went though 10 or more of those before my name was put on the list.


From 1998 until 2004, (some of those were very good years for the economy in general) my company routinely force ranked all salaried employees by performance and RIF'ed the bottom 10% each year. My son worked for Intel for a couple of years right after he graduated from college. His division was re-orged and he was RIF'ed in 2006 - long before any "crisis". I agree that a lot of layoffs go on in good and bad times as part of the way industries do business.
 
You've got to be kidding. People think they are really poor if they have to rent and only have one car??? I'd like to see the projects where you live. Here in Ohio, no one's stampeding to move into them.

I am certainly not advocating that people move into the projects nor am I saying that we aren't having a real economic crisis. The only point I was trying to make is that during the Great Depression there were not even projects to move into. People were homeless. There was no Medicare or low income housing. There were soup kitchens but I don't think you received much food from them. Fortunately since that time the government has developed a safety net for low income people, especially elderly people.

It was my understanding (because my grandfather ended up in a low income elderly housing complex) that the rent is based on a percentage of income. So if you only have Social Security you would pay 30% or something like that. That includes rent and all utilities except for your phone and TV. The rest is left for food. Maybe that isn't a lot but it should be enough for one person to eat on. These elderly people are not going to be homeless or starving.
 
I am certainly not advocating that people move into the projects nor am I saying that we aren't having a real economic crisis. The only point I was trying to make is that during the Great Depression there were not even projects to move into. People were homeless. There was no Medicare or low income housing. There were soup kitchens but I don't think you received much food from them. Fortunately since that time the government has developed a safety net for low income people, especially elderly people.

It was my understanding (because my grandfather ended up in a low income elderly housing complex) that the rent is based on a percentage of income. So if you only have Social Security you would pay 30% or something like that. That includes rent and all utilities except for your phone and TV. The rest is left for food. Maybe that isn't a lot but it should be enough for one person to eat on. These elderly people are not going to be homeless or starving.


If there's an economic crisis on the scale of the Great Depression, the amount of people needing help will swamp every state's resources.

Michigan food pantries are already running out. Triple the amount of unemployment, and you'll see plenty of people goign without food.
 
I am certainly not advocating that people move into the projects nor am I saying that we aren't having a real economic crisis. The only point I was trying to make is that during the Great Depression there were not even projects to move into. People were homeless. There was no Medicare or low income housing. There were soup kitchens but I don't think you received much food from them. Fortunately since that time the government has developed a safety net for low income people, especially elderly people.

People were homeless, except for those whose families took them in or helped them. My folks were children growing up during the Depression. I heard the stories first hand. My dad's people lived on a farm; they ate but not bountifully. He never wanted to eat much soup or stew for dinner because he'd had to eat so much of it as a child. My mom's folks relied upon her aunt and uncle for help who both had "good" jobs in Pittsburgh; neither suffered unemployment.

I'm always taken by those who feel burdened by today's cost of attending college, as though it's some kind of entitlement. Both of my folks wanted to go to college after they finished high school. Neither did because they couldn't afford to, although my mother attained her BS in Elementary Ed. later in life. It was a reality they had to accept. My mom walked 5 miles from her home to the nearest city every day, literally knocking on doors seeking work. That was FIVE miles ONE way.

It was my understanding (because my grandfather ended up in a low income elderly housing complex) that the rent is based on a percentage of income. So if you only have Social Security you would pay 30% or something like that. That includes rent and all utilities except for your phone and TV. The rest is left for food. Maybe that isn't a lot but it should be enough for one person to eat on. These elderly people are not going to be homeless or starving.

Actually, electricity is NOT included in my cousin's rent. She said it averaged $80 a month during the summer. If the Social Security check averaged $1000 a month--and quite a few Americans receive far less than that--the 30% calculation leaves $700 for other expenses. I can assure you that people need more than food and a phone. Now, drop the SS income down to $750 a month and you spend roughtly $250 on rent and $500 left for other expenses. Narrows the quality of life down considerably.

I recently drove down and took her to Kohl's. She bought two bras, a bath mat (so she wouldn't fall in the shower), and some other incidental item. Even with discounts, she paid $74. We both choked. She has a supplemental medicial insurance premium. A long-term care policy to pay. She sometimes has to pay for a transport service if her nephew who lives in Pittsburgh can't take her to the grocery or doctor. Those transport services aren't cheap. I think the bus service is limited. She has to pay some portion of her medications and her Medicare 20% co-pay. And then she has the building management combing through her bank statements to see what she's spending money on and what deposits go into her account. After all, we can't have these old folks mooching off the government.

Those "little expenses" all add up. And yes, she has to eat. So, I guess if all older folks need is a roof over their head, can sit in the dark, without air conditioning in the heat of summer, go naked, forgo trips to the doctor or hospital, they're doing all right. (She said tongue in cheek.)

One thing about the elderly: They'll seldom (in my experience anyhow) ask for financial assistance. My cousin didn't; I just knew from her letters she was struggling.
 

I am certainly not advocating that people move into the projects nor am I saying that we aren't having a real economic crisis. The only point I was trying to make is that during the Great Depression there were not even projects to move into. People were homeless. There was no Medicare or low income housing. There were soup kitchens but I don't think you received much food from them. Fortunately since that time the government has developed a safety net for low income people, especially elderly people.

It was my understanding (because my grandfather ended up in a low income elderly housing complex) that the rent is based on a percentage of income. So if you only have Social Security you would pay 30% or something like that. That includes rent and all utilities except for your phone and TV. The rest is left for food. Maybe that isn't a lot but it should be enough for one person to eat on. These elderly people are not going to be homeless or starving.

But you forget that elderly people have more medical expenses, what they have left for food is also used for medication. I have seen elderly people who have cut their pills into to make the medicine last longer. All of this was before the current problems.
 
Those "little expenses" all add up. And yes, she has to eat. So, I guess if all older folks need is a roof over their head, can sit in the dark, without air conditioning in the heat of summer, go naked, forgo trips to the doctor or hospital, they're doing all right. (She said tongue in cheek.)

I would never expect someone to live that way, but it is also a personal responsiblity to save something for yourself for retirement. The initial point that I was trying to make is that I don't think we will ever get into the second Great Depression due to the government's safety net. And personally I would rather my tax dollars go to helping the elderly than to an able bodied young person who has learned to work the system.
 
I would never expect someone to live that way, but it is also a personal responsiblity to save something for yourself for retirement. The initial point that I was trying to make is that I don't think we will ever get into the second Great Depression due to the government's safety net. And personally I would rather my tax dollars go to helping the elderly than to an able bodied young person who has learned to work the system.

That's the thing about saving: The best laid plans go awry. There are a lot of Americans opening 401K/IRA statements this quarter (just wait until NEXT quarter's results) and wondering where their savings went.

Personally, I wouldn't--and don't--depend upon the government's safety net. I do think, however, that assumption is made by many Americans, and it's easy to dismiss the need that both the elderly, the unemployed, and underemployed currently are experiencing.

Whether we enter another depression is yet to be determined. My concern is that we've turned from relying upon and helping our families to assuming the government will do it.

If there is another depression, will we survive it? Yes, but only by being mindful of those who have less.
 


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