The Flash is a massive flop for DC, can Marvel capitalize on this?

[PolymerSkywalker]

The Flash appears to be on track to lose $200+ Million for DC. What a colossal and massive flop this will be, can Marvel pounce with a very wounded DC here and capture that market share?

Does Marvel have a window while DC is rebooting here to get the MCU back on track?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

nobody has any thoughts? does it seem like a slower than normal day on here, seems like the post volume is way down.

 

[BrianL]

Well, I didn't see Flash and didn't really have thoughts about it. I don't think that what happens to DC will impact the MCU much.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Gotcha. I liked the DC comics better than the Marvel ones growing up, so I have always followed DC a good bit. The Joker movie with Joaquin Phoenix was probably one the best comic book movies in the last decade imho. However, the rest of their stuff has been hot garbage lately. I read a ton of Batman as a kid, and I loved the conflicted / complex hero.

 

[leiaorgana]

Glad it flopped. Ezra Miller doesn’t deserve a platform after everything they’ve done the last few years.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Glad it flopped. Ezra Miller doesn’t deserve a platform after everything they’ve done the last few years.

Agreed, Ezra seems like a pretty garbage human being if just half of the reported things are true.

 

[disneyfan123]

Well Disney/MCU movies don't seem to be doing any better these days, either. Ant Man 3 was just ok, and I really liked the first 2, so it was a bit disappointing. Guardians 3 was great, but the rest of the movies that are slated to come out in the next year or two don't really excite me.

Curious to see what Captain America 4 will be like; that's my favourite trilogy of the MCU and I liked Falcon & Winter Soldier, so hopefully it's a hit, but otherwise not much grabs my attention. They need to get back to telling good stories, and not just focusing their resources on special effects. CA: Winter Soldier and Civl War just a great movies, period. Intriguing characters, good plot, and helped build a larger narrative. I'm sorry, but I just don't care about a nano-world filled with jello people.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Well Disney/MCU movies don't seem to be doing any better these days, either. Ant Man 3 was just ok, and I really liked the first 2, so it was a bit disappointing. Guardians 3 was great, but the rest of the movies that are slated to come out in the next year or two don't really excite me.

Curious to see what Captain America 4 will be like; that's my favourite trilogy of the MCU and I liked Falcon & Winter Soldier, so hopefully it's a hit, but otherwise not much grabs my attention. They need to get back to telling good stories, and not just focusing their resources on special effects. CA: Winter Soldier and Civl War just a great movies, period. Intriguing characters, good plot, and helped build a larger narrative. I'm sorry, but I just don't care about a nano-world filled with jello people.

I agree with you that Marvel has been nothing special lately either. I thought Guardians was pretty good, but the rest has been pretty meh.

 

[BrianL]

I agree with you that Marvel has been nothing special lately either. I thought Guardians was pretty good, but the rest has been pretty meh.

True, some of the movies have been a little soft by Marvel standards, but they haven't exactly done poorly.

• Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness:
  • $955.8M ($200M Budget)
• Thor: Love and Thunder:
  • $760.9M ($250M Budget)
• Black Panther: Wakanda Forever:
  • $859.2M ($250M Budget)
• Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania:
  • $476.1M ($200M Budget)
• Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3:
  • $823.8M ($250M Budget)

Those ain't exactly flops! Ant-Man is the softest one, but still did okay. Sure, they don't quite live up to some of the bigger Marvel films, but they all star lower-tier characters. Black Panthe would have done better too had BP actually been in it. Really, Marvel is doing just fine, especially for a 15 year old franchise with 32 movies under its belt. It's actually pretty incredible.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

• Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness:
  • $955.8M ($200M Budget)
  • Add around a $100M in marketing and this movie made some profit.
• Thor: Love and Thunder:
  • $760.9M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely broke even.
• Black Panther: Wakanda Forever:
  • $859.2M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie made some profit.
• Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania:
  • $476.1M ($200M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely lost money.
• Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3:
  • $823.8M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely made some profit.

So, 5 movies, one lost money, one broke even, and three made some profit. Not too bad, but certainly not where Marvel wants to be as far as profitability goes imho.

 

[BrianL]

• Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness:
  • $955.8M ($200M Budget)
  • Add around a $100M in marketing and this movie made some profit.
• Thor: Love and Thunder:
  • $760.9M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely broke even.
• Black Panther: Wakanda Forever:
  • $859.2M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie made some profit.
• Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania:
  • $476.1M ($200M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely lost money.
• Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3:
  • $823.8M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely made some profit.

So, 5 movies, one lost money, one broke even, and three made some profit. Not too bad, but certainly not where Marvel wants to be as far as profitability goes imho.

I already scaled my budgets to include P&A, or I used the high-end of the budget estimate since they don't really reveal P&A numbers. Also, $100 si a tad high for most of these movies, except for mayne Wakanda Forever as that thing was plastered everywhere!

 

[disneyfan123]

• Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness:
  • $955.8M ($200M Budget)
  • Add around a $100M in marketing and this movie made some profit.
• Thor: Love and Thunder:
  • $760.9M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely broke even.
• Black Panther: Wakanda Forever:
  • $859.2M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie made some profit.
• Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania:
  • $476.1M ($200M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely lost money.
• Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3:
  • $823.8M ($250M Budget)
  • Add around $100M in marketing and this movie likely made some profit.

So, 5 movies, one lost money, one broke even, and three made some profit. Not too bad, but certainly not where Marvel wants to be as far as profitability goes imho.

True…studios only take about 1/2 of box office revenue, and add in the extreme marketing budgets and the tentpole films really need to gross $1B to make serious profit. It’s kind of crazy.

 

[BrianL]

True…studios only take about 1/2 of box office revenue, and add in the extreme marketing budgets and the tentpole films really need to gross $1B to make serious profit. It’s kind of crazy.

The budget figures may not be exact, but they were already the high-end of the scale and likely include P&A. Regardless of out-of-control budgets, these movies all sold a lot of tickets and are generally successful, even if a couple were only moderately so.

 

[dioxide45]

We went to see it last night, it was entertaining enough even though it had a convoluted storyline. I think for many people, we are kind of over the studios churning out the same stuff to try and make a quick buck. I groan whenever I see a trailer for a new superhero movie. I also groan when I see one with Tom Hanks in it, but that is a different story. So much coming out of Hollywood these days is just regurgitated garbage with very little new content. I don't think there is any real way for Marvel to capitalize on the flop from The Flash. People aren't going to be anymore excited to go and see a Marvel film just because The Flash flopped.

 

[DodgerGirl]

When you get the general picture Marvel and DC have always been in heavy competition with each other when it comes to comic book heroes and cartoons and movies. Take for example DC has Batman and Superman as their top heroes and Marvel has Captain America and Spider-Man and Hulk as their superstar heroes. But why I think Marvel has always been second in command to DC is simply because Marvel Comics are better than DC Comics and the Marvel movies and shows are better and make money. Take for instance when Black Adam was released in theaters it recieved a low audience reaction because a lot of people who mainly watched it were The Rock fans. Why I think The Flash flopped is because it was simply not the success DC had hoped for especially since Ezra Miller's constant troubles were over so he could star in the movie. And like The Flash the main reason why the Ant-Man And The Wasp sequel failed in theaters for Marvel was because of Jonathan Major's troubles. And it was Guardians Of The Galaxy 3 that made Marvel a top hit for movies and helped them recover after Black Panther Wakanda Forever did alright but it just wasn't the same without Chadwick Boseman and what could've helped was casting a replacement actor for Chadwick. Another thing that DC often does that Marvel has done is make cartoons of DC characters like Cartoon Network has the DC Superhero Girls which are based on a line of dolls made by Mattel and countless Batman and Superman cartoons. In Marvel cartoons you see Marvel Rise which is a cartoon based on a doll line by Hasbro and X-Men cartoons and Avengers cartoons and those cartoons are hits for Marvel. Hopefully with the release of Nova in 2024 and the upcoming shows such as Vision Quest with Paul Bettany debuting on Disney+ also in 2024 Marvel will still be hot and successful

 

[Skywalker3]

I thought all of the DC stuff were flops, except Wonder Woman, the first one. I still do want to see The Flash, I enjoyed his character in Justice League. I'll likely just wait for streaming though. I don't go to the movies much. I haven't really liked the other DC movies, except Justice League, the original, not Snyder cut, and Wonder Woman. WW 1 was so great. I"ve been a big WW fan since the 70s show w Lynda Carter, and Superfriends, and thought Gal Gadot was perfect. Momoa as Aquaman was great casting too, except the movies were silly. At first, I wasn't on board with them dropping all of these actors for a complete re-do, wish they'd keep those 2, but maybe it'll be for the best, and the new DC universe will be great.
finally watched Ant-Man 3....nah. Too ridiculous. I did love Guardians 3, thought it wrapped that up really nicely. Overall, I'm not a fan of the multiverse movies, and if they keep going with that concept, I may not keep on with all of them.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The budget figures may not be exact, but they were already the high-end of the scale and likely include P&A. Regardless of out-of-control budgets, these movies all sold a lot of tickets and are generally successful, even if a couple were only moderately so.

I just don't think your numbers are accurate.

For example you have:

Multiverse at $200M all in budget and deadline list it as $496M

Thor Love and Thunder at $250M all in budget and deadline list it as $547M

Wakanda Forever at $250M all in budget and deadline list it as $491M

Seems way off from published numbers, is Deadline massively inflating things in their very detailed breakdowns?

 

[Smugpugmug]

I don't think Ezra Miller is the main reason why this flopped, though their awful actions and Warner Bros. sweeping it under the rug doesn't help. I think it's a perception issue with DC films. Many of them are straight up bad films and the DC cinematic universe is a joke compared to the MCU. I also don't think the character of the Flash resonates with enough people to go see a movie about him but I'm mainly speaking from an outside perspective (as in not a comic book fan).

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I don't think Ezra Miller is the main reason why this flopped, though their awful actions and Warner Bros. sweeping it under the rug doesn't help. I think it's a perception issue with DC films. Many of them are straight up bad films and the DC cinematic universe is a joke compared to the MCU. I also don't think the character of the Flash resonates with enough people to go see a movie about him but I'm mainly speaking from an outside perspective (as in not a comic book fan).

I agree with that.

Also, why spend any time with a DC movie right now when they are basically about to blow it up and recast everyone?

The Joker was the best thing Disney has done in a good while now, but I did think the last Batman was really good also. I like the gritty more realistic Batman depiction.

 

[BrianL]

I just don't think your numbers are accurate.

For example you have:

Multiverse at $200M all in budget and deadline list it as $496M

Thor Love and Thunder at $250M all in budget and deadline list it as $547M

Wakanda Forever at $250M all in budget and deadline list it as $491M

Seems way off from published numbers, is Deadline massively inflating things in their very detailed breakdowns?

Well, I don't know about Deadline as a numbers website, but I got the production budgets from Wikipedia. That said, I checked a few with the-numbers.com, a reputable site, and they are the same. They don't specifically say that P&A is or is not included, but I think it should be. Wikipedia reported a range, and I took the highest in each case. P&A is often not enumerated though and sometimes is not attributed to a films cost exactly (like when a campaign may feature multiple films). It's difficult to say. $547M though sounds EXTREMELY high for Thor. P&A should only add $75M to $100M at most.