The downhill slide - Disney's lost direction

[doconeill]

Against my better judgement I've been involved in yet another TFH on the theme parks boards (ironically, the prior one I was basically called a Disney apologist, would follow Disney over the cliff, etc., whereas this one I'm "anti-Disney" in a sense). It started out someone asking where to send a complaint, went through the usual popcorn eating crud, and morphed into several different discussions, lately about what "check-in" time really means if they don't really have the rooms ready at the official check-in time...

Anyways, what I realized is this: Disney is no longer trying to live up to its own ideals, and is even operating to the contrary. Disney USED to be the company that set standards that all others strived (and often failed) to meet. Now they seem to have trouble meeting the standards of others.

We know it with dining, we are seeing it with not getting rooms until well after check-in time.

Where else did Disney used to set the bar and now can't even see it?

 

[disneyphilip]

I'm sorry, but, IMO, this thread is totally useless and unnecessary.

 

[doconeill]

I'm sorry, but, IMO, this thread is totally useless and unnecessary.

Wow, i feel just like I'm on the theme parks board

I wouldn't have posted it if I thought it was unnecessary. I'm interested in the discussion.

I'm not talking about a duplicate of the "downhill" thread. I'm talking about where Disney as a corporation (with a focus on the Parks and Resorts division, since that is what we are familiar with) used to be a leader, but now seems to be average to less than average, and why.

 

[soupy11]

So Disney isn't living up to it's standards because a room wasn't ready on time? I guess I really don't see it that way, I mean, any company is going to have some unforeseen hiccups, but as long as it's not a repeating glitch, I can't really find much fault in them.

I also find extreme value in my dollars that I spend at Disney when I compare them to some other vacations that I've recently had. In fact, I am willing to rank them at the top of my list for value compared to my ski trips, my cottage rentals, my trips to Quebec, etc, etc. I easily spend an equivalent amount of money and receive maybe a slim sliver of the return when it comes to entertainment.

I am sure you will get many people agreeing that Disney is losing their way, but call me an apologist, I just can't state that with any conviction. I wonder if the declining customer service standards that I see all around me are just creating an illusion of this value, but I sincerely feel a great deal of satisfaction from my Disney dollar expenditures.

 

[lugnut33]

Maybe I'm not as worldly as other travelers, but I think Disney does a darn good job. I wish my vacations were always perfect, but I know that's not possible so I just try to take everything with a spoonful of sugar. I also give major kudos to the cast members who I feel have a difficult job hearding all us animals in the parks.

I know I've been hard on WDW when it comes to food, but considering it's a theme park they do a pretty good job and over time there will always be ebbs and flows in quality and service. Heck, look at Disneyland, depending on who is heading it up the quality goes up and down. Opening day at DL was a disaster and Walt was in charge.

Not saying everything is peferct at WDW, just that it's still awesome and me and my family love it.

 

[doconeill]

I must be really missing the mark from what I intended. I'm not looking to bring the debate about a late room here. I'm not talking about the value of disney in general. I'm talking about disney not setting the standards like they used to and are instead willing to fall short of it. This is not about any one incident.

 

[soupy11]

I don't see them doing what your witnessing though. My trips have all been exceptional, just as I expected, and far superior to my other vacation destinations. I guess that is not what the thread is about though, so my apologies for reading it a bit sideways.

 

[JacksLilWench]

I think for my dollar, Disney is a good value (IMO) for my money. We don't take many trips throughout the year, but in spite of that I still feel really good about putting all my eggs in Disney's basket, so to speak. Yes, I do think there are things they could improve upon (variety of food at restaurants, amenities offered at resorts, etc), but as a whole, when it comes to things that are important to me, Disney does those very well (guest satisfaction, variety of activities available, etc). Hope this doesn't seem OT, OP!

 

[doconeill]

I'm not saying in general Disney isn't a good value. I wouldn't be a DVC member otherwise.

Let me give a more concrete example, which I know the podcasters have encountered.

Disney used to be the tops in customer service. Other corporations sent their people to Disney to learn.

Read the theme park boards and see what is going on today. People call up Disney Ticketing, and ask question about tickets, and get very, very wrong answers. Can you get in at 4pm with a MNSSHP or MVMCP ticket alone? What happens when you upgrade a ticket purchased from Undercover Tourist 6 months ago to an AP? All of these things are coming up over and over again, with inconsistent and often incorrect results. These aren't one-off incidents either.

And as for Disneyland's opening day...Walt learned a LOT from that one.

 

[JacksLilWench]

I'm not saying in general Disney isn't a good value. I wouldn't be a DVC member otherwise.

Let me give a more concrete example, which I know the podcasters have encountered.

Disney used to be the tops in customer service. Other corporations sent their people to Disney to learn.

Read the theme park boards and see what is going on today. People call up Disney Ticketing, and ask question about tickets, and get very, very wrong answers. Can you get in at 4pm with a MNSSHP or MVMCP ticket alone? What happens when you upgrade a ticket purchased from Undercover Tourist 6 months ago to an AP? All of these things are coming up over and over again, with inconsistent and often incorrect results. These aren't one-off incidents either.

And as for Disneyland's opening day...Walt learned a LOT from that one.

Ohhh, I see what you mean now!

And in that case, I definitely agree with you that they have slipped. You can't NOT slip when you cut your training program from two weeks to half a day. It took more training for me to work at the mall during holiday season, for goodness' sakes. But I also think times have changed a LOT in the last ten years or so. You have a lot of people now that work at Disney because it's a paycheck. While there's no shame in doing what you can to pay your bills (As long as it's legal!), there are people working there now because they have to, not because they want to. I do "keep the faith" that they will one day become the standard.

PS: I wish I could be a DVC member too!

 

[WaltD4Me]

I'm not saying in general Disney isn't a good value. I wouldn't be a DVC member otherwise.

Let me give a more concrete example, which I know the podcasters have encountered.

Disney used to be the tops in customer service. Other corporations sent their people to Disney to learn.

Read the theme park boards and see what is going on today. People call up Disney Ticketing, and ask question about tickets, and get very, very wrong answers. Can you get in at 4pm with a MNSSHP or MVMCP ticket alone? What happens when you upgrade a ticket purchased from Undercover Tourist 6 months ago to an AP? All of these things are coming up over and over again, with inconsistent and often incorrect results. These aren't one-off incidents either.

And as for Disneyland's opening day...Walt learned a LOT from that one.

I went to MNSSHP in 2004, I read here that you could in at 4pm, I called Disney to confirm and they told me no, I couldn't get in until 7pm. That was six years ago, for whatever reason they can't seem to convey the correct information about this and it makes me think it's partially intentional.

On the flip side...Disney is looking to cut costs like just about every other company out there. Whether they need to or not may be up for debate, but I'd rather have them hiring cheaper CRS's or have CSR's that work from home than cut back more in the parks. I'm not excusing them, but if I have to choose, I'd rather have them cutback in places that don't directly effect the park experience. I realize there have been cut backs there too and I will be checking things out for myself when I go in November, but before that I'm not going to put a whole lot of stock in everything that is being said on the Theme Parks board. People love to complain and are far less likely to compliment. I'm not sure I have EVER seen a thread about a wonderful CSR reservation experience and I know they do happen, but that is not what people post about. Look at the "Has Disney Gone Downhill thread" it is pages and pages long. A few people have tried to post "What is good at Disney" threads, but those are no fun, they get a lot fewer responses and I don't believe that is because no one has any good experiences, it's because people want to read the train wreck threads. I am not a Disney apologist, Disney has done some things that I am not at all happy about, but for now I'm going to wait 2 months and see for myself if things have really gone downhill as much as some have said.

 

[simmons_m]

Interesting topic.
My Family and I continue to plan vacations at Disney World and Disneyland. We do so because of the value, and the ability of Disney to meet our high expectations. That being said, I think some of the issues are related to resetting the bar. Disney at this point in time seems to be more focused in reseting the bar with personal technology, and less so on the items that impact the masses. I believe this is a resource based decision.
I do think that the opening of Harry Potter will have an impact on future development and growth within Disney.

 

[Kaleigh]

I agree, Doc. I love Disney hotels and will continue to spend extra to stay at them, but do find it odd that WiFi isn't free. And they took longer than most hotels even getting WiFi at all. I have had to wait until 5:00 for a room before. Room service is not anywhere near worth it to me. And I feel like the bus service has deteriorated. It cannot be called good service when you pay 350 a night and share a bus with 4 other resorts. All that said, Disney still has my favorite hotels anywhere.

 

[dansyr2514]

I've heard so much of this lately and I'm not putting anyone down for mentioning it...that I'm wondering if hearing everyone's experiences and doing so much research before I go may have jaded my opinion on certain things. I'm going to have to agree that we here on the dis know much more than some of the cast members we call to answer the questions we have.
I thought Disney was unbelievably magical and could find no fault with it when I started going a little over 10 yrs ago. So I started to wonder...... were the cast members so much better or was I just unaware of what I should expect based on what other people were getting.

I will be heading down to visit the mouse again in 15 days. This time I vow to just enjoy... and not base my opinions on what I've heard or what I've read.
I will definitely give my opinion when I get back and I going to do my best to base my opinion on only what I experience this trip.

 

[cm8]

Interesting topic.
My Family and I continue to plan vacations at Disney World and Disneyland. We do so because of the value, and the ability of Disney to meet our high expectations. That being said, I think some of the issues are related to resetting the bar. Disney at this point in time seems to be more focused in reseting the bar with personal technology, and less so on the items that impact the masses. I believe this is a resource based decision.
I do think that the opening of Harry Potter will have an impact on future development and growth within Disney.

Agreed. When it comes to selling am "image" or "fairytale" disney should have to live up to what it has been known to promise and deliver in the past. Making magic is what made wdw into what it is today, and if they can not live up to the magic that they sold us buyers on, then they should change it.Times have changed and people have too, but I believe that wdw is required to give the "fairytale" that they advertise.

If they fail to continue to deliver the magic as promised, they should be required to change their image as they are no longer what they claimed No one seems to care about what was or what used to be, wdw is not living up to it's part of the fairytale and they had better realize it or risk losing what made them into what they are/was today.... If wdw charges me for a really nice 13 course meal, that is what I expect to eat, if they start sending me out happy meals instead of what I paid for, I think there will be some issues that needs to be resolved. If they can no longer live up to their image, then they need to quit selling the "dream"

 

[SnackyStacky]

I think there's more than one issue at play with this discussion.

The first and most important issue is, as doc mentioned, expectation. There's a LOT of inflated expectation on the part of Disney guests. I truly believe that. But at the same time I feel it's justified. Again, as was mentioned, Disney set the standard themselves - but aside from that, they continue to set people's expectations by charging the prices that they do.

This, I think, segues into a second issue going on here, which is value; both real and perceived. And in the end, the ONLY thing that matters to Disney's bottom line is the perceived value. Whether or not there is value in what Disney is providing for the prices they charge; well, that's a discussion for another thread. But for the purposes of "downhill" discussion, you really have to focus strictly on the perceived value.

The problem with perceived value is that it's something that's simply not measureable - because by it's very definition, perceived value is going to change from guest to guest. That which the casual visitor sees, who has never been to Walt Disney World, will be evaluated on a MUCH different scale than the die hard fan who's been visiting since 1971.

For a pretty nifty, fairly objective view, check out MiceAge's Kevin Yee's column: "Decline By Degrees".

I consider it to be relatively objective because Kevin isn't trashing Disney, or issuing blanket statements like "Disney's not what it used to be". Rather, he takes a look at the parks and as a regular, takes note of what has been changing for the worse. To be fair, he also was noting improvements around the parks.

While I think this could be a pretty interesting discussion, I have to agree with the poster who stated that it probably really won't go anywhere. Because while you can change someone's line of thinking, you cannot change their past experiences. And it's past experiences, or lack thereof, that are going to determine whether or not someone thinks the parks are going downhill.

 

[nickyb720]

I agree that the information does get screwed up. It happened when we were down there a few weeks ago and the extra magic hours listed at one of the parks were non-existent. I blame that on lack of communication, which goes to show you that the staffing has definetely been cut. I don't think it's a matter of resetting the bar, I think it is the lack of staffing. But i will say this though.

• 
  The Parks are still clean
  
  The food was great where we went
  
  The Transportation was convient
  
  The room was clean and cool.

I'd take that over anything.

 

[flyingcat2003]

Let me begin by saying I love Disney. However, I do have a few complaints just like everyone else. It seems to me the main culprit to some of these issues lies in the outsourcing of services. My biggest pet peeve is the bus service. Anyone staying at SSR feels my pain. I blame this on contract services.

 

[BriarRosie]

I agree, Doc. I love Disney hotels and will continue to spend extra to stay at them, but do find it odd that WiFi isn't free. And they took longer than most hotels even getting WiFi at all. I have had to wait until 5:00 for a room before. Room service is not anywhere near worth it to me. And I feel like the bus service has deteriorated. It cannot be called good service when you pay 350 a night and share a bus with 4 other resorts. All that said, Disney still has my favorite hotels anywhere.

If check in time is 3pm, I think 5pm is not acceptable. For DVC resorts, it's a 4pm check in, so I would give that 1 hour cushion as a glitch. I recently read a post where the family's room wasn't ready until 6:30pm. I find that completely unacceptable.

I'm all for being tolerant within reason, but anything more than an hour is pushing it, IMHO. I've been lucky enough to check in and have a room ready, but often it's not, which is my expectation. I think if many people are experiencing these problems, the general manager should be taking a closer look at the housekeeping staff and its management.

As for bus service, I've also experienced the Swan/Dolphin/Yacht/Beach/Boardwalk bus. But, during the busiest rush hours for the parks, the route is split so there is no more than 3 stops. The Magic Kingdom resorts also have to split and share bus service. It's a flawed system, but it's probably too expensive for Disney to explore other transportation options.

 

[TangaroaTiki]

Against my better judgement I've been involved in yet another TFH on the theme parks boards (ironically, the prior one I was basically called a Disney apologist, would follow Disney over the cliff, etc., whereas this one I'm "anti-Disney" in a sense). It started out someone asking where to send a complaint, went through the usual popcorn eating crud, and morphed into several different discussions, lately about what "check-in" time really means if they don't really have the rooms ready at the official check-in time...

Anyways, what I realized is this: Disney is no longer trying to live up to its own ideals, and is even operating to the contrary. Disney USED to be the company that set standards that all others strived (and often failed) to meet. Now they seem to have trouble meeting the standards of others.

We know it with dining, we are seeing it with not getting rooms until well after check-in time.

Where else did Disney used to set the bar and now can't even see it?

As far as the check-in time goes - We checked into the Boardwalk, followed by the Contemporary a week later, this past July and our rooms were available by 10AM