The disney "value" vs other products

[bullygsmokes]

I was listening to the podcast last week and heard Kevin equate Disney prices to broadway or concert tickets. This is absolutely NOT true. Broadway shows can be found at a great discount through early sales, last minute resales, promo codes, and the GIANT ticket booth in times square selling tickets around half price every day. It is also rare to have concert tickets that don't go for well below face value closer to the event. I have been attending major shows and events in NYC for years and have more often spent LESS for a day than going to Disney world.

Disney is almost one of a kind in the way they can charge such high prices people are locked into for a place that is a massive tourist destination. Their pricing is much more in line with boutique parks and experiences such as premium zip lines, vip wildlife tours, discovery cove, etc even though they have such high volume. It's ok to like something and spend premium money to experience it, but it's also ok to recognize something as just expensive. There is always something people can find that is more expensive we can compare to disney and call disney a better deal. I feel like this kind of logic just gives disney a pass for bad behavior.

 

[Nabas]

Comparing WDW to a Broadway show, concert, or NFL game is misleading. These tickets are much scarcer than WDW tickets. An NFL team, for example, has 8 or 9 home games, selling perhaps 70,000 seats. WDW needs fill up 4 theme parks with an average of roughly 40,000 Guests each, 365 days a year.

Really, the most appropriate comparison are other amusement parks, which generally charge much less than WDW and Universal.

Arguably, the second best comparison is Major League Baseball. An MLB team needs to sell a couple of million tickets every year. WDW needs to sell tens-of-millions of theme park admissions every year.

You want to talk about value? Then compare WDW to the Grand Canyon, where admission is essentially free.

Again, the only fair comparison (IMO) is with other amusement parks, with Universal being the most appropriate.

 

[bullygsmokes]

Comparing WDW to a Broadway show, concert, or NFL game is misleading. These tickets are much scarcer than WDW tickets. An NFL team, for example, has 8 or 9 home games, selling perhaps 70,000 seats. WDW needs fill up 4 theme parks with an average of roughly 40,000 Guests each, 365 days a year.

Really, the most appropriate comparison are other amusement parks, which generally charge much less than WDW and Universal.

Arguably, the second best comparison is Major League Baseball. An MLB team needs to sell a couple of million tickets every year. WDW needs to sell tens-of-millions of theme park admissions every year.

You want to talk about value? Then compare WDW to the Grand Canyon, where admission is essentially free.

Again, the only fair comparison (IMO) is with other amusement parks, with Universal being the most appropriate.

Universal allows me to buy cheaper season passes. Disney makes me spend $1300 as an out of state visitor. When I talk about value I mean to say is it actually possible to get a deal if I am really planning well. With other ticketed events and experiences I can recognize when I choose to go to a particularly popular time or day. With disney I am stuck with whatever they are charging and the floor for variable parking is still large and the dates for the lowest prices limited. Even NFL games can be had for pretty cheap if you just want to get into a game.

Just having total capacity be scarcer doesn't paint the whole picture. Many concert and events have the pressure to sell every seat they can. Disney today has made their goal pushing average guest spend higher over filling the park to capacity and the CEO has already shown they will cut entertainment and services before they will discount the price.

 

[Nabas]

Universal allows me to buy cheaper season passes. Disney makes me spend $1300 as an out of state visitor. When I talk about value I mean to say is it actually possible to get a deal if I am really planning well. With other ticketed events and experiences I can recognize when I choose to go to a particularly popular time or day. With disney I am stuck with whatever they are charging and the floor for variable parking is still large and the dates for the lowest prices limited. Even NFL games can be had for pretty cheap if you just want to get into a game.

You also sometimes can get cheap NFL seats for most games if you buy close to kick-off. But popular games will be sold out.

 

[bullygsmokes]

You also sometimes can get cheap NFL seats for most games if you buy close to kick-off. But popular games will be sold out.

right but I don't go to peak christmas or spring break at disney. I go to what would be comparable to preseason or a crappy opponent.

 

[eMoneyBug]

I was browsing Kualua Ranch in Oahu as excursion day and it was $170 for a few hours doing their zip line, they have other offerrings but anything you pick it's gonna add up for the family to buy so many tickets.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

The value proposition of a place like WDW Resort isn't the one day ticket at the Magic Kingdom. It's the volume of activities and options all within a single confined space.

Sure, I can travel to Toronto and go to Canada's Wonderland for a weekend at a fraction of the price as Disney (even though they charge $18.99 for a hot dog and a small fry with no drink) and have a great time. But after a day or two, I'm bored. It's a single amusement park with off the shelf rides and that's it. It's great for what it is.

WDW is 4 world class theme parks, 2 Waterparks, shopping/dining/entertainment complex, 100+ different food options, 20+ themed resorts to explore, multiple golf courses, nightly fireworks, etc....And when you buy park passes that are longer than 4 days, the price per day starts dropping quickly. You can easily spend 7 to 10 days here.

Sure, Disney is much more expensive than a typical amusement park. It's the Cadillac of amusement park experiences. People travel from all over the world to visit this place. There are how many websites, YouTube vlogs, and message boards dedicated to this place. I dont know about you, but don't visit CedarFairBoards too often. Nor do I listen to The SixFlags Unplugged podcast during my commute.

Universal is really the only comparison. And even that isn't a great one. Universal Orlando more closely resembles Disney Land. It's a scaled down version of WDW. Good for a 3 to 5 day trip at most. Great for what it is, but its not WDW.

 

[IndyToThere]

Arguably, the second best comparison is Major League Baseball. An MLB team needs to sell a couple of million tickets every year. WDW needs to sell tens-of-millions of theme park admissions every year.

That's not a bad comparison. Reminds me of going to Boston around 10 years ago and going to Fenway to see a game. Ended up paying $80 for seats way back in the outfield for a mid-week game against the last place Orioles from Stubhub. To contrast - I can get tickets to my closer-to-home Cincy Reds for around $50 at the box office for lower level seats near the infield.

From that Boston experience I had the idea to try and buy tickets following season when tickets came out (and possibly re-sell). I couldn't get any... the demand was so high that everyone gets put in a virtual queue on ticket release day, so it becomes a lottery system.

Basically, Boston is a destination city for a number of people, and a lot of people want to visit Fenway (both fans of the Red Sox and baseball fans who want to visit a notable historic stadium). While Cincy offers a much better value in terms of baseball action to money spent, there's not many historic stadiums like that around anymore, and the Red Sox are much more popular around the country/world.

I guess in a way Disney is like that... plenty of amusement parks around, but there's only one Disney World. Combine that with the nostalgia factor, and you have a seemingly insatiable demand for WDW. Unfortunately for us, Disney execs are all too content to see how hard they can squeeze.

 

[annekablam]

WDW is 4 world class theme parks

First time posting and controversial take here, but ARE all the parks truly "world class" at this point? As someone who spent their entire childhood in the 80's and 90's dreaming of going to WDW, I was mildly disappointed in 1999 (but just barely, it did live up to its hype somewhat), and then MAJORLY disappointed by the time I returned in 2019. Animal Kingdom is the only park that I think could potentially qualify as world class due to the theming alone. When you consider the cost to enter WDW (not to mention the cuts & increases this past year), the attractions are just... not that great. Each park has a few truly decent attractions. The rest of the appeal seems to be relying upon people's nostalgia of the parks. Soon though, as those truly great years get further away, there won't be people who can lean on their memories of the Golden Years to make the present years & present cost seem worth it. Hearing that Magical Express is discontinued has truly broken the Disney bubble for a budget minded Canadian like me. But if I'm honest, walking around looking at decades old attractions (and the removal of classic ones and theming and general magic etc) for the most insanely premier price, I was already considering moving my vacation to Universal anyhow.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

First time posting and controversial take here, but ARE all the parks truly "world class" at this point?

It's just an opinion. But I am not one who grew up going to the parks as a kid. I only first went a few years ago. But since have gone several more times. In the past few years I've also been to Universal Hollywood and Canada's Wonderland several times. From my perspective, the other two aren't even in the same ball park. Fwiw, Universal Hollywood wasn't even cheaper.

When you consider the cost to enter WDW (not to mention the cuts & increases this past year), the attractions are just... not that great. Each park has a few truly decent attractions. The rest of the appeal seems to be relying upon people's nostalgia of the parks. Soon though, as those truly great years get further away, there won't be people who can lean on their memories of the Golden Years to make the present years & present cost seem worth it.

When I was referring to "World Class", I wasn't reflecting on the price. Just the quality compared to the array of other theme parks in the world. Even if you don't consider WDW parks as the single best in the world, they are definitely in that highest tier of amusement parks

Hearing that Magical Express is discontinued has truly broken the Disney bubble for a budget minded Canadian like me. But if I'm honest, walking around looking at decades old attractions (and the removal of classic ones and theming and general magic etc) for the most insanely premier price, I was already considering moving my vacation to Universal anyhow.

The problem with UO is that while it may be a bit cheaper, I don't think the price difference is significant enough to justify moving a full vacation over. There is simply not enough to do there for more than a few days. Especially if you upgrade to a deluxe hotel and get the Express Pass. It's a blessing and a curse at the same time. You will do everything in a day or two.

UO is great for people who live within a short drive of Orlando and can make a weekend out of it. Or as an add on to a Disney/Rest of Florida trip. But I just couldn't imagine flying down from Ottawa for a 7 to 10 night trip and only doing Universal.

And that's really my point about Disney. WDW is not designed for the single day visitor like other amusement parks are. That's why single day tickets are so expensive. They allow single day guests to come. But they want to pursuade them to come for more extended stays. WDW is poor value for a day/weekend trip. It is great value for a 7+ day trip.

Just for fun, I priced out a random vacation for 4 in February.

7 night stay at Pop with a 7 day park ticket. 2 adults, 2 kids. = $3682 USD = $4786 CAD

Flights on Flair Airlines Direct from Montreal to Orlando = $880 CAD total for 4.

Food = ~$70/day per person = ~$2000 USD = $2600 CAD. You can probably bring this down significantly if you do more quick service.

Uber to and from airport = ~$50 each way so $100 USD or $130 CAD.

Genie+ = 15 x 4 x 7 (probably don't need it every day, but let's just assume you do?) = $420 USD or ?$550 CAD.

Total cost is about 9k for a family of 4. That's $2250 CAD per person.

I'm not trying to suggest that is cheap. But have you looked at the price of travel elsewhere recently? I was looking at mediocre to lower end all inclusives in the Carribean, and they were in the same ball park of prices if not more. There is no way a family of 4 is spending less on a European vacation (they may if they spend next to nothing on entertainment, but thats unlikely).

Overall, WDW is not cheap. It's expensive. But it's all about perspective. If you compare a week at WDW to a 4 day camping trip locally, it's outrageous. If you compare about day trip to a 3 night stay near a local amusement park, it's very expensive. If you compare a 7 day WDW trip to a week trip at an all inclusive, it's on par. If you compare it to a 7 day trip to a major US city, it's probably on par. If you compare a 7 day WDW trip to a 14 day European vacation, it's dirt cheap.

 

[annekablam]

In the past few years I've also been to Universal Hollywood and Canada's Wonderland several times. From my perspective, the other two aren't even in the same ball park.

Well I definitely agree with you re: Canada's Wonderland. I truly miss the Paramount days when there was at least some theming there!! But that's the park filled with nostalgia for me, I grew up there

I guess what I was trying to say is that what you get for your dollar is not there or even what used to be there. But obviously that is highly subjective and just my opinion!! I didn't get to go til I was an adult myself but it was crazy how much changed (got worse imo) between 1999 and 2019. Wish more than anything i could've gone in 80's or early 90's. I literally had a sign on my door reminding me to save for Disney World for years and I can still see it in my minds eye! I ordered the 30 minute advertisement cassette direct from Florida so I could drool over all the amazing things I wanted to do. I STILL haven't gone to Blizzard Beach though!!!!! Maybe next time.

EDIT: I think the point I really wanted to get across is that, imo, Disney is still profiting and leveraging off it's hey-day. For myself, for example, I think the value is completely gone but I still want to go back at some point. Simply because just BEING at Disney fulfils the dreams of the child inside of me. I'm not so sure the kids of today are going to grow up with the same feeling.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

I'm kind of surprised so much attention gets put on the parks regarding value. I feel like the true discussion should be around cruise line as their pricing is so far out of bed their it is unreal.

First time posting and controversial take here, but ARE all the parks truly "world class" at this point? As someone who spent their entire childhood in the 80's and 90's dreaming of going to WDW, I was mildly disappointed in 1999 (but just barely, it did live up to its hype somewhat), and then MAJORLY disappointed by the time I returned in 2019. Animal Kingdom is the only park that I think could potentially qualify as world class due to the theming alone. When you consider the cost to enter WDW (not to mention the cuts & increases this past year), the attractions are just... not that great. Each park has a few truly decent attractions.

I feel they are. I've been to pretty much all of the heavy hitter competition and there are only a handful even close to WDW's level. I actually went full circle on this because I grew up going to Disney World, then took 15 years off to visit all of the major roller coaster chain's parks, and then started getting back into Disney parks around 2018. The quality, attention to detail, etc is just on another level and puts WDW above them.

I think the biggest realization I had was that outside of the 10 minutes I was on rides each day at the Six Flags/Cedar Fair/Busch parks, the experience was pretty miserable. Little to no area theming, no random encounters, queues with no entertainment in them, few parades or night time shows, etc. Your entire day is basically standing in a cattle pen queue until you get on a 30-60 second ride.

Don't get me wrong, we have Cedar Point annual passes and enjoy going there but it's just not on the level of WDW.

 

[annekablam]

I feel they are. I've been to pretty much all of the heavy hitter competition and there are only a handful even close to WDW's level. I actually went full circle on this because I grew up going to Disney World, then took 15 years off to visit all of the major roller coaster chain's parks, and then started getting back into Disney parks around 2018. The quality, attention to detail, etc is just on another level and puts WDW above them.

I think the biggest realization I had was that outside of the 10 minutes I was on rides each day at the Six Flags/Cedar Fair/Busch parks, the experience was pretty miserable. Little to no area theming, no random encounters, queues with no entertainment in them, few parades or night time shows, etc. Your entire day is basically standing in a cattle pen queue until you get on a 30-60 second ride.

Don't get me wrong, we have Cedar Point annual passes and enjoy going there but it's just not on the level of WDW.

In fairness to some of those parks though, they are more "amusement parks" than "theme parks." The only other theme park I've personally been to is Efteling in Europe which was honestly amazing and I had a much better time there than Magic Kingdom (but again, just my opinion). I am also dying to go to Tokyo Disney since I've heard it will most reflect the Disney I dreamt of as a youth.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

In fairness to some of those parks though, they are more "amusement parks" than "theme parks." The only other theme park I've personally been to is Efteling in Europe which was honestly amazing and I had a much better time there than Magic Kingdom (but again, just my opinion). I am also dying to go to Tokyo Disney since I've heard it will most reflect the Disney I dreamt of as a youth.

I think that's the point. I'm terms of true "theme" parks, there really is only a handful out there. The competition is really the local amusement park, which imo isn't really competition. Amusement parks fight for the local dollar. WDW competes for the tourism dollar

 

[annekablam]

I think that's the point. I'm terms of true "theme" parks, there really is only a handful out there. The competition is really the local amusement park, which imo isn't really competition. Amusement parks fight for the local dollar. WDW competes for the tourism dollar

That's definitely a fair point. Nevertheless, I will be planning my next trip to Orlando with Universal as the primary destination for the first time in my life. Really excited to stay at Endless Summer and check out the changes at UOR.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

It's apples and oranges. I know if I buy an entertainment ticket I'm going to get what I purchased. If I go to a Broadway show, say Cursed Child, I know the effects are going to work and that my experience will not vary much from someone going in 4 weeks. That is no longer the guarantee with Disney. Not to mention the completely different experience people are getting now compared to two years ago. The shows, the entertainment, the transportation, fastpassess, extra magic hours. The list continues to grow with the increasing price. I don't think Disney is "one of a kind" anymore. Not in the way it use to be.

 

[DLgal]

I feel like Disney has lost its focus on what made it so great in the first place. They keep trying to add "more" while diluting the experience across the board at the same time.

When I buy a concert or show ticket, I am paying a set amount of money for a very specific experience and I have a good idea of how much I will enjoy it (let's use a concert for example). I know my favorite artist will play songs I like. There will be good crowd energy. The venue will be well prepared with concessions for sale and other services. I'll have a seat, usually. I will be guaranteed probably at least 2 hours of a good time.

Buying a ticket to a Disney park, at this point, comes with a lot of unknowns. How crowded will it be? Will my favorite ride break down? Will my food be good? What about the weather? Will I encounter kind employees or cranky ones? Will there be any shows or live entertainment? Will there be other experiences that might impact my day (after hours parties or special events that close the park early). It's too much. At this point, you pay to get in and "you get what you get" and I think the lack of consistency bugs people. Someone will have a WONDERFUL time and another will have the WORST DAY EVER.

When you break it down into a spend per hour, sure Disney seems cheap. But that comes at the price of going into an unpredictable experience.

It's hard to pay full price for a family to experience one day at a Disney park not knowing how that day is going to go. It's a lot easier to pay for something like a concert performance that you KNOW you will enjoy.

 

[jimmymc]

I think the comparison to show tickets was with the new Genie+ service and how almost all entertainment industries allow you to pay more for a better experience. Just like you can buy everything from luxury boxes to nosebleed seats at a game, you can go to Disney with just a base ticket, or upgrade to park hopper, Genie+, or a VIP tour. I don't think they were comparing Disney directly to shows.

And for what it's worth, you can spend more on broadway tickets than a 3-day Disney ticket for some shows.

 

[PamNC]

all this said, and much of which I agree with - I still purchased an Incredi-pass. What can I say, it's my Happy Place.

 

[Uncle Coaster]

Personally, I think it is fair to compare Disney to any other travel or leisure activity. I’m actually not sure how I’d choose where to go without comparing them.

Whenever I am getting ready to travel I always start by coming up with a list of places I’d like to go and then budget each of those trips. They often range from WDW to a trip to a major city to trips to the beach.

For me, it’s important that I compare the Disney value to all sorts of travel options.

Edit: changed “not sure how people choose…” to “not sure how I’d choose…”.