The DIS Book Club Discussion Group: Round 3 - House Rules - CHAT JUNE 8 @ 8 P.M.

Going to get my copy tomorrow. This was #1 on my summer reading list, so I'll just start a little early!
 
I joined the book club (I think). Not good on the boards yet. I read The Help, and I loved it. I've been checking to see wut the 3rd book would be. So, I'm singing off now to download the new book to my kindle (thanx Kevin for that suggestion, luv my kindle). I don't know how to discuss the chapters tho.
 
I joined the book club (I think). Not good on the boards yet. I read The Help, and I loved it. I've been checking to see wut the 3rd book would be. So, I'm singing off now to download the new book to my kindle (thanx Kevin for that suggestion, luv my kindle). I don't know how to discuss the chapters tho.

Just start talking about them as you read along. If you go to the first post it will explaing the reading due dates and then *NikkiBell* will post discussion questions to get the board interactive. For now post thoughts for the first 3 cases which is due May 17. Hope this helps (hth).
 
Great questions!

I think having a relationship with someone who is on the spectrum could be challenging, but also rewarding. If my child brought someone home with the disorder, it would not bother me at all.

I really think that Theo is living an extraordinarily difficult life. I can't imagine being in his position. I think this is why we see him acting out in the first section of the text (Cases 1-3).
 

"My mother will tell you Jacob’s not violent, but I am living proof that she’s kidding herself" (11).

"For me, being in social situations --- whether that's school, or Thanksgiving dinner, or the line at the movies --- is like moving to Lithuania when you haven't studied Lithuanian" (19).

"It is hard for me to explain why it is so difficult to look into people's eyes. Imagine what it would be like if someone sliced your chest with a scalpel and rummaged around inside you, squeezing your heart and lungs and kidneys...The reason I choose not to look at people is that I don't think it's polite to rifle through someone's thoughts, and the eyes might as well be glass windows, they're that transparent" (63).


The more and more I read the first three cases of House Rules, the more I find myself looking through the eyes of the main characters. Emma, Theo, and Jacob have already made a big impression on us as readers. I find that I see the world through their points of view with every turn of the page and empathize with their daily struggles.

Emma's character amazes me. While I do not have children (or those with Asperger's), I have taught at least one autistic child every year for the past eight years. There was one time, in particular, that I had three in the same class. As a result, I have educated myself on not only the disorder, but also ways to help these children succeed in academics and the world around them. The fact that Emma remains so strong despite Jacob's obsessive and difficult behaviors is astounding. It most definitely can be frustrating and, even, exhausting helping a child with autism. What can be even more difficult is helping those around you understand these children. In our text, the misguided and, sometimes, cruel responses Emma receives from society are unfortunate, but she has learned to deal with them:

"He's autistic. Do you have any questions?"...I've found that anger works best. It's the electric shock they need to tear their gaze away from the train wreck...I know how to handle their morbid curiousity; it's their kindness that might break me" (10).

Despite society's stares and comments, Emma is able to cope and even get others to think about what life is like on the spectrum. In my opinion, this tells us a lot about her character. What is your impression of Emma? I recently read a news story that really hit home the message of how difficult it can be to mother a child with autism. Click here to learn about what might possibly be a real life Jacob and his mother who is fighting just like Emma.

Theo, on the otherhand, appears to be more torn in the life of living with an autistic sibling. He explains to us on page 11 that he received 24 stitches on his face and a permanent scar thanks to Jacob's outburts. I couldn't help but feel a bit of resentment on his part during this discussion. Can we blame him? He describes being knocked out of his high chair at eight months old, hit in the chin after crumpling wrapping paper at Christmas, and having to change so many of his own activities due to a meltdown. Later on, he shares a story of feeling trapped and panicked under an inflatable boat with his brother who was chatting mindlessly about dinosaurs. Theo compares the experience of growing up with his brother to that of not being able to get enough oxygen to breathe (12). Is this a bit extreme or just a sign of his frustration at the moment?

From what I have read, many of Jodi Picoult’s previous novels are written from the perspective of different characters, each taking turns to narrate a chapter or section. Why do you think Picoult favours this narrative device, considering the content and nature of her stories? Is it a successful approach to telling a story? In terms of House Rules, does it help the reader in any way?
 
I feel for Theo, he seems to be left to get on with life. The household revolves around Jacob and his needs, which I do understand it must be difficult for it to be any other way. But I wonder when did the colour days come in? Did Jacob start these very early on in his life? Would there have been no way of trying to direct Jacob a different way?


Regarding the dating question I posed, this is of some interest to me. I have worked with both kids and adults with apergs so although I dont know it all I have no problems with forming friendships with them and enjoying time together.

I posed it because my DD recently dated a young man (18) with aspergers, his 'thing' is techy stuff. Now I talked to my DD about how he may be that he may like a certain schedule etc. Anyway things went well for a couple of weeks and then because my DD wanted to go out with the girls he kicked off, at that point my DD ended the relationship, he did infact break his hand when he hit a wall. After she ended the relationship he then send suicide text to all his friends. My DD was heartbroken, she did love him but if she want it to work it would have had to have been on his terms, I struggled with this that he wanted a relationship but only wanted it his way. She remains in contact as a friend but needless to say he is somewhat fixated with her now and it does scare me. Please do not flame me this is what happened to us as a family and no I do not look at every child/adult with autism as though they are going to be the same.

Angie
 
Angie, thank you for sharing your daughter's experience with us here. I can imagine it being very difficult for individuals with Asperger's to form relationships. I am sure it is also difficult for those that are on the other side of the relationship. I think it says a lot about your daughter's character that she was able to look past it. Unfortunately, though, it did not work out which may have been for the better.

The raw emotions of any relationship are difficult enough, but are intensified for those with Asperger's. Jacob's discussion of going out with and "being in love" with Jess really showed how distorted his understanding of relationships can be. He felt that because they hung out together, shared events of their lifes with one another, etc. that it qualified as a romantic relationship. Sure, to someone who takes things as literally as an autistic child does, that makes sense. However, we all know that isn't what qualifies as romance.
 
Just came across this thread and I am subscribeing, will head over to my local Barnes and Noble today to pick up a copy of the book, hopefully I will find time to read today and be able to catch up to the reading schedule....this sounds like fun :thumbsup2
 
Angie, I could see this as an issue with my son's relationships. Even his relationship with people now is on his terms. Even though I know this it can still make what often appears as selfish behaviour hard to deal with.

While he is not to the degree of Jacob, this is something we constantly work on. Emma talks about Jacob learning Empathy much the way some one else would learn another language and that rang true for me. Friendships are difficult, dating is going to be a whole other set of issues! I think it is wonderful that your daughter not only looked past the diagnosis to begin the relationship but more importantly was strong enough to know when it had to end!

In regards to the color days, I think Jacob could have started it but it became a tool for Emma to help with routine. In the early years you are surrounded by chaos, as you start to find ways to reduce the chaos you grab on to them and eventually you have a routine/schedule that makes the day easier. I think you get so wrapped up in reducing the chaos that you are not worrying about the effects on siblings, marriage or especially self.


I feel for Theo, he seems to be left to get on with life. The household revolves around Jacob and his needs, which I do understand it must be difficult for it to be any other way. But I wonder when did the colour days come in? Did Jacob start these very early on in his life? Would there have been no way of trying to direct Jacob a different way?


Regarding the dating question I posed, this is of some interest to me. I have worked with both kids and adults with apergs so although I dont know it all I have no problems with forming friendships with them and enjoying time together.

I posed it because my DD recently dated a young man (18) with aspergers, his 'thing' is techy stuff. Now I talked to my DD about how he may be that he may like a certain schedule etc. Anyway things went well for a couple of weeks and then because my DD wanted to go out with the girls he kicked off, at that point my DD ended the relationship, he did infact break his hand when he hit a wall. After she ended the relationship he then send suicide text to all his friends. My DD was heartbroken, she did love him but if she want it to work it would have had to have been on his terms, I struggled with this that he wanted a relationship but only wanted it his way. She remains in contact as a friend but needless to say he is somewhat fixated with her now and it does scare me. Please do not flame me this is what happened to us as a family and no I do not look at every child/adult with autism as though they are going to be the same.

Angie
 
1. How would you feel if your son/daughter dated a person with aspergers?
Having a Sister-in-law with Asperger's Syndrome and recognizing the challenges, I would be concerned, however, supportive and encouraging to my child. I would be very proud that my child could see past differences and acknowledge similarities in the relationship.

2. How do feel about Theo, being a brother to Jacob also how life revolves around Jacob?
I believe that he has every right to be angry and resentful, because he has had to endure many challenges as brother to Jacob. However, I am concerned that Emma does not recognize his issues. This family should be in counseling, especially Theo, he needs to be able to express himself in a positive way. He is obviously not handling his feelings well and utilizing poor coping skills and poor decision making. I think the Oxygen statement furthers proves my point.

What is your impression of Emma?
I truly feel for her, she did not get the life that she expected nor intended to have. I was saddened that her husband left her and began a new "normal" family. I feel that she is doing her best to provide some normalcy to her family.

Narrative style:
I really enjoy her narrative style. It is nice to get the character's personal perspective, inner thoughts and detailed reactions. This works well for her in both of the books I have read thus far.

Happy Reading! :goodvibes
 
upto pg 407 text in white if you dont want spoilers:

Emma x husband seems to display autistic behavour, as any one else come to that conclusion?


BTW, I am very proud of my dd for seeing past her ex boyfriends aspers, and she is handling the situation beyond her years.
 
Per the two earlier questions posed..no big concern on the dating question as I would support my child in every way possible. Asperger's has such a range and the challenges are so different from person to person, so I think one would have to maintain an open mind and trust their child's judgment. The families I have come into contact with take such care with their child; I would hope that there would be a great deal of support on both sides...as for Theo, he's in a really tough spot and, like others have said, he is acting out and I feel the biggest reason for this is that he is isolated. Being the younger child is difficult for so many reasons, just one of which is desperately avoiding being an additional stressor for their parent(s);

My niece is the older child and while there have been tough times for her, she always experienced her "firsts" on her own. She was/is a very popular child, quite talented and very self-assured. She is great with her brother and supports him in all sorts of ways although that wasn't always the way; when they were younger it was hard for her because he would act out towards her and sometimes she would feel very hurt and lash back at him. She is unfailingly honest with him which he appreciates as not everyone is.

I know that the future brings worries and what is tough for siblings without question is the responsibilities they don't feel that they have signed up for. As they age this can become a heavy weight especially when life markers like marriage, family, success, etc...are reached or not.

This is a topic close to my heart and I really am looking forward to exploring it within the context of the book as well as the personal experiences of others who have family members with Asperger's, also with those who teach and the rest of you who will have probing questions and differing opinions.
 
Angie - thanks for sharing your story...I understand your impression and fear of the intensity that presented itself. That is for sure a concern going forward for you and for your daughter. While I always try to approach my nephew's experiences first from his gender and age to try to be fair, he does surprise us at times with how well he handles a challenge. Other times, though, it has been heartbreaking to see him devastated and I give my sister a lot of credit because the disappointments in life are heightened (for her as well) and she has a big job in picking up the pieces. Your daughter is a great gal to stay supportive and friendly and I hope that the feelings and intensity cool and become more stable real soon. In time he will so appreciate her kindness. We are so thankful for kids that reached out to my nephew early on; they really helped him develop socially and stuck by him.
 
I feel that Picoult uses the first-person narrative from different perspectives to offer up different points of view on one central theme: like a ring of people around a campfire. So far, this is working.

What isn't working, however, is the consistency of style from one person to another. Everyone seems to have the same writing style/speaking style. From the detective to Jacob. And this feels false, for some reason. In fact, I feel the change of font is the only thing that distinguishes one "voice" from another.
 
I look forward to reading this book for two reasons-

1. I love Jodi Picoult books
2. I have a soon-to-be 26 year old son with Asperger's.

I have found Jodi's books to be very intense and thought provoking. I think she's a really good writer.
 
I just wanted to say :welcome: to those of you are just joining us! We are glad to have you!
 
I have read most of Jodi Picoult's books, and I am always impressed by her technique of telling a story from many points of view. I think it makes the reader suspend judgement, and I still find myself thinking about books of hers I've read and trying to decide which characters I most empathize with.
I've read the first three cases, and I think Emma and Theo's voices are very authentic. I am a teacher, and this year I had my first experience with a student on the high functioning end of the autism spectrum. It's such a puzzle and such a challenge. I can't imagine the challenge of parenting an autistic child and the effect on the whole family. I think Theo's reactions are very true to the way any sibling of a child with special needs would respond. He's protective of his brother but also resentful of the way the whole family's life revolves around his brother's needs. I'm going to be interested to see how Picoult develops Jacob's character. Thus far, he seems more self aware and able to express himself than I would expect a boy with Aspergers to be. My experience is that one of the biggest challenges in relating to someone with autism is their inability to communicate their feelings.
On the other hand, I don't have any experience with someone as old as Jacob with AS - maybe that ability does come in time.
That would be my main concern with a child of mine having a relationship with someone with AS - could it be a fully reciprocal relationship? Would he be able to meet her needs emotionally?
I can't wait to read on!
 
I am “reading” House Rules in audio format because I do a lot of driving and it’s a good use of time in the car. I’m not sure how to relate the audio files to pages in the book or to Cases, but it looks like we’re discussing the first ¼ of the book. I apologize if I comment too far into the book.

I like Jodi Picoult’s writing style for the most part. I have read other books by her. She seems to use the same style and very similar formula for characters in many of her books so in some respects I am a bit disappointed in House Rules. The book does however present some interesting topics and the characters have some depth, which I really like. I also like that the main characters have human failings – they're not just one sided protagonists and antagonists.

I can relate to Emma and Theo more than I can to Jacob because no one in my immediate family has Asperger’s or Autism but I have dealt with special needs children. I do have a nephew with Aspergers but he was lucky in many respects – both of his parents and his 2 older brothers were (and continue to be) totally devoted to him. My nephew is 11 now and has come a long way thanks to his family’s devotion. They were no less devoted than Emma. His brothers had an easier time than Theo because they are 7 and 9 years older than their younger brother and they have both parents in the picture, so while I know it was difficult for them, they didn’t have to deal with the same difficulties as Theo.

Emma is a wonderful and devoted parent but her total devotion to Jacob plays a big role in Theo’s shortcomings. She understands that she neglects Theo and feels guilty about it when she has time but has come to terms with it for the most part. She loves Theo as much as she loves Jacob but feels Jacob needs the attention more and besides I think she feels that Theo will get by. This is a hard choice for a parent but I think it is very real. It’s hard for me to imagine how Emma got through the early years with her children. It doesn’t seem to enter Emma’s mind that her neglect of Theo could have such a negative impact on Theo’s life. I wonder what she would have done had she known what was going on with him. Emma’s relationship with Theo combined with an absent father sets Theo up for some major life challenges. He never felt the total parent attention that most babies feel. His dad was gone when he was an infant. He was expected by Emma to be the older sibling at an early age and had to give up many things youngsters around him took for granted. He feels he is neglected and he is in many respects, but Theo takes on the role his mother wants of him partly to keep Emma out of his hair and partly because he loves his mother. He feels terrible resentment towards Jacob and at the same time feels guilty for feeling the way he does towards his brother. In his pursuit of attention and to get a feeling of belonging he acts out in his own right. I can't help but wonder if he wants to get caught. He knows he is wrong and while my heart goes out to him, you can’t excuse his actions. I really like Theo’s character a lot and feel his character development is very realistic.

I find myself seeing each of the main characters – Emma, Theo and Jacob all teetering on the edge of getting pushed to a point of no return and because their lives are so intertwined, if one were to fall or get pushed over the edge I can’t help but wonder if it would push the other two over as well.

Elaine
 
I have read most of Jodi Picoult's books, and I am always impressed by her technique of telling a story from many points of view. I think it makes the reader suspend judgement, and I still find myself thinking about books of hers I've read and trying to decide which characters I most empathize with.
I've read the first three cases, and I think Emma and Theo's voices are very authentic. I am a teacher, and this year I had my first experience with a student on the high functioning end of the autism spectrum. It's such a puzzle and such a challenge. I can't imagine the challenge of parenting an autistic child and the effect on the whole family. I think Theo's reactions are very true to the way any sibling of a child with special needs would respond. He's protective of his brother but also resentful of the way the whole family's life revolves around his brother's needs. I'm going to be interested to see how Picoult develops Jacob's character. Thus far, he seems more self aware and able to express himself than I would expect a boy with Aspergers to be. My experience is that one of the biggest challenges in relating to someone with autism is their inability to communicate their feelings.
On the other hand, I don't have any experience with someone as old as Jacob with AS - maybe that ability does come in time.
That would be my main concern with a child of mine having a relationship with someone with AS - could it be a fully reciprocal relationship? Would he be able to meet her needs emotionally?
I can't wait to read on!

Because of House Rules, I am very excited to read other Jodi Picoult books. I am absolutely 100% in love with ther narrative technique she uses. The fact that we are able to hear the same story told from a wide variety of characters is incredible. I couldn't enjoy that more.

I agree that Theo's reaction seem right on par with any sibling of an autistic child. I am concerned about him though. His breaking into the house really raised a red flag. You could tell he just wanted normalcy as he made the cup of tea for himself. I am hoping he learns to manage his emotions better as we move forward.

Jacob's ability to understand that he is different and even refer to terms like autism and Asperger's surprises me. All of my students are somewhat young (fiffth grade), so I never had the experience of working with a child who knew he had this disorder. I find it refreshing and strange all at the same time.

Emma is a wonderful and devoted parent but her total devotion to Jacob plays a big role in Theo’s shortcomings. She understands that she neglects Theo and feels guilty about it when she has time but has come to terms with it for the most part. She loves Theo as much as she loves Jacob but feels Jacob needs the attention more and besides I think she feels that Theo will get by. This is a hard choice for a parent but I think it is very real. It’s hard for me to imagine how Emma got through the early years with her children. It doesn’t seem to enter Emma’s mind that her neglect of Theo could have such a negative impact on Theo’s life. I wonder what she would have done had she known what was going on with him. Emma’s relationship with Theo combined with an absent father sets Theo up for some major life challenges. He never felt the total parent attention that most babies feel. His dad was gone when he was an infant. He was expected by Emma to be the older sibling at an early age and had to give up many things youngsters around him took for granted. He feels he is neglected and he is in many respects, but Theo takes on the role his mother wants of him partly to keep Emma out of his hair and partly because he loves his mother. He feels terrible resentment towards Jacob and at the same time feels guilty for feeling the way he does towards his brother. In his pursuit of attention and to get a feeling of belonging he acts out in his own right. I can't help but wonder if he wants to get caught. He knows he is wrong and while my heart goes out to him, you can’t excuse his actions. I really like Theo’s character a lot and feel his character development is very realistic.

I find myself seeing each of the main characters – Emma, Theo and Jacob all teetering on the edge of getting pushed to a point of no return and because their lives are so intertwined, if one were to fall or get pushed over the edge I can’t help but wonder if it would push the other two over as well.

Elaine

I worry about them, too, Elaine. Emma can only take so much, and Theo is on the cusp of a major meltdown himself. Here's hoping we'll see what happens in future sections.
 
I am way ahead of schedule as in finished the book. To answer the questions...
My opinion of Emma is that she has tried to make life for Jacob as "normal" as possible. I think that this has only dwarfed Jacob in his social situations entirely. I can only imagine what Emma is going through. She is a single mother that is looking for a male counterpart to help her with the boys.

At the time that the 3rd case ends Theo seems to be confused and not wanting to give up any information that he might have and knows that Jacob will forego any information before Theo does. Jacob, is a little to proud of his ability to set up a crime scene.

Personally, my favorite character is Jacob. I love his subtleness regardless if he has Aspergers or not. So far, Kudos.

Regarding the writing style, I love it! I have mentioned in a previous post that I felt that it gives the reader the ability to differentiate between the characters. I think the author favors this writing asshe does in most of her other books because it is something different and the reader has a change of scenery, so to speak.
 


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