The Cheating Culture

[bicker]

It continually amazes me how vigorously some folks defend cheating, such as violating Disney's rule against using child meal entitlements for adult meals. I found this book which I think will shed some interesting light on what's really going on . . .

. . . available evidence strongly sug-
gests that Americans are not only cheating more in many areas but
are also feeling less guilty about it.When “everybody does it,” or
imagines that everybody does it, a cheating culture has emerged.
Yet why all the cheating, and why now?

. . .

. . . America’s watchdogs of virtue have been largely silent
about the new epidemic of cheating.To be sure, rampant cheating
by students has begun to receive attention in the past several years.
And the recent corporate scandals induced a media feeding frenzy.
There have also been big stories about cheating by athletes, or tax
evasion, or plagiarism by journalists. Still, there’s been very little effort
to connect all these dots and see them for what they represent:
a profound moral crisis that reflects deep economic and social
problems in American society.

. . .

. . . Cheating is everywhere. By cheating
I mean breaking the rules to get ahead academically, professionally,
or financially. Some of this cheating involves violating the
law; some does not. Either way, most of it is by people who, on the
whole, view themselves as upstanding members of society. Again
and again, Americans who wouldn’t so much as shoplift a pack of
chewing gum are committing felonies at tax time, betraying the
trust of their patients, misleading investors, ripping off their insurance
company, or lying to their clients.

. . .

. . . What happens when you’re an ordinary
middle-class person struggling to make ends meet even as
you face relentless pressures to emulate the good life you see every
day on TV and in magazines? What happens when you think the
system is stacked against people like you and you stop believing
that the rules are fair? You just might make up your own moral
code.

. . .

. . . And a real conversation about cheating is exactly what we need
right now.Widespread cheating is undermining some of the most
important ideals of American society. The principle of equal opportunity
is subverted when those who play by the rules are beaten
out by cheaters, as happens every day in academics, sports, business,
and other arenas.The belief that hard work is the key to success
is mocked when people see, constantly, that success comes
faster to those who cut corners.

Powerful stuff.

I just ordered this book. I'll be reading it as soon as it arrives, and hope anyone else interested will participate in a book-club-like discussion of the issues raised by the book.

 

[monkeyboy]

I got cheated on once

 

[Lanshark]

Bicker,

People defending cheating are looking for justification for their actions. Many times people will post about "cheating". I've never figured that one out. The pattern is always the same. First they post that they are cheating and ask if everyone thinks it's ok. Usually other cheaters will post and say they are doing nothing wrong. Those are the enablers. They're the ones the cheater wants to post.

Next you'll get the morally superiors saying that cheating is wrong. A bunch of morally superiors will then jump on the cheater. Pretty soon the cheater's sycophants will jump on the morally superior posters defending the cheater's right to cheat.

Here's where the tables are turned. The cheater becomes the victim. The morally superiors become the bad guys and the cheater has received his justification.

People might actually listen to the morally superiors except they're so darned arrogant.

End of my analysis

 

[bicker]

It should be a very interesting book.

 

[Darian]

I think the 10 Commandments have something to say about all that. Since it is now unconstitutional to teach our children that lying, stealing and cheating are wrong, well, I'm not surprised by the devolution of our society. The value of a human life has been degraded as well.

If a person believes that we are just evolved animals, then behaving like animals only follows and should come as no surprise. Take things by force, kill when it's convenient, do whatever pleases themselves. Animals have no moral sense. A lion would hunt a species to extinction with no remorse. Killer whales are known to kill just for sport and not eat what they have slaughtered. Hmmm just like some humans in that regard.

Without the concept of absolute truth about what is and is not acceptable behavior, our society will continue to devolve into chaos and violence. The proposition that all men are created equal will give way to the strong and the wealthy can do and take what they want.

You can thank the "worst generation" - the hippies and yippies and other 60's radicals for discarding the best aspects of our culture and embracing treason, selfishness, cowardice and social changes which eliminated personal accountability, duty to one's country and fellow man as well as any sort of moral responsiblity for their own actions. Yes, even the lack of courtesy in our present time can be laid at their feet. Yes, the 60's were a dark and evil blotch on the history of the world. That is the legacy of the 60's.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Bicker,

People defending cheating are looking for justification for their actions. Many times people will post about "cheating". I've never figured that one out. The pattern is always the same. First they post that they are cheating and ask if everyone thinks it's ok. Usually other cheaters will post and say they are doing nothing wrong. Those are the enablers. They're the ones the cheater wants to post.

Next you'll get the morally superiors saying that cheating is wrong. A bunch of morally superiors will then jump on the cheater. Pretty soon the cheater's sycophants will jump on the morally superior posters defending the cheater's right to cheat.

Here's where the tables are turned. The cheater becomes the victim. The morally superiors become the bad guys and the cheater has received his justification.

People might actually listen to the morally superiors except they're so darned arrogant.

End of my analysis

I think dividing posters into "cheaters" and "morally superior" sounds like you already made some decisions about them. I don't think that it's always so black and white. I've seen plenty of people post reasonable questions or statements trying to get others to see their POV without being arrogant, and those posts are ignored when someone else makes a dramatic over the top extreme remark (either for or against the particular situation). I think it's more "fun" for some people to reply to the extreme POV's than the reasonable ones, you know?

As far as a cheating culture, there is no denying that it has become much more prevalent in recent years. People cheat more often in relationships, in jobs, in school, everywhere- but here's what surprises me: how people are shocked when others are offended when they are caught! I think part of this problem is because when cheating is overlooked, cheaters will continue to do it until it becomes surprising to get caught.

Here's an example: a student in the high school at which I teach (sister of one of my students) was a senior. Her family helped her with her homework, but tests were very difficult. Her teacher was quite old and didn't notice some of the little things she would do to cheat occasionally. She was quiet and she slipped through. Until . . . it is final exam day. She is more blatant this time and actually has a piece of paper on her desk. The proctor catches her. She receives a zero on her final exam. She is now failing that class for the year. She is now not graduating. She is thus not able to take a remedial class necessary for enrolling in community college. Suddenly, one "cheat" later, she is enrolled in high school summer school, not graduating and has to wait another *year* to start comunity college. She was hysterical. Her parents were hysterical. Her brother was hysterical. The teacher, principal and guidance counselor all told her this is what happens, she made a mistake and has to deal with the consequences. They saw me in the hallway and started crying and begging to me. I'm not her teacher, there's nothing I can do, but they were still looking for an "out", a way to cheat the school system to allow that cheat to be ignored, hoping that I could help somehow. They didn't learn the lesson, sadly. I hope it "clicks" eventually because the lessons only get harder to learn as you get older.

I truly believe that overlooking cheating simply enables it and that it hurts everyone in the long run, including the cheater. It is extremely difficult to be honest and forthright in a culture that seems to show more respect for those who work loopholes than those who are honest.

Bicker- here's two shirts many students in my school have worn this year:

"It's only cheating if you get caught"

and

"Stop snitching"

Cheating is becoming part of the culture- almost like you are the "dumb" one for following the rules and you are "judgmental" if you call the cheaters on it ("snitch"). I know lots of kids who reported cheaters to teachers and were so worked up about it, and felt so terrible. When a child reported cheating to me, I told them that they did the right thing because they may have saved this person from making a bigger mistake (cheating on income taxes, shoplifting, etc.) if they learned a lesson today.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Not true. I am a teacher and I am required to teach THREE "Character Education" lessons a year and describe them in an essay, include my lesson plans and send them to a director in the school. Yes, I teach in public school. We are not allowed to proselytize, teach religion, show favoritism to certain religious beliefs, etc. However, teaching children the consequences of lying, stealing and cheating is perfectly acceptable and encouraged by many schools. In fact, my boss laminated a poster explaining "Academic Integrity" and asked all teachers to post it in their rooms. Mine's prominently displayed.

My character lessons this year were on:

Acceptance of others (different colors, religions, etc.)

Self sacrifice (giving up something you want, or even your own safety, for someone else)

and

Choosing between what you think is right and what you are told to do (by a friend, a law, a promise, etc.)

While we have a long way to go, this is certainly not unconstitutional- it's a requirement for us.

I think the 10 Commandments have something to say about all that. Since it is now unconstitutional to teach our children that lying, stealing and cheating are wrong, well, I'm not surprised by the devolution of our society. The value of a human life has been degraded as well.

If a person believes that we are just evolved animals, then behaving like animals only follows and should come as no surprise. Take things by force, kill when it's convenient, do whatever pleases themselves. Animals have no moral sense. A lion would hunt a species to extinction with no remorse. Killer whales are known to kill just for sport and not eat what they have slaughtered. Hmmm just like some humans in that regard.

Without the concept of absolute truth about what is and is not acceptable behavior, our society will continue to devolve into chaos and violence. The proposition that all men are created equal will give way to the strong and the wealthy can do and take what they want.

You can thank the "worst generation" - the hippies and yippies and other 60's radicals for discarding the best aspects of our culture and embracing treason, selfishness, cowardice and social changes which eliminated personal accountability, duty to one's country and fellow man as well as any sort of moral responsiblity for their own actions. Yes, even the lack of courtesy in our present time can be laid at their feet. Yes, the 60's were a dark and evil blotch on the history of the world. That is the legacy of the 60's.

 

[bicker]

I think the 10 Commandments have something to say about all that.

How would you explain the fact that there have been many honorable cultures where Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., were/are the predominent belief systems?

Without the concept of absolute truth about what is and is not acceptable behavior, our society will continue to devolve into chaos and violence.

Unfortunately, absolute truth won't help, since each candidate for absolute truth has its own set of unacceptable beliefs for a significant portion of people. The choice between oppression and honor, or freedom and dishonor, is no choice at all. There is no reason to believe that there cannot be a society where people of different beliefs can live in peace with each other, and live honorable lives.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

How would you explain the fact that there have been many honorable cultures where Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., were/are the predominent belief systems?

Unfortunately, absolute truth won't help, since each candidate for absolute truth has its own set of unacceptable beliefs for a significant portion of people. The choice between oppression and honor, or freedom and dishonor, is no choice at all. There is no reason to believe that there cannot be a society where people of different beliefs can live in peace with each other, and live honorable lives.

Agreed. There is only one belief that needs to be shared- and the majority of religions already state it- respect all people and treat them as your would like to be treated. Yet, there are wars, killings and families disowning others in the name of religion. If we are all respectful of others personal spiritual journeys, we can have peace with different beliefs about other things.

Side question- your beliefs are very similar to mine. I am Unitarian Universalist, but don't know a whole lot about Pantheism- can you send me a high quality link or PM sometime?

Thanks!

 

[mickman1962]

The problem with the book is that the people who really need it don't know it as they don't think of themselves in that light.

 

[pigletz]

It is not unconstitutional to teach kids that lying, cheating and stealing are wrong. No, I can't post the ten commandments in my room nor can I refer to them when teaching but I can teach that these things are wrong. As a matter of fact these things come up way too many times for my liking. It is ultimately the parents responsibility to teach their children values not the school's. Unfortunatly, the responsibility often falls on the teacher. Like a previous poster I have had countless situations where students were caught cheating and when faced with the consequences the parents have come up to try to find a way to further cheat the system.

 

[bicker]

Here's the statement of beliefs for Pantheism:

http://www.pantheism.net/manifest.htm

Here's a good link that explains the belief system:

http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/basicpri.htm

Here's a great reading, written in 1920, which is one of the fundamental tenets:

http://www.pantheist.net/society/devotion_to_truth.html

 

[Galahad]

How would you explain the fact that there have been many honorable cultures where Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., were/are the predominent belief systems?

The Bible uses many ways to describe honorable behavior including the ten commandments. The Hindu vedas also use several ways to describe honorable behavior. I didn't read exclusivity into his/her comment.

 

[taximomfor4]

I for one would love to discuss the book. In between semesters, lol.

Bicker, I can definitely see what led you to start your "research." I hear and read some things and just shake my head. I guess I have been sporting rose-colored glasses and hoping I was just becoming like all the older generations before me...thinking "What is this world coming to?"

I do know that everyone's integrity and moral fibers are sometimes challenged. For example, my middle daughter needs a GAC at WDW. I went on a adults trip with my stepmother last December, and stepmom BEGGED me to get a GAC for us (for no reason as DD was not with us.) My conscience told me it wasn't right. We went without, as we should have.

As far as the adult-child thing, last August we could have gotten the DDP (paid, though since the Free started after we had to return home). We would be in 2 rooms (6 of us). I had an AP, could instead get an AP discount. I learned from the DISBoards how I could REALLY play the system. I thought about it, planned it out, discussed with DH. Almost decided to JUST DO IT! But it didn't feel right, I knew it really wasn't right. I would have felt like I was cheating. Would I have been? According to some, yes. According to some, no. To me, it felt like Cheating, as it was certainly not what was intended. I didn't do it. I don't speak for others' consciences, but I am very curious what insight that book might give.

I can certainly say that most (all?) of us are sometimes NOT up to that challenge. Personally, if I ignored my conscience in a certain Integrity Challenge, I would keep silent about it.

 

[disney4us2002]

Bicker,

People defending cheating are looking for justification for their actions. Many times people will post about "cheating". I've never figured that one out. The pattern is always the same. First they post that they are cheating and ask if everyone thinks it's ok. Usually other cheaters will post and say they are doing nothing wrong. Those are the enablers. They're the ones the cheater wants to post.

Next you'll get the morally superiors saying that cheating is wrong. A bunch of morally superiors will then jump on the cheater. Pretty soon the cheater's sycophants will jump on the morally superior posters defending the cheater's right to cheat.

Here's where the tables are turned. The cheater becomes the victim. The morally superiors become the bad guys and the cheater has received his justification.

People might actually listen to the morally superiors except they're so darned arrogant.

End of my analysis

Exactly. A recent example of this occured in the "neighbor's night out" thread.

 

[taximomfor4]

Exactly. A recent example of this occured in the "neighbor's night out" thread.

OOOOH! And to think I skipped that one. I have gotten pretty good at finding any thread with more than 5 pages....that is my cue that it got kinda ugly. Makes for good reading, between microbiology chapters.

 

[simpilotswife]

I think the 10 Commandments have something to say about all that. Since it is now unconstitutional to teach our children that lying, stealing and cheating are wrong, well, I'm not surprised by the devolution of our society. The value of a human life has been degraded as well.

Wow!! Teaching my children values is unconstitutional? Since when?

If a person believes that we are just evolved animals, then behaving like animals only follows and should come as no surprise. Take things by force, kill when it's convenient, do whatever pleases themselves. Animals have no moral sense. A lion would hunt a species to extinction with no remorse. Killer whales are known to kill just for sport and not eat what they have slaughtered. Hmmm just like some humans in that regard.

We are evolved animals no? Or was Darwin wrong about that?

Without the concept of absolute truth about what is and is not acceptable behavior, our society will continue to devolve into chaos and violence. The proposition that all men are created equal will give way to the strong and the wealthy can do and take what they want.

They already do or haven't you been paying attention at the gas pump.

You can thank the "worst generation" - the hippies and yippies and other 60's radicals for discarding the best aspects of our culture and embracing treason, selfishness, cowardice and social changes which eliminated personal accountability, duty to one's country and fellow man as well as any sort of moral responsiblity for their own actions. Yes, even the lack of courtesy in our present time can be laid at their feet. Yes, the 60's were a dark and evil blotch on the history of the world. That is the legacy of the 60's.

This is a load of manure. The 60's just brought it all to light. If you think that people were good and pure before that, think again. Contrary to popular opinion, Leave It To Beaver was just a TV show.

 

[bicker]

The Bible uses many ways to describe honorable behavior including the ten commandments. The Hindu vedas also use several ways to describe honorable behavior. I didn't read exclusivity into his/her comment.

It surely is worth getting a clarification, especially since the "10 Commandments" tend to be considered exclusively part of the Judeo-Christian belief system. I know that Pantheists don't venerate the 10 Commandments, specifically. There are fundamental aspects of my beliefs that are totally ignored by the 10 Commandments, and aspects of the 10 Commandments which place what I believe are undue focus on those aspects.

 

[bicker]

I have gotten pretty good at finding any thread with more than 5 pages....that is my cue that it got kinda ugly.

With minor exception, I rarely stick with a thread past Page 4 or Page 5.

I suspect this thread will be one of the exceptions.

 

[DIXIEDIVAMOM]

This is exactly why Disney has to keep changing things ie tickets, meal plans etc. There is a cheating minority that does enough damange that what use to work as intended no longer works. On my last trip I saw a woman with Hotel mugs from different resorts filling up at my resort. One was from the 25th anniversary! The cashiers never said a word and when I looked at her she just got defensive like what was wrong with this. I know what you mean in school as I am a substitute teacher and I always have to give a lecture before a test on the price of cheating.